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Unexpected Lost Ball - No Provisional - What Do You Do? - Page 3

Poll Results: Unexpected Lost Ball - No Provisional - What Do You Do?

 
  • 36% (17)
    Run back and play your shot again
  • 52% (24)
    Take a drop with a stroke penalty
  • 10% (5)
    Take a free drop (someone must have picked it up, right?)
46 Total Votes  
post #37 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

The point is, the rest of his group continues to play while he comes back and plays the second ball.  He races back out, plays to the green, finishes out and catches up with his group.  Once he plays to the green, you can be hitting.  It should take you all of 1/2 hole to catch up with his group again.  If they all stand around waiting for your group to play through, then the next bunch behind you will already be moving toward the tee and now you have delayed more than just one group.  If you have a problem with it, then play someplace where nobody cares about the rules.

 

I have no doubt he is a fast player - and fast at re-teeing.  But he isn't faster at re-teeing than he is at not re-teeing.  And he isn't long gone before I can make one swing - when he is still 250 yards from the tee box and walking out of the woods after a 5-minute long unsuccessful search for his ball.  And maybe no one is behind me - so he won't be holding anyone up to let me through.

 

And maybe the play-through idea is not a good solution.  As previously stated, it was just an idea and something I'd probably offer to someone behind me if I was holding them up in this fashion.  My lost ball - my problem.  You fellas go ahead through.

 

But I don't think it is any slower than the re-teeing that would be going on all over the course if this is really how people played it out.  And maybe the rest of the course isn't as fast as David at re-teeing.  And maybe they aren't as diligent about hitting a provisional as he is - which means even more re-teeing.  It's gonna slow down play.

 

I've never seen anyone do this and I doubt it happens very often.  With all I hear about slow play on the GC, the magazines, the websites, this site, etc - I really thought that golfers would sort of acquiesce that you will come up with as fair of a solution as you can without actually going back to the tee box while people are waiting on it.  I even thought I understood your post earlier in this thread to say that you wouldn't go back either.

 

As for the rules - sure I care about them.  If there is no one waiting behind, go re-tee.  But when other folks have paid their money and want to get a timely round in and the lost ball is my problem - I would just try to make the best of the situation and do the next best thing that's fair to the rulebook, the handicap committee, and any opponents I might be playing with - and try not to burden the other groups.

post #38 of 160

I'm glad I play early....before all the slow pokes walking back to the tee.  LOL

post #39 of 160
No effing way am I going to go back, ask the guys to move off of the tee box while I retee, make them watch me hit another questionably OB shot again, then hit a provisional this time just in case, then go back out there to look again, then make them watch me end up dropping anyway after losing 3 balls. Nope.
post #40 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

I still don't agree with that take on things, but it's not the topic here, so… I'm done.

 

I agree with you.  I think that once you do not go back you have basically DQed yourself for the hole, so it is a hole you started but did not complete and therefore should post based on the most likely score including the penalty strokes, not the par plus handicap rule.

 

I also don't see why it would be OT to discuss this as it is a consequence of the situation posited by the OP.  

post #41 of 160

In a bounce game ( that’s a friendly over the pond ) just take the drop, two stroke penalty. In competition you go back or your DQ…no argument.

 

Enjoy your golf

post #42 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

If I'm coming back, I'm gonna hit and be LONG gone before you and your group could even get off the tee.......

Trust me on this one! a1_smile.gif

Dangerous driving the cart that fast with a paper bag on your head!
b2_tongue.gif
post #43 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

 

The point is, the rest of his group continues to play while he comes back and plays the second ball.  He races back out, plays to the green, finishes out and catches up with his group.  Once he plays to the green, you can be hitting.  It should take you all of 1/2 hole to catch up with his group again.  If they all stand around waiting for your group to play through, then the next bunch behind you will already be moving toward the tee and now you have delayed more than just one group.  If you have a problem with it, then play someplace where nobody cares about the rules.

 

Just as likely:

 

He's the longest hitter in his group and is "sure" that his ball is in the fairway just over the next dune. One of the other guys in the group (and a shorter hitter) also can't find his ball so he has the choice of standing there or helping his friend look for his ball (which they never find). His friend decides to go back to the tee box and now he doesn't quite know what to do because he's still "sure" that his ball is in the fairway just past that dune. He doesn't think his friend can reach him from the tee box so he decides to go ahead up to where his ball is and continue playing.

 

To his amazement he doesn't see his ball as he rounds the dune. Looks everywhere but no luck. Starts to think maybe he didn't hit the ball as far as he thought he did (but it sure felt like he killed it) but he can't go back because by now his friend should be teeing off from up on the hill. Finally he sees his friend (who has now given up on the hole because he hit two duck hooks off of the tee as two more groups waited to tee off).

 

He goes back looking along the edge of the fairway but finds nothing except one of the balls his friend hit and couldn't find.

 

By now the other two groups on the tee are not happy campers and a course marshal is also there wondering why the course is starting to get backed up.

 

He hits another ball that "has" to be in the fairway and goes back down the hill and around the first dune. Thankfully there it is and he plays it. Hopefully he keeps this one in the fairway because there are now three groups and a marshal behind him wondering what kind of idiots are in front of them and thinking of just calling it a day and going home.

post #44 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meltdwhiskey View Post
 

 

Maybe I don't fully understand.  But if I'm waiting on the tee - and I guess watching your group look for a lost ball, then how can you be long gone before we tee off?  You wouldn't even be back to the tee box before I'd like to tee off.  And you'd still have to:

 

Drive back to the box

Club up

Walk to the tee box

Tee up

Hit (only once assuming you don't go OB again)

Return to your cart

Drive to your ball

De-club / re-club

Hit from the fairway

Possibly sand/replace a divot

Drive off

 

I'm not sure you can take care of these 11 tasks - which include driving a cart about 500 yards - before I and 0 to 3 others can simply hit our ball.  But maybe I'm just not understanding the scenario.

 

Either way, with mention of playing through, I just thought it might sound like a nice gesture.  If I was to go back, I'd feel inclined to offer something up for slowing down the group behind.  Just let them know we are in a very spirited match and felt like we had to re-tee - so why don't you fellas go ahead through since this might even happen again.

 

Maybe a re-tee wouldn't take as long as I think, but with the slow play threads I've read on this site, it seems like a deal breaker.  I'd imagine the rules-allotted 5 minute search time would actually be pushing it.  It would never have occurred to me to re-tee unless there was no one on the tee yet.

 

I may have exaggerated a LITTLE bit.....but honestly, not much. The only reason you're even close to us in the first place is that we're being held up by the group(s) in front of us which means I'm searching and then driving back while the group ahead of us are still on the green.  I don't mean to be condescending, but most mid-to-high hcp golfers just have no idea how quickly a fast group can play.....without rushing. You won't be slowed down at all by my re-tee. My group will continue to play the hole, I'll catch them on the green, and we'll continue to be right on the butts of the group ahead of us.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

 

The point is, the rest of his group continues to play while he comes back and plays the second ball.  He races back out, plays to the green, finishes out and catches up with his group.  Once he plays to the green, you can be hitting.  It should take you all of 1/2 hole to catch up with his group again.  If they all stand around waiting for your group to play through, then the next bunch behind you will already be moving toward the tee and now you have delayed more than just one group.  If you have a problem with it, then play someplace where nobody cares about the rules.

 

Yep.

 

It's worth reminding everyone that the OP is about a very unique and relatively rare situation, where no provisional was hit due to a lost ball that "shouldn't" have been lost.....and in conjunction with a stroke play competition. The unexpected lost ball happens to me maybe 2 or 3 times a year (100+ rounds).  It probably hasn't happened to me once in the past 3 years in an actual stroke play competition.....

post #45 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
 

 

I may have exaggerated a LITTLE bit.....but honestly, not much. The only reason you're even close to us in the first place is that we're being held up by the group(s) in front of us which means I'm searching and then driving back while the group ahead of us are still on the green.  I don't mean to be condescending, but most mid-to-high hcp golfers just have no idea how quickly a fast group can play.....without rushing. You won't be slowed down at all by my re-tee. My group will continue to play the hole, I'll catch them on the green, and we'll continue to be right on the butts of the group ahead of us.

