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How do you deal with the 'Gimme' players? - Page 7

post #109 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

 

It's just as fast for me to tap it in as it is for someone else to walk over and hit it back to me.

 

I doubt that very much, taking into account you would have to rake the bunker and fetch your putter while the others are already there with theirs.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

 

I don't really understand your resistance to this.  You are the one who is always questioning any deviations from the rules.

 

I resist everything that promotes slow play and this is definitively one of those things. I mean, your handicap system (USGA) specifically allows gimmies while ours (EGA) does not, so I do not see any point in being so fixed to a principle.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

 

I like to finish the hole myself as the rules require, thank you.

 

That is your right, for sure. In our group you would have that right only in a competition...

post #110 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsgolfer View Post
 

 

Not sure how taking a gimme implies cheating in a non-tournament round   If you actually look at the rules, they are all about the competition (competitors).  Cheating means to break a rule or law usually to gain an advantage at something; to take something from (someone) by lying or breaking a rule; to violate rules dishonestly.  Taking a gimme putt does none of those things, you gain no advantage during a non-tournament round, other than a vanity handicap, you certainly haven't taken anything from someone else, and are you really dishonest taking a gimme putt?  The opposite would be cheating to me, you have a 2 foot putt, you don't even try to make it to arbitrarily inflate your handicap by posting a higher score.

 

Last I looked, playing on the weekend is not a competition. Competition is "the act or process of trying to get or win something".  Again, weekend duffer round is not that.

 

So in my mind if you have a 12 inch putt of which you would make 55 out of 100 (more than half for the non-mathematical folks), you would have to take that score if you didn't putt it, as you would be likely to make it half the time. Seriously, you're supposed to post a score when you play at least 13 holes, you need to take par plus your handicap for the remaining holes. And you have equitable strokes for different handicaps, so if you could only take a double max and you're hitting your 8th shot do you continue to play? You even have to post a score in a tournament if you'tr disqualified if it's still an acceptable scorecard, see unacceptable scores above.

 

Cheating hardly. Only cheating if you don't hole out in a competitions and if it floats your boat to putt out ever putt, no matter how close, more power to you.

 

 

All very well stated.  And holing out is not the badge of a legitimate low handicap golfer like some seem to think here.This past year, my buddy and a hooked up with a +2 who had once played really high level competitive golf. He soon became a regular part of our weekend group and we noticed he picked up almost any time he was within a couple of feet. After a few rounds of watching us he started conceding putts, at first prefacing it by saying 'it's more than likely than not you would make that".

post #111 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by flopster View Post


And besides could someone else rake the trap for this player so he could walk up and tap it in or someone else mark it for him?

Scenario: I knock my bunker shot 1/2" from the hole.

Per your recommendation, my 2 possible responses are:

1: "Hey, Joe, why don't you rake that bunker for me while I get my putter and tap that bad boy in." Or
2. "Hey, Joe, mark that one for me while I rake this trap.

I must play with jerks, because if I said #1, I'd probably get a big f-off thrown back to me. If I said #2, everyone would roll their eyes, mark my ball, putt out their own balls, and head to the next tee while I was replacing mine and putting out. On top of that, I'm sure I'd risk becoming "that guy" that no one wants to be grouped with.

Jsgolfers post (#108) seems spot on to me.

Personally, I don't have an issue with someone wanting to putt EVERYTHING out. But to say that all others are cheating... really?
post #112 of 159

I tell people I am playing with that I keep an official handicap and will putt out.  They seem fine with it.  If others want to give putts to each other, I have no issue.  I don't play match play very often.

post #113 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post
 

I tell people I am playing with that I keep an official handicap and will putt out.  They seem fine with it.  If others want to give putts to each other, I have no issue.  I don't play match play very often.

 

The reaction in my group would be a resounding SO????? It's already been established in this thread that you don't have to hole everything out to maintain a legitimate official handicap.

post #114 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by boil3rmak3r View Post


Scenario: I knock my bunker shot 1/2" from the hole.

Per your recommendation, my 2 possible responses are:

1: "Hey, Joe, why don't you rake that bunker for me while I get my putter and tap that bad boy in." Or
2. "Hey, Joe, mark that one for me while I rake this trap.

