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How do you deal with the 'Gimme' players? - Page 6

post #91 of 159
Oh that makes sense. I'm new to golf and how the whole handicap thing works...and why it's even necessary if you're not playing in a tournament. But yeah I agree I don't care what anyone else is doing really...as long as they don't try and tell me what to do.
post #92 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnno View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BENtSwing32 View Post
 

I'm chiming in late on the subject...new to TST.

 

If you are not holding up the group behind, I don't think a stranger should be knocking putts back to you. Drives me crazy. I like to putt out everything, otherwise I don't feel like I've played a complete round. If POP is an issue, I'll take 1 foot and close gimmies, but that's it.

 

It's funny how people will brag about their decreasing handicaps while taking 3-5 foot gimmie putts.

 

 

As mentioned earlier, IF anyone puts in a handicap card with gimmies then they are in breach of the rules = cheats.  Pure and simple.

 

 

Not in the US we aren't.  Handicap systems are not the same all over the world.  The USGA system has procedures which allow for a certain number of unfinished or unplayed holes.  You can have up to 5 unfinished holes in an 18 hole round and still return a proper score for handicap.  If the player fails to follow the proper procedure, then he will not have a correct handicap.  However, in most cases, that will result in a vanity handicap, which generally hurts only himself.

post #93 of 159

A "gimme" still results in the extra stroke, right?  For example, I just made my 4th stroke, it lands 5" from the cup, and someone gives me a "gimme" - that's still 5 strokes ... correct?  As I understand "gimmes" are shots you know one would be able to make, but it saves some time in a social games.

post #94 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoffeeBean View Post
 

A "gimme" still results in the extra stroke, right?  For example, I just made my 4th stroke, it lands 5" from the cup, and someone gives me a "gimme" - that's still 5 strokes ... correct?  As I understand "gimmes" are shots you know one would be able to make, but it saves some time in a social games.


If a "gimme" had a set of rules I guess this would be correct. But as far as saving time I think if people would play "ready" golf, stop taking 3 practice swings over every shot, use a golf cart correctly and park equal distance between the riders shots instead of going to 1 and then the other, and then just an awareness to move along because nobody likes waiting for long periods of time just like them. Like others have said as long as it's not a posted score or tournament do whatever feels right but I'm sure everyone here has seen people miss putts from gimme distance not just in person but TV as well.....just saying.

post #95 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoffeeBean View Post
 

A "gimme" still results in the extra stroke, right?  For example, I just made my 4th stroke, it lands 5" from the cup, and someone gives me a "gimme" - that's still 5 strokes ... correct?  As I understand "gimmes" are shots you know one would be able to make, but it saves some time in a social games.

 

You italicized the operative word there.  "Gimmes"--as they exist in some stroke-play netherworld between the official rules of golf and casual rounds--are supposed to be putts a person would virtually never miss.  If somebody is giving 5 footers, I'd like to play that person for money in a match play event :-D.  

post #96 of 159
I asked in an earlier post if anyone would not allow a "gimme" if a ball is left just 1/2" from the cup. Nobody answered. I'd be interested to know if anyone wouldn't be ok with a gimme in that situation (i'm talking about a non-tournament round where the golfer will post his score for handicap purposes).

IMO, that's taking things a bit far for a number of reasons:

1: How many times will the worst of the worst putters miss that putt???
2: It really could slow your group down. What if that shot came from the green side bunker and you are insistent on tapping it in? Everyone has to wait to putt while you rake the trap, get your putter, and get to your ball for that tap in.
3: People have said that tapping these in doesn't add time to the round and they can do so without stepping on someone else's line. How do they do this? By quickly approaching the shot and hitting the putt with one hand on the club and their feet straddling all the different lines they need to avoid. So, they are basically compromising every aspect of the fundamentals of putting for this stroke. In essence, they aren't giving their best effort at making the putt. If they should miss using this style, I'd say that was sandbagging.
post #97 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by boil3rmak3r View Post

I asked in an earlier post if anyone would not allow a "gimme" if a ball is left just 1/2" from the cup. Nobody answered. I'd be interested to know if anyone wouldn't be ok with a gimme in that situation (i'm talking about a non-tournament round where the golfer will post his score for handicap purposes).