 

I played 9 in 53 minutes last week. And I was hitting multiple balls and practicing bunker shots.

post #46 of 160

I have noticed a few say they DRIVE back to the tee box (or where they last hit from)- Do any of you who re-hit NOT take a cart?  If you were walking, does your answer change?  Are you still going to be outta there so fast that the group waiting on you does not notice?  If the rules of golf gave you the option of dropping and adding 2 shots or going back and re-hitting with a 1 shot penalty, would you still go back?

post #47 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post
 

 

I played 9 in 53 minutes last week. And I was hitting multiple balls and practicing bunker shots.

 

 

THAT's what I'm talking about!  You'll fit right in with my happy little group.   :beer:

 

We can get around in about 2:45 as a 4-ball.  Two of us will get around in 2:15 easily.  I have no idea how quick we could get around if we really pushed it, but what's the point?  Golf should be a leisurely experience.   :-)

post #48 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
 

 

 

THAT's what I'm talking about!  You'll fit right in with my happy little group.   :beer:

 

We can get around in about 2:45 as a 4-ball.  Two of us will get around in 2:15 easily.  I have no idea how quick we could get around if we really pushed it, but what's the point?  Golf should be a leisurely experience.   :-)

 

Yep. The course was really open, I played through one group that only held me up about 5 mins. Every green side bunker I dropped 2-4 balls in and practiced, worked on the putting stroke, and hit multiple iron shots from the same spots. If I rushed it and played one ball, I probably would have been done in 40 minutes. But at that point it's almost a waste of money. haha.

 

Plus, this left me like an hour and a half to work on my short game on/around the practice green.

post #49 of 160

What is the internet adjustment formula for speed of play?

post #50 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEfree View Post
 

What is the internet adjustment formula for speed of play?

 

LOL.  Probably about the same as length of drive!   :-D

post #51 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by MEfree View Post
 

What is the internet adjustment formula for speed of play?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
 

 

LOL.  Probably about the same as length of drive!   :-D

 

Give me some time...

post #52 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
 

I may have exaggerated a LITTLE bit.....but honestly, not much. The only reason you're even close to us in the first place is that we're being held up by the group(s) in front of us which means I'm searching and then driving back while the group ahead of us are still on the green.  I don't mean to be condescending, but most mid-to-high hcp golfers just have no idea how quickly a fast group can play.....without rushing. You won't be slowed down at all by my re-tee. My group will continue to play the hole, I'll catch them on the green, and we'll continue to be right on the butts of the group ahead of us.

 

It's worth reminding everyone that the OP is about a very unique and relatively rare situation, where no provisional was hit due to a lost ball that "shouldn't" have been lost.....and in conjunction with a stroke play competition. The unexpected lost ball happens to me maybe 2 or 3 times a year (100+ rounds).  It probably hasn't happened to me once in the past 3 years in an actual stroke play competition.....

 

FWIW, I played 18 as a two-some on Sunday in 2:45 and I walked.  Turns out that if you play in Atlanta during a GA Bulldog game, you can go pretty fast.  But my and your personal playing speeds are not really the issue.  If everyone adopts this policy, including the OP, play will be slowed.  Not everyone is as fast as you and not as probably not as diligent about hitting provisionals. And even at your lightning speeds - you are gonna play slower on that hole if you go back than you would have if you didn't.  And if someone (notably a 'normal' speed group) is behind you - you slowed down that group and all the ones behind it by that amount of time - even if you speed up and go way ahead of them after the re-tee.

 

From a Golf Digest article this month:

"Searching for golf balls that might be lost, out of bounds, or not playable in the weeds, woods and water adds minutes - frequently lots of minutes - to a round.  One or two perfectly legal five-minute searches for a missing ball (usually a group activity) burns up more time than that wasted over 18 holes by a selfish golfer possessing a lengthy pre-shot routine who's rarely ready to play when it's his turn."