I must play with jerks, because if I said #1, I'd probably get a big f-off thrown back to me. If I said #2, everyone would roll their eyes, mark my ball, putt out their own balls, and head to the next tee while I was replacing mine and putting out. On top of that, I'm sure I'd risk becoming "that guy" that no one wants to be grouped with.

Jsgolfers post (#108) seems spot on to me.

Personally, I don't have an issue with someone wanting to putt EVERYTHING out. But to say that all others are cheating... really?

Agree again, I don't have an issue with someone wanting to putt everything out. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post
 

I tell people I am playing with that I keep an official handicap and will putt out.  They seem fine with it.  If others want to give putts to each other, I have no issue.  I don't play match play very often.

Just because you take a gimme putt doesn't mean that you're handicap is not official, no matter what other people say.  

post #115 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvisliveson View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post
 

I tell people I am playing with that I keep an official handicap and will putt out.  They seem fine with it.  If others want to give putts to each other, I have no issue.  I don't play match play very often.

 

The reaction in my group would be a resounding SO????? It's already been established in this thread that you don't have to hole everything out to maintain a legitimate official handicap.

 

You are only allowed 5 holes which have not been finished or otherwise not played under the Rules of Golf.  You guys act like the handicap rules allow 18 gimmes per round - it just ain't so.  Are you counting them as you go to make sure that you are playing a legitimate round?  

 

I seriously doubt that any of us is so stupid as to stick doggedly to something when it is likely to delay play, but what this has become is a debate about gimme's in general, not the exceedingly rare case of hitting a bunker shot close.  If you  are so good that you hit a bunker blast into gimme range more than once every 5 rounds, then I applaud your expertise.  Most of us casual players probably can't even remember the last time it happened - I know I can't.  I'm betting that this is just about as rare as hitting your drive into a fairway divot hole, and just as much ado about nothing.  By far the greatest percentage of our tap-in putts will be the second (most often), or third (hopefully not very often), putt.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by boil3rmak3r View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by flopster View Post


And besides could someone else rake the trap for this player so he could walk up and tap it in or someone else mark it for him?

Scenario: I knock my bunker shot 1/2" from the hole.

Per your recommendation, my 2 possible responses are:

1: "Hey, Joe, why don't you rake that bunker for me while I get my putter and tap that bad boy in." Or
2. "Hey, Joe, mark that one for me while I rake this trap.

I must play with jerks, because if I said #1, I'd probably get a big f-off thrown back to me. If I said #2, everyone would roll their eyes, mark my ball, putt out their own balls, and head to the next tee while I was replacing mine and putting out. On top of that, I'm sure I'd risk becoming "that guy" that no one wants to be grouped with.

Jsgolfers post (#108) seems spot on to me.

Personally, I don't have an issue with someone wanting to putt EVERYTHING out. But to say that all others are cheating... really?

 

I will putt out 99.9% of the time without slowing anyone down or pissing anyone off.  I don't play with the type of person who would not be willing to rake a bunker while I continue play.  In fact it's a pretty common practice with the guys I play with.  When one of my friends stuffs a blast short of the green into the rough, or thins it over the green, I'll immediately offer to rake while he continues play.  Same if he hits it inside of 2 feet and wants to finish it out himself (I feel the same about sandies as most guys feel about birdies - it's a nice feeling to hear them hit the bottom of the hole).  It really doesn't take any longer for me to rake while he putts, then I get ready for my putt while one of the other guys is putting.  If I ever got the sort of reaction you posted here, it would be the last time I ever played with that guy, because yes, he is a jerk.  

post #116 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

 

You are only allowed 5 holes which have not been finished or otherwise not played under the Rules of Golf.  You guys act like the handicap rules allow 18 gimmes per round - it just ain't so.  Are you counting them as you go to make sure that you are playing a legitimate round?

 

 

 

 

Taken from jsgolfer's post:

 

Under 4-1 of the Handicap Manual

 

Unfinished Holes and Conceded Strokes

A player who starts, but does not complete a hole or is conceded a stroke must record for handicap purposes the most likely score. The most likely score may not exceed the player's Equitable Stroke Control limit, defined in Section 4-3. This most likely score should be preceded by an "X." (See Decision 4-1/1.)