IMO, that's taking things a bit far for a number of reasons:

1: How many times will the worst of the worst putters miss that putt???
2: It really could slow your group down. What if that shot came from the green side bunker and you are insistent on tapping it in? Everyone has to wait to putt while you rake the trap, get your putter, and get to your ball for that tap in.
3: People have said that tapping these in doesn't add time to the round and they can do so without stepping on someone else's line. How do they do this? By quickly approaching the shot and hitting the putt with one hand on the club and their feet straddling all the different lines they need to avoid. So, they are basically compromising every aspect of the fundamentals of putting for this stroke. In essence, they aren't giving their best effort at making the putt. If they should miss using this style, I'd say that was sandbagging.


If you want to give someone a "gimme" that's your business and yes I have seen someone miss a 4" putt using their sand wedge and bellying it and missed the ball so I guess they would have missed 1/2" as well. It almost sounds like you guys want to make the excuse of pace of play as a reason to do this when there are other numerous reasons for slow play. And besides could someone else rake the trap for this player so he could walk up and tap it in or someone else mark it for him?

post #98 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by boil3rmak3r View Post

I asked in an earlier post if anyone would not allow a "gimme" if a ball is left just 1/2" from the cup. Nobody answered. I'd be interested to know if anyone wouldn't be ok with a gimme in that situation (i'm talking about a non-tournament round where the golfer will post his score for handicap purposes).

 

If it is not a tournament round, then I have nothing to say about some one else's gimmes, I would not give them though unless he asked the ball back. I would hate if someone gave me gimmes in that situation. Even if I was his marker (outside USGA world) I could not care less.

post #99 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by flopster View Post
 

And besides could someone else rake the trap for this player so he could walk up and tap it in or someone else mark it for him?

 

Did you not read the reasoning... this would be impossible because he would have to either stand on someone else's line or putt in odd position, and raking the bunker for someone or even raking it after the tap in would be unheard of. :beer:.

post #100 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by luu5 View Post

Originally Posted by flopster View Post
 

And besides could someone else rake the trap for this player so he could walk up and tap it in or someone else mark it for him?

 

Did you not read the reasoning... this would be impossible because he would have to either stand on someone else's line or putt in odd position,...

 

Well, it does happen in competitive golf, doesn't it..?

post #101 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by boil3rmak3r View Post

I asked in an earlier post if anyone would not allow a "gimme" if a ball is left just 1/2" from the cup. Nobody answered. I'd be interested to know if anyone wouldn't be ok with a gimme in that situation (i'm talking about a non-tournament round where the golfer will post his score for handicap purposes).
 

 

What's the big fuss about that 1/2" gimme? In a competition you putt it out (you have to). In other instances, would you really want to take the time to tap it in?

post #102 of 159

I goofed.  That was supposed to be 5' from the cup - INCHES, not feet! A "gimme" on a five foot putt?  Who does that!?

post #103 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by boil3rmak3r View Post

I asked in an earlier post if anyone would not allow a "gimme" if a ball is left just 1/2" from the cup. Nobody answered. I'd be interested to know if anyone wouldn't be ok with a gimme in that situation (i'm talking about a non-tournament round where the golfer will post his score for handicap purposes).

IMO, that's taking things a bit far for a number of reasons:

1: How many times will the worst of the worst putters miss that putt???
2: It really could slow your group down. What if that shot came from the green side bunker and you are insistent on tapping it in? Everyone has to wait to putt while you rake the trap, get your putter, and get to your ball for that tap in.
3: People have said that tapping these in doesn't add time to the round and they can do so without stepping on someone else's line. How do they do this? By quickly approaching the shot and hitting the putt with one hand on the club and their feet straddling all the different lines they need to avoid. So, they are basically compromising every aspect of the fundamentals of putting for this stroke. In essence, they aren't giving their best effort at making the putt. If they should miss using this style, I'd say that was sandbagging.

 

1) Hale Irwin missed a 1" putt at the Open Championship, and as a result, missed out on a playoff.  I'm a decent putter, but I missed an 8" par putt once in a match.  My opponent never conceded me a single putt that day.  I found out later that it was his first match and he didn't know that it was allowed.  He always tapped in after I gave him 2 or 3 putts during the round, but he never asked or commented that he thought it was illegal.

 

2) If a player hits it that close from a bunker, I'll rake the bunker for him while he putts out.  I've raked bunkers many times for other players when my next turn was after theirs.  

 

3) I've done this so often that I don't even think about it.  If it's a putt that I might miss, then I mark (because if that is the case, then it definitely doesn't fit the definition of a gimme).  If it's truly a gimme, then I should be able to tap in in from just about any stance if I just use my head about it and don't rush.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignorant View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by boil3rmak3r View Post

I asked in an earlier post if anyone would not allow a "gimme" if a ball is left just 1/2" from the cup. Nobody answered. I'd be interested to know if anyone wouldn't be ok with a gimme in that situation (i'm talking about a non-tournament round where the golfer will post his score for handicap purposes).
 

 

What's the big fuss about that 1/2" gimme? In a competition you putt it out (you have to). In other instances, would you really want to take the time to tap it in?

 

 

Yes, I would.

post #104 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoffeeBean View Post
 

I goofed.  That was supposed to be 5' from the cup - INCHES, not feet! A "gimme" on a five foot putt?  Who does that!?

 

Actually, you had it correct and it is I who goofed.  5" is inches, but I read it as if you were saying 5 feet.  I would have no problem with 5" gimmes in a casual round.  Of course, I'm not the one who gives people putts.  But if somebody else did, I'd have no problem with it.  

 

And yes, people can miss them.

post #105 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEfree View Post
 

Good answer from EJ- typically, I like to putt everything out also to stay sharp for competitive rounds, but if our group is slow, I 'll let them knock me back putts inside a foot during casual rounds.

 

Yesterday, I was invited out with a friend to play a very nice private club in our area and we had a small match going with the two members whe were both solid players.  I was surprised when they occasionally giving putts outside the leather but inside 3 feet- not always, but a few that actually meant something in the match.  Not to look a gift horse in the mouth, we took the putts but I would have felt better about my score had I putted everything.

In match play it's common to give questionable length putts early in the round only to make you putt them later when it really matters.

post #106 of 159

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignorant View Post
 

 

What's the big fuss about that 1/2" gimme? In a competition you putt it out (you have to). In other instances, would you really want to take the time to tap it in?

 

Yes, I would.

 

Why? You think you could miss that or for some other particular (rational) reason?

 

I mean, a half an inch! Seriously...

post #107 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignorant View Post
 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignorant View Post
 

 

What's the big fuss about that 1/2" gimme? In a competition you putt it out (you have to). In other instances, would you really want to take the time to tap it in?

 

Yes, I would.

 

 

Why? You think you could miss that or for some other particular (rational) reason?

 

I mean, a half an inch! Seriously...

 

It's just as fast for me to tap it in as it is for someone else to walk over and hit it back to me.  I don't really understand your resistance to this.  You are the one who is always questioning any deviations from the rules.  I like to finish the hole myself as the rules require, thank you.

post #108 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnno View Post
 

 

 

As mentioned earlier, IF anyone puts in a handicap card with gimmies then they are in breach of the rules = cheats.  Pure and simple.

 

On the other hand, for a social game not in competition nor for handicap, I frankly don't give a rat's whether you have gimmes from the whole green, tee off from in front of the tee boxes, have mulligans, free drops from divots or whatever  

 

Not sure how taking a gimme implies cheating in a non-tournament round   If you actually look at the rules, they are all about the competition (competitors).  Cheating means to break a rule or law usually to gain an advantage at something; to take something from (someone) by lying or breaking a rule; to violate rules dishonestly.  Taking a gimme putt does none of those things, you gain no advantage during a non-tournament round, other than a vanity handicap, you certainly haven't taken anything from someone else, and are you really dishonest taking a gimme putt?  The opposite would be cheating to me, you have a 2 foot putt, you don't even try to make it to arbitrarily inflate your handicap by posting a higher score.  

 

From the USGA Rules of Golf:

Failure To Hole Out

If a competitor fails to hole out at any hole and does not correct his mistake before he makes a stroke on the next teeing ground or, in the case of the last hole of the round, before he leaves the putting greenhe is disqualified.

