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2013 NFL Football - Page 6

post #91 of 1006

I was arguing against the point some have made that running QB's peter out after a few years by pointing out that these guys are different because even if they take a beating, they can throw the ball well enough to stick around.*  I'm not trying to argue that they are better than Manning or Brady because of those stats.

 

 

 

* and against the guy who said RGIII hasn't shown anything to indicate that he can throw.

post #92 of 1006
Great debate, can we all agree on one thing though...Tony Romo is way overated, Jerry Jones is now officially a clown, and the Dallas Cowboys have been the most overhyped team for at least the last decade...America's team, give me a break (not that I'm biased or anything...haha!).
post #93 of 1006
Quote:
Originally Posted by GangGreen View Post

Great debate, can we all agree on one thing though...Tony Romo is way overated, Jerry Jones is now officially a clown, and the Dallas Cowboys have been the most overhyped team for at least the last decade...America's team, give me a break (not that I'm biased or anything...haha!).

 



Oh I agree with this 100%
post #94 of 1006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infamous 273 View Post

RGIII hasn't showed a single sign of being a passing qb this year. Take the pistol threat away from him, and he struggles hard. I'm willing to give him time, obviously, due to not having a preseason, and returning from injury.

Take a guy like Kap: give him two left feet, and he'll still torch you with his arm alone. That's the definition of a passing qb - a qb who needs nothing more than arm strength, accuracy, and confidence to get a W.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post

I was arguing against the point some have made that running QB's peter out after a few years by pointing out that these guys are different because even if they take a beating, they can throw the ball well enough to stick around.*  I'm not trying to argue that they are better than Manning or Brady because of those stats.



* and against the guy who said RGIII hasn't shown anything to indicate that he can throw.

I guess being 31st overall in Total QBR paired with an 0-2 record are hallmark signs of being a great passing QB.

Btw, I'll say it again, I'm willing to give the guy a chance due to no preseason and returning from injury - however, I stand by what I said: RGIII hasn't showed a single sign of being a passing QB this year.
post #95 of 1006

What the f---.

 

Sorry for the language, but...

 

What. The. F---.

post #96 of 1006
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post
 

What the f---.

 

Sorry for the language, but...

 

What. The. F---.

 

I was going to harass Beachcomber with this too ... I'm assuming you are referring to ... http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9690728/cleveland-browns-trade-trent-richardson-indianapolis-colts-according-source???

post #97 of 1006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

 

I was going to harass Beachcomber with this too ... I'm assuming you are referring to ... http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9690728/cleveland-browns-trade-trent-richardson-indianapolis-colts-according-source???

 

Yeah. Referring to that.

 
Not that it matters, Browns aren't doing anything anyway, so T-Rich is wasted here. 
post #98 of 1006
When I see GD's post, I assumed TR was injured which would have sucked since he's the cornerstone of my fantasy team.

But traded for just a first rounder? Weird. He's a legit workhorse back.

The article that I read said they were starting Brian Hoyer week 3 (no surprise since Mike Lombardi is his biggest fan) and Weeden would be hard-pressed to regain the starting spot.
post #99 of 1006
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamo View Post

When I see GD's post, I assumed TR was injured which would have sucked since he's the cornerstone of my fantasy team.

But traded for just a first rounder? Weird. He's a legit workhorse back.

The article that I read said they were starting Brian Hoyer week 3 (no surprise since Mike Lombardi is his biggest fan) and Weeden would be hard-pressed to regain the starting spot.

 

I guess this means that Ahmad Bradshaw has pretty much lost all fantasy value for me now??  Maybe I try and trade him to the guy who has TR as a handcuff?

post #100 of 1006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

I guess this means that Ahmad Bradshaw has pretty much lost all fantasy value for me now??  Maybe I try and trade him to the guy who has TR as a handcuff?