There is no limit to the number of unfinished holes a player may have in a round, provided that failure to finish is not for the purpose of handicap manipulation.

post #117 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by boil3rmak3r View Post


Scenario: I knock my bunker shot 1/2" from the hole.

Per your recommendation, my 2 possible responses are:

1: "Hey, Joe, why don't you rake that bunker for me while I get my putter and tap that bad boy in." Or
2. "Hey, Joe, mark that one for me while I rake this trap.

 

 

Just grab your putter (which you had thoughtfully brought from the cart with you), go to the hole and tap in. Then go back and rake the bunker while others are putting out. There are ways and it will still not slow the whole course down. But as I said, I could not care about others.

post #118 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignorant View Post
 

 

That is your right, for sure. In our group you would have that right only in a competition...

 

That is your privilege in group 1. Some others are still returning EDS outside competitions.

post #119 of 159
Quote:
~~ I don't play with the type of person who would not be willing to rake a bunker while I continue play. In fact it's a pretty common practice with the guys I play with. When one of my friends stuffs a blast short of the green into the rough, or thins it over the green, I'll immediately offer to rake while he continues play. Same if he hits it inside of 2 feet and wants to finish it out himself (I feel the same about sandies as most guys feel about birdies - it's a nice feeling to hear them hit the bottom of the hole). It really doesn't take any longer for me to rake while he putts, then I get ready for my putt while one of the other guys is putting.
 

THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

These are the types of etiquette habits that speed up play, too often I see a guy do exactly opposite of what he says and  just stands around watching the poor guy struggle instead of offering help not only to their playing partner but keeping the pace moving for the people behind. As far as the 1/2" tap in I don't care if you want to give it and if you want to contend it's to keep pace of play moving that's fine also, I just know a couple weeks ago I stuck a wedge from 84 yards 4" from the cup and nobody in my group said that's good, I'll admit it's a newer thing for me because I was once someone who would give and take putts from close distances that I even knew where not "automatic" but after playing the game correctly for some time now I can without doubt say that is my score when I post it.

post #120 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by boil3rmak3r View Post

I asked in an earlier post if anyone would not allow a "gimme" if a ball is left just 1/2" from the cup. Nobody answered. I'd be interested to know if anyone wouldn't be ok with a gimme in that situation (i'm talking about a non-tournament round where the golfer will post his score for handicap purposes).

IMO, that's taking things a bit far for a number of reasons:

1: How many times will the worst of the worst putters miss that putt???
2: It really could slow your group down. What if that shot came from the green side bunker and you are insistent on tapping it in? Everyone has to wait to putt while you rake the trap, get your putter, and get to your ball for that tap in.
3: People have said that tapping these in doesn't add time to the round and they can do so without stepping on someone else's line. How do they do this? By quickly approaching the shot and hitting the putt with one hand on the club and their feet straddling all the different lines they need to avoid. So, they are basically compromising every aspect of the fundamentals of putting for this stroke. In essence, they aren't giving their best effort at making the putt. If they should miss using this style, I'd say that was sandbagging.

 

If you have to contrive a situation that hardly ever happens, 1/2" from the hole after a bunker shot, to make your point the weakness of your case just gets revealed.  99+% of putts inside of a foot are the result of lag putts, where it is simple and quick to just putt out.  

post #121 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvisliveson View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

 

You are only allowed 5 holes which have not been finished or otherwise not played under the Rules of Golf.  You guys act like the handicap rules allow 18 gimmes per round - it just ain't so.  Are you counting them as you go to make sure that you are playing a legitimate round?

 

 

 

 

Taken from jsgolfer's post:

 

Under 4-1 of the Handicap Manual

 

Unfinished Holes and Conceded Strokes

A player who starts, but does not complete a hole or is conceded a stroke must record for handicap purposes the most likely score. The most likely score may not exceed the player's Equitable Stroke Control limit, defined in Section 4-3. This most likely score should be preceded by an "X." (See Decision 4-1/1.)

There is no limit to the number of unfinished holes a player may have in a round, provided that failure to finish is not for the purpose of handicap manipulation.