A “competitor’’ is a player in a stroke-play competition. A “fellow-competitor’’ is any person with whom the competitor plays. Neither is partner of the other.

Last I looked, playing on the weekend is not a competition. Competition is "the act or process of trying to get or win something".  Again, weekend duffer round is not that.

 

Two basic premises underlie the USGA Handicap Systemnamely that each player will try to make the best score at every hole in every round, regardless of where the round is played, and that the player will post every acceptable round for peer review.  

 

Here are the unacceptable scores:

 

Unacceptable Scores

Scores made under the following conditions are not acceptable for handicap purposes and must not be entered in the player's scoring record:

(i) When fewer than seven holes are played;

(ii) When made on a golf course in an area in which an inactive seasonestablished by the authorized golf association is in effect;

(iii) When the length of the course is less than 3,000 yards for 18 holes (or less than 1,500 yards for 9 holes);

(iv) When, as a condition of the competition, the maximum number of clubs allowed is less than 14, or types of clubs are limited as, for example, in a competition that allows only iron clubs;

(v) When scores are made on a course with no USGA Course Rating orSlope Rating;

(vi) When a player uses non-conforming clubs, non-conforming balls, or tees;

(vii) With respect to Rule 14-3 (Rules of Golf), when an artificial device or piece of unusual equipment is used during the execution of a stroke or when equipment is used in an unusual manner during the execution of a stroke. (See Decision 5-1e/3.)

Nothing about not finishing out a hole, hmm....

Section 4
 
Conceded Strokes/Unfinished Holes
 
Q.  How does a player post a score if conceded a stroke or does not finish a hole?
 
A.  If a player does not finish a hole or is conceded a stroke, record the most likely score for handicap purposes. A most likely score is the number of strokes already taken, plus in the player's best judgment, the number of strokes needed to complete the hole from that point more than half the time.

So in my mind if you have a 12 inch putt of which you would make 55 out of 100 (more than half for the non-mathematical folks), you would have to take that score if you didn't putt it, as you would be likely to make it half the time.  Seriously, you're supposed to post a score when you play at least 13 holes, you need to take par plus your handicap for the remaining holes.  And you have equitable strokes for different handicaps, so if you could only take a double max and you're hitting your 8th shot do you continue to play? You even have to post a score in a tournament if you'tr disqualified if it's still an acceptable scorecard, see unacceptable scores above.

 

Cheating hardly.  Only cheating if you don't hole out in a competitions and if it floats your boat to putt out ever putt, no matter how close, more power to you.  

 

Under 4-1 of the Handicap Manual

 

Unfinished Holes and Conceded Strokes

A player who starts, but does not complete a hole or is conceded a stroke must record for handicap purposes the most likely score. The most likely score may not exceed the player's Equitable Stroke Control limit, defined in Section 4-3. This most likely score should be preceded by an "X." (See Decision 4-1/1.)

There is no limit to the number of unfinished holes a player may have in a round, provided that failure to finish is not for the purpose of handicap manipulation.

Now you can say that possibly a gimme putt might be handicap manipulation, but I'm more concerned with the sandbagger than the vanity handicapper, and the sandbagger is what the handicap manipulation is meant for, IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boil3rmak3r View Post

If it's a casual round and I don't have a bet on it, I could care less if others took 4' "gimmes". That just helps them get a slight vanity cap and let's me know I'll have an advantage if I ever play them in a tournament or for money. It's also my experience that these golfers are likely poor pressure putters.

As for me, I practice enough to know what a "gimme" should be for me. If someone wants to give me a 1' downhill putt that breaks to the right and could end up 2' past the hole if missed, I won't accept it (unless there's money on the line with that person only or it's match play). If they want to give me a 1 footer that is straight and flat, fine. Even if I would miss that flat 1 footer 2% of the time, my handicap index likely won't change an iota.

I'm curious, is there ANYONE here that is so adamant about playing every stroke that they would NEVER accept or give a gimme in a casual round. For example, what if a ball is 1/2" away from the hole (virtually falling in)?

 

I'm with you, someone taking a gimme hurts only that person in a tournament or in a match and during a weekend round with the guys it is much ado about nothing.  

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