Originally Posted by Infamous 273
RGIII hasn't showed a single sign of being a passing qb this year. Take the pistol threat away from him, and he struggles hard. I'm willing to give him time, obviously, due to not having a preseason, and returning from injury.
Take a guy like Kap: give him two left feet, and he'll still torch you with his arm alone. That's the definition of a passing qb - a qb who needs nothing more than arm strength, accuracy, and confidence to get a W.
Huh? Have you followed him this year? Or even last year? He's thrown 650 yards in 2 games with 5 TD passes. That's more than Kaepernick. His QB rating is higher than Brees, Brady, Eli, and Kap. He threw for literally twice as many yards as Kaepernick last year AND ran for twice as many. Granted, Kaepernick started 8 games and played in 10, while RGIII started 15, but even if you adjust for that the numbers work out in RGIII's favor. How can you recognize Kap as a passer but not RGIII?
Originally Posted by iacas
Steve Young didn't have a propensity for running, but he's as close as you can find with good success in the last 25 years or so. McNabb is close, but he ran less than the modern "running" QB.
You know, I was thinking the same thing. But the more I looked at it, the harder it became to draw a line. Who are the modern running QBs? RG3, Cam, Kap, and Wilson? The first three, over 16 games, would run for about 750-850 yards a year. But Wilson "only" ran for 489. So if Wilson counts you've got to draw the line at say 400 yards. Steve Young broke 400 yards rushing 5 times. Only Vick and Cunningham did it more often, and they only did it 6 times. If Young didnt sit behind Montana for 7 years he probably would have done it 6-7 times, making him the guy with the most 400+ seasons. McNabb did it 3 times (high of 629) and McNair 5 times (including 674 and 559).
So if you try to define Steve Young out of that group, say by counting guys who run for 600 yards or more, you're left with Vick and Cunningham who each did it 3 times. McNair and McNabb did it once each, which probably isn't enough to put them solidly in this category. Kaepernick and Wilson haven't hit that mark, though Kap probably would over 16 games. I don't know how to look up who else might have done it other than guessing and checking their stats. So I've come up with four players total, two of which are very young. So to say that no "running" QB has had sustained success, you're talking about Vick and Cunningham. I'd argue that both had really good careers AND that Newton and RGIII are more talented passers.
Originally Posted by iacas
No, I talked about the past, and how I think that trend will continue in the future.
I was joking but you're right that in the past, high levels of rushing yards by QBs have not been sustainable. I just disagree that RGIII and Cam Newton won't have sustained success because I think the rule changes to protect the ball carrier will mitigate that some, and I think these guys have the pocket passing skills to stick around.
They aren't the same as the Michael Vicks of the world. In RGIII's rookie season, his passing stats were better than Michael Vick's best year. And he ran for more than 800 yards, which Vick has only done twice, and not in his best passing years. I don't think some of you appreciate how much better these guys can be than the running QBs of the past. Cam Newton threw for 4,000 yards and 3,800 yards in his first two seasons while also running for 700+. He scored 62 TDs in his first two seasons. Consider these passing numbers:
Peyton Manning 1st Season - 3739--26--28--71.2
Peyton Manning 2nd Season - 4135--26--15--90.7
Tom Brady 1st (full) Season (14 games) - 2843--18--12--86.5
Tom Brady 2nd Season - 3764--28--14--85.7
Cam Newton First Season - 4051--21--17--84.5
Cam Newton Second Season - 3869--19--12--86.2
RGIII first season (15 games) 3200--20--5--102.4
Over his first two seasons Newton has thrown for far more yards than Brady did, and about as many as Manning did, while throwing 6 fewer TDs than Brady and 16 fewer TDs than Manning, but also throwing 14 fewer INTs than manning and only 3 more INTs than Brady. So his passing numbers are pretty close to two pocket passing, first ballot hall of famers. He set records for most passing yards by a rookie in a game and in a season. First rookie to throw for 400 yards in back to back games. First rookie to throw for more than 4000 yards in a season (only the 4th to throw for 3000). Third most passing TD's by a rookie. First rookie QB in the pro bowl (along with Dalton).
RGII's first season was arguably a better passing season than two pocket passing, first ballot hall of famers. He became the third rookie QB to make the pro bowl.
These guys are like taking Drew Bledsoe or Rich Gannon and giving them Michael Vick's legs.
**Interesting note, only 10 active players have more career rushing yards than Michael Vick. 91st all time.