BTW, I have no idea if people actually call him "TR." I was just on my phone and decided to not spell out the entire thing. a3_biggrin.gif
post #101 of 1006
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamo View Post


BTW, I have no idea if people actually call him "TR." I was just on my phone and decided to not spell out the entire thing. a3_biggrin.gif

 

I didn't even assume that ... just also didn't feel like spelling the whole danged thing out. ;)

post #102 of 1006

I heard "TR" wasn't happy with the offense in Cleveland and was getting more vocal about it.  Combine that with indicators that Weeden isn't the franchise QB they thought I guess they decided to give up on winning this year and stock pile some draft picks.

post #103 of 1006

Great, I have Richardson and Bradshaw on my fantasy team.  

post #104 of 1006
Quote:
Originally Posted by cipher View Post
 

Great, I have Richardson and Bradshaw on my fantasy team.  

 

Well, T-Rich's value just went up a little, but Bradshaw will still get goal line carries because T-Rich dances too much.

 
The more it's sunk in...here's the opinion of a Cleveland fan...
 
Though it was unbelievably surprising, the Browns just made a GREAT trade. We all loved T-Rich here, and wanted him to be the star he was supposed to be. However, thus far, he has not been. He has averaged a pedestrian 3.5 yards per carry, and dances around too much instead of just hitting the hole. Sure, it's only his second year...but he was drafted 3rd overall. And for a running back, that's tremendously high. Four spots higher than Adrian Peterson. And I saw AP explode out of the gates in a terrible offense, which is what you'd expect out of a running back drafted in the top 10. 
 
The bottom line is, I believe Jim Brown was correct. He's average...nothing special unfortunately, and he was a wasted pick. Now the new owner, GM, and coach have to deal with the poor choices of the last regime, and clearly don't see him as a good fit. The fact that we get a first rounder for a guy averaging less yards per carry than DeMarco Murray, Ryan Mathews, Fred Jackson, and Rashard Mendenhall is astounding. 
 
With Richardson as the face of the Browns, they were going nowhere. Now, assuming that they don't waste the picks they have in the 2014 draft, which include two 1st rounders, a 2nd rounder, two 3rd rounders, and two 4th rounders, the Browns have just positioned themselves to fill holes in their four biggest weaknesses, while only creating one additional weakness. And I'd argue that they haven't even created a weakness at running back, as even old man McGahee will be able to continue to get us a paltry 3.4 yards per carry this season. 
post #105 of 1006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post
 

 

Well, T-Rich's value just went up a little, but Bradshaw will still get goal line carries because T-Rich dances too much.

 
The more it's sunk in...here's the opinion of a Cleveland fan...
 
Though it was unbelievably surprising, the Browns just made a GREAT trade. We all loved T-Rich here, and wanted him to be the star he was supposed to be. However, thus far, he has not been. He has averaged a pedestrian 3.5 yards per carry, and dances around too much instead of just hitting the hole. Sure, it's only his second year...but he was drafted 3rd overall. And for a running back, that's tremendously high. Four spots higher than Adrian Peterson. And I saw AP explode out of the gates in a terrible offense, which is what you'd expect out of a running back drafted in the top 10.
 
The bottom line is, I believe Jim Brown was correct. He's average...nothing special unfortunately, and he was a wasted pick. Now the new owner, GM, and coach have to deal with the poor choices of the last regime, and clearly don't see him as a good fit. The fact that we get a first rounder for a guy averaging less yards per carry than DeMarco Murray, Ryan Mathews, Fred Jackson, and Rashard Mendenhall is astounding.
 
With Richardson as the face of the Browns, they were going nowhere. Now, assuming that they don't waste the picks they have in the 2014 draft, which include two 1st rounders, a 2nd rounder, two 3rd rounders, and two 4th rounders, the Browns have just positioned themselves to fill holes in their four biggest weaknesses, while only creating one additional weakness. And I'd argue that they haven't even created a weakness at running back, as even old man McGahee will be able to continue to get us a paltry 3.4 yards per carry this season.

 

I'm not an expert on running backs, but I know defenses.  If you play against a team that has a subpar QB and suspended #1 WR, you stack the line to stop the run and make them beat you in the air.  TRich was dancing because the holes that were supposed to be open didn't exist.  He may not be worthy of a #3 overall pick (time will tell now that he's at Indy) but you can't expect any RB to be successful in an offense that has no passing threats.

 

Chris Ivory has a career average of almost 5 yards a carry but he's lucky to get 3 yards as a Jet for the same reason, no one is worried about the Jets passing game.

post #106 of 1006
Mel Kiper had some good points on Mike and Mike this morning.  With today's running back's splitting time, quality backs being available in the later rounds, and the degree to which a running game is dependent on pieces other than running backs, it doesn't make sense to use a first round pick on a RB anymore.  So he thinks the Browns made a great move because they can use the first rounder to fill another position, and replace TR's production more cheaply.
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infamous 273 View Post



I guess being 31st overall in Total QBR paired with an 0-2 record are hallmark signs of being a great passing QB.

Btw, I'll say it again, I'm willing to give the guy a chance due to no preseason and returning from injury - however, I stand by what I said: RGIII hasn't showed a single sign of being a passing QB this year.

 

Well QBR (the only stat that supports your argument, and thus, the one you hang your hat on) discounts anything done while in "garbage time," right?  So you're point isn't that he has shown any indication--this year--that he is not a good passing QB, just that he hasn't been in a position, this year, to show, as he already did last year, that he is a good passer?  If that's your point than sure, you are correct. But your point is meaningless. For example, you don't go around saying that Tom Brady, 22 in QBR, who played 2 close games that provided him with great opportunities to put up good QBR numbers, "hasn't show[n] a single sign of being a passing QB this year."  Technically, it might be a true statement, but its so obviously meaningless that you wouldn't say it.

post #107 of 1006
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

 

I'm not an expert on running backs, but I know defenses.  If you play against a team that has a subpar QB and suspended #1 WR, you stack the line to stop the run and make them beat you in the air.  TRich was dancing because the holes that were supposed to be open didn't exist.  He may not be worthy of a #3 overall pick (time will tell now that he's at Indy) but you can't expect any RB to be successful in an offense that has no passing threats.

 

Chris Ivory has a career average of almost 5 yards a carry but he's lucky to get 3 yards as a Jet for the same reason, no one is worried about the Jets passing game.

 

Here's a stat for you...

 
With Colt McCoy at QB and Greg "Brick Hands" Little as the Browns number one receiver, Peyton Hillis averaged an entire extra yard per carry with virtually the same quality offensive line, and even less offensive weapons. 
 
For the record, Peyton Hillis was drafted in the 7th round, and obtained via trade of Brady Quinn.
 
I don't wanna hear about the line...again, Adrian Peterson played in an even worse offense, and he didn't dance around. He has vision, patience, and burst that T-Rich just doesn't have.
post #108 of 1006
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post

Well QBR (the only stat that supports your argument, and thus, the one you hang your hat on) discounts anything done while in "garbage time," right?  So you're point isn't that he has shown any indication--this year--that he is not a good passing QB, just that he hasn't been in a position, this year, to show, as he already did last year, that he is a good passer?  If that's your point than sure, you are correct. But your point is meaningless. For example, you don't go around saying that Tom Brady, 22 in QBR, who played 2 close games that provided him with great opportunities to put up good QBR numbers, "hasn't show[n] a single sign of being a passing QB this year."  Technically, it might be a true statement, but its so obviously meaningless that you wouldn't say it.

Huh?

No troll: did you just start watching football last year?

RGIII was not a passing qb last year. He relied primarily on keeping defenses off balance with the pistol.

This season: the threat of the pistol is nonexistent, and up to this point, he has not showed any signs of being a passing qb.

My definition of a passing qb: a qb who wins games with arm strength, accuracy, reading defenses/calling audibles, etc. Not a qb who wins games with integrated run option plays.

It was easier for RGIII to play well last year bc there were literally 100's of plays the offense could've run, and opposing defenses were clueless as to what was coming at them. This year, the veil is gone.

What makes passing qbs so good is the defense knows the script: it's either a hand off/play action, or it's a drop back - stop it if you can. Up to this point, RGIII has showed no signs at all of being a passing qb, and the fact that you're disputing this is a little puzzling.

Final word: RGIII isn't a passing qb. I believe he has the tangibles and intangibles to be a very good passing qb - he just hasn't showed it so far this season.
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