 

I realize that surely the scenario we are discussing shouldn't happen twice in a round.  But the point is that the search already took plenty of time.  Going back just seems like too much.  At some point it is time to be respectful of those behind you and go with one of the rules Fourputt or Iacas has suggested - or maybe agree to do the two stroke thing everyone advocates for your match.  I don't think anyone is going to call you out as a cheater or a vanity capper for what happened on the 2 to 3 times per year this occurs for you - or anyone else.

post #53 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meltdwhiskey View Post
 

 

FWIW, I played 18 as a two-some on Sunday in 2:45 and I walked.  Turns out that if you play in Atlanta during a GA Bulldog game, you can go pretty fast.  But my and your personal playing speeds are not really the issue.  If everyone adopts this policy, including the OP, play will be slowed.  Not everyone is as fast as you and not as probably not as diligent about hitting provisionals. And even at your lightning speeds - you are gonna play slower on that hole if you go back than you would have if you didn't.  And if someone (notably a 'normal' speed group) is behind you - you slowed down that group and all the ones behind it by that amount of time - even if you speed up and go way ahead of them after the re-tee.

 

From a Golf Digest article this month:

"Searching for golf balls that might be lost, out of bounds, or not playable in the weeds, woods and water adds minutes - frequently lots of minutes - to a round.  One or two perfectly legal five-minute searches for a missing ball (usually a group activity) burns up more time than that wasted over 18 holes by a selfish golfer possessing a lengthy pre-shot routine who's rarely ready to play when it's his turn."

 

I realize that surely the scenario we are discussing shouldn't happen twice in a round.  But the point is that the search already took plenty of time.  Going back just seems like too much.  At some point it is time to be respectful of those behind you and go with one of the rules Fourputt or Iacas has suggested - or maybe agree to do the two stroke thing everyone advocates for your match.  I don't think anyone is going to call you out as a cheater or a vanity capper for what happened on the 2 to 3 times per year this occurs for you - or anyone else.

 

By "adopts this policy", you mean playing by the rules.......?

 

 

 

And no, I didn't slow anyone down.  I'm searching while waiting on the group ahead to finish on the green.  Then, I'm hitting and rejoining my own group on the green and we're going to resume our spot right where we left off, right behind the group in front of us.  Since you were right behind us in the first place, you're obviously able to keep up too and within a half hole, you'll be waiting on us, waiting on them again.  No loss in net time at all.

 

Playing by the rules does NOT cause slow play.  Slow players cause slow play.  Slow players also like to look for excuses for their own slow play and tend to blame everyone/everything but themselves.  BTW.....that was not directed at you, but rather a general comment based on loooooong observation.

 

One more time though......keep this in context, we're talking stroke play competition.  If you read my first post in this thread you'll note that when the form of play allows another, better option, I'll take it.

post #54 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meltdwhiskey View Post
 

 

First - I said that if I was the one going back - I'd expect condescending comments from others. I didn't say I'd do it to you.  But I do love you how call me out for not being a 'caring golfer' all while telling me my feelings (and time) don't matter because your feelings got hurt because you're going 3 off the tee. It was also awesome how you told me what I would politely be doing and what I wouldn't be doing in as snide a manner as I can conceive - and then call me out for 'snide remarks' that I have NEVER MADE!

 

And just because my group wasn't held up by you before you lost your ball - doesn't mean it isn't being held up now.  It takes more time to go back and re-tee than to not go back and re-tee.  That extra time could be the cause of the holdup.  Not sure how you don't see that.  I have never seen someone come back when it is busy - but I just threw the play-through idea in there as a possible nice gesture. It is what I would do.

 

I bet you're a joy to play with.  Lay down the law Rusty! You-da-man!

Golf is a closed loop system (as my engineer college roommate would say.) The system can only move as fast as the slowest group ahead of you. So, most every time I play where groups are waiting, we are all waiting because of groups ahead of us. If my group is the slowest group in the system, then there will be "clear air" ahead of us and I will be the first advocate in my group for letting groups behind play through. However, this is rarely the case. And, if my group is waiting, then going back to re-hit a lost-ball shot does not actually effect the pace of play of the groups behind my group. We all will be waiting again very soon. Perhaps on the next tee. Not sure how you don't see that. :)

 

My apologies for assuming that any fellow SandTrap member would make condescending comments about provisionals. You did not say that you would. You simply said people would.

 

And, by most objective measures, I am a joy to play with so, your bet is safe. However, the few times a year when I play a stroke-play event, I am "da-man" who attempts to protect the field by making sure everyone plays by the rules. In the multi-round stroke-play event I play with a large group of guys, we have a max for the hole and a max on the green -- in large part for exactly these reasons. You are always welcome to take the max if you wish to surrender a hole and/or take a drop instead of going back.

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