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56 or 60 club face in a bunker ( various lays) - Page 5

post #73 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
 

It wouldn't take off. Doesn't matter of you spin the conveyor belt at the required speed, the wings are not moving relative to the air, so no lift. Now, if you take the wheels of the plane, set it on a conveyor belt that is lets say quarter mile long, and then move the belt at the required speed, the plane would take off. But if the plane, no pun intended, spinning its wheels, no lift.

 

I hate those questions though. My highschool physics teacher was evil for them. He would do stupid shit as well, like,

 

"If a squirrel was sliding down a frictionless roof (covered in ice), how much force would he have to throw the nuts it was carrying each each arm to stop himself from sliding." Like, WTF man. I'm taking an exam, none of this crap.

 

You should have listened to him a little more carefully.....  ;-)

 

 

OT for this thread, but for some fun reading on the subject, try this. 

 

http://thesandtrap.com/t/63320/plane-on-a-conveyor-belt

post #74 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
 

 

You should have listened to him a little more carefully.....  ;-)

 

 

OT for this thread, but for some fun reading on the subject, try this. 

 

http://thesandtrap.com/t/63320/plane-on-a-conveyor-belt

 

 

Yea, missed that thread ;), oops.

post #75 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
 

 

 

Yea, missed that thread ;), oops.

 

Stupid monkey

;-)

 

If it makes you feel better, it took me a while to wrap my head around it too and my reasoning was exactly the same as yours. But...but...airflow...wings...

post #76 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
 

It wouldn't take off. Doesn't matter of you spin the conveyor belt at the required speed, the wings are not moving relative to the air, so no lift. Now, if you take the wheels of the plane, set it on a conveyor belt that is lets say quarter mile long, and then move the belt at the required speed, the plane would take off. But if the plane, no pun intended, spinning its wheels, no lift.

 

Must...not...*head explodes*

 

You're better than this. lol

 

I'll leave it short...

 

The wheels don't make the plane move forward...they're essentially there to remove friction between the plane and the ground. Thrust makes the plane move forward, and those wheels will either spin faster than the conveyor or grind against it while spinning. Either way, that plane is getting the F*** outta there. 

post #77 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
 

It wouldn't take off. Doesn't matter of you spin the conveyor belt at the required speed, the wings are not moving relative to the air, so no lift. Now, if you take the wheels of the plane, set it on a conveyor belt that is lets say quarter mile long, and then move the belt at the required speed, the plane would take off. But if the plane, no pun intended, spinning its wheels, no lift.

 

I hate those questions though. My highschool physics teacher was evil for them. He would do stupid shit as well, like,

 

"If a squirrel was sliding down a frictionless roof (covered in ice), how much force would he have to throw the nuts it was carrying each each arm to stop himself from sliding." Like, WTF man. I'm taking an exam, none of this crap.

 

Result for the plane is entirely dependent on air speed.  Ground speed, conveyor belt speed are irrelevant.  If the conveyor belt is moving just as fast as the plane in the opposite direction, all that means is that the plane's wheels are spinning faster.  Airspeed is determined by thrust or propulsion, and is independent of how fast the wheels may be turning.  Airspeed and wing design are what cause lift, which is all that determines an airplane's ability to leave the ground.  

 
Now back to the wedge question, which has nothing to do with airplanes, conveyor belts, or friction. (I wasn't going to revive a year old thread for this brief deviation).  I'm waiting to see if Nick comes back to admit that he was rather off base or if he is still stuck on his contention that friction is what makes a wedge work.
post #78 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

 

 
Now back to the wedge question, which has nothing to do with airplanes, conveyor belts, or friction. (I wasn't going to revive a year old thread for this brief deviation).  I'm waiting to see if Nick comes back to admit that he was rather off base or if he is still stuck on his contention that friction is what makes a wedge work.

 

 

It could have everything to do with the wedge question. I mean, different grinds would have subtle changes in lift, there basically an airplane wing right. Get that grind just right and you'll either dig into the sand or not, that subtle millimeter of air lift is what matters ;)

post #79 of 121
If friction from the sand dosnt cause the ball to move forebears then why wouldn't the ball drop straight down into the divot you just created?
post #80 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick1998bunker View Post

If friction from the sand dosnt cause the ball to move forebears then why wouldn't the ball drop straight down into the divot you just created?

post #81 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post


ok so force of the sand pushes the ball? And friction makes it all possible
post #82 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick1998bunker View Post

If friction from the sand dosnt cause the ball to move forebears then why wouldn't the ball drop straight down into the divot you just created?

 

The energy transferred from the clubhead, through the sand and into the ball is what moves the ball.  When you are talking about several thousand grains of sand, the math might get a bit complicated, but it's the transference of the energy of all of those grains of sand against the ball that makes it move, and the sand is moved by transferring the energy from the clubhead into the sand.  The direction in which the ball moves depends on the vector of the force (which is determined by angle of the clubface and the direction the club is moving) when that force is applied to the ball.  Friction is not force, it is resistance to force.

post #83 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick1998bunker View Post

If friction from the sand dosnt cause the ball to move forebears then why wouldn't the ball drop straight down into the divot you just created?

 

I assume you mean forwards (auto-correