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# Hazard Point of Entry- Does "estimate" mean "average" of likely entry points? - Page 3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville

It's certainly all right for the player to say that he thought that the ball crossed between pine tree A and oak tree B. We then can, in good faith, "estimate" a crossing point. I can say that in my years as a Rules Official I have never had a player say that the ball might have gone in over here near pine tree A or maybe it went in over there near oak tree B so how about we split the difference? No one is that clueless.

So I guess you have never encountered an irregularly shaped hazard like the one Fourputt described, or in my case, lost sight of a ball while it was travelling PARALLEL to the hazard.  The reason I said it could be point A or point B (or in between) was that points A and B stuck out a bit so if my ball that was travelling parallel to the hazard when we lost sight of it and took a slight kick to the left, then it would have entered either at A or B with a harder (unseen) kick to the left needed for it to enter in between the points.

I have less than 20/20 vision (even with contacts), but I am not stupid.  Sure, I could say that it went in at point B and call it a day, but that wouldn't be honest.  Prior to searching, I was very hopeful that the ball was NOT in the hazard, so how can I then turn around and say it MUST have gone in at point B?  Uncertainty of the entry point seems pretty natural to me given that the ball was travelling PARALLEL to the hazard when we lost sight of it- being that the ground is pretty flat, how would you deduce the entry point?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big C

Apparently, some here disagree, but your description meets the definition of "virtual certainty," at least from my standpoint. Assuming I had done a thorough search of the area surrounding the hazard, I would consider it a lateral drop and not think twice about it.

As to the actual spot, if I were in your shoes, I would probably assume (based on my playing partners' assessment) that the ball had kicked left after the second cart path bounce. I would ask him to identify where that spot was and would proceed as if the ball had kicked 90 degrees left from that location, dropping accordingly.

I like your thinking, but have a couple of problems-

1.  This is a flat hole with no trees, so it makes it hard to get perspective, especially when a ball is travelling parallel to the hazard.  I failed to ask him where he lost sight of the ball, but I have a pretty good idea of how far I hit the ball, so I think that does narrow it down just about as much.

2.  I highly doubt the ball would bounce straight and then take a 90 degree kick...much more likely for it to take a slight or moderate kick towards the hazard as there is really nothing in the area to cause a complete left turn for a ball that had been bouncing straight forward.

Of course, if I had adopted your methodology, at least our NC rules official wouldn't think I was clueless...

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