 

That was my mistake, I was thinking of unplayed holes, or holes not played by the rules, rather than unfinished holes.  I shouldn't post while prepping the stuff for dinner tonight for dinner guests.  

post #122 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvisliveson View Post
 

 

Taken from jsgolfer's post:

 

Under 4-1 of the Handicap Manual

 

Unfinished Holes and Conceded Strokes

A player who starts, but does not complete a hole or is conceded a stroke must record for handicap purposes the most likely score. The most likely score may not exceed the player's Equitable Stroke Control limit, defined in Section 4-3. This most likely score should be preceded by an "X." (See Decision 4-1/1.)

There is no limit to the number of unfinished holes a player may have in a round, provided that failure to finish is not for the purpose of handicap manipulation.

 

That seems like a pretty ridiculous rule to have for handicaps as it is open for abuse.  Fortunately, it would only affect vanity handicappers. 

 

Let's say a guy has eight 3-foot putts that are conceded in a given round.  I don't know what the stats are, but I'm gonna say that 3/4ths of the time, you will make that putt, which means your "more likely" score every time is based on the putt being made, even though on aggregate, the golfer most likely would have missed two of those.  Anyway, it's not a significant problem, but seems pretty silly to allow limitless concessions for handicap purposes.

post #123 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtleback View Post
 

 

If you have to contrive a situation that hardly ever happens, 1/2" from the hole after a bunker shot, to make your point the weakness of your case just gets revealed.  99+% of putts inside of a foot are the result of lag putts, where it is simple and quick to just putt out.

I don't think so.  If anyone concedes that they would take a gimme in that situation, then they have no right to say that they would NEVER take one.

 

As for raking the bunkers for others...  It is very common in our group to offer to rake a bunker for a fellow player if their bunker shot still leaves them away from the hole.  I'm not sure that's a very good comparison to raking a bunker for someone so they can go tap in a ball hanging over the lip of the cup...

 

I guess people just fall on one side of the fence or the other when it comes to this subject.  I'd be curious where the overall ST population falls on this subject?  What percentage of us on this forum would never take a gimme?  Not that it would really matter...  I'd just be curious...

post #124 of 159

Depends on the round, my playing partners, what game I am playing, ect...

 

Example, if it is just me and my dad, we'll do gimme's. If the game set up is were you are out of the hole, then you can pick up, so that factors in. Usually I don't take gimmes under majority of situations. 

post #125 of 159

I'm not super exercised about this, but I side generally with wanting to hole out. 

 

But I'm a fan of quick(ish) rounds, so I could imagine, if I got to play courses that weren't totally full very often, that this could be more of an issue.  I can sympathize with a golfing norm where everyone wants to play a 3 hour round and you just play ready golf, have a fairly quick pre-shot routine, be ready to hit as soon as it's your turn (don't start a long pre-shot routine after sitting and gazing at the previous shot until after it's totally settled), and take 2 footers rather than setting them up like you're in the last group on a Sunday.  I still think it's bad etiquette to hit it back without asking if you don't know the player though.

post #126 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by boil3rmak3r View Post

I don't think so.  If anyone concedes that they would take a gimme in that situation, then they have no right to say that they would NEVER take one.

As for raking the bunkers for others...  It is very common in our group to offer to rake a bunker for a fellow player if their bunker shot still leaves them away from the hole.  I'm not sure that's a very good comparison to raking a bunker for someone so they can go tap in a ball hanging over the lip of the cup...

I guess people just fall on one side of the fence or the other when it comes to this subject.  I'd be curious where the overall ST population falls on this subject?  What percentage of us on this forum would never take a gimme?  Not that it would really matter...  I'd just be curious...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvisliveson View Post
 

 

All very well stated.  And holing out is not the badge of a legitimate low handicap golfer like some seem to think here.This past year, my buddy and a hooked up with a +2 who had once played really high level competitive golf. He soon became a regular part of our weekend group and we noticed he picked up almost any time he was within a couple of feet. After a few rounds of watching us he started conceding putts, at first prefacing it by saying 'it's more than likely than not you would make that".


I agree, how do you start a poll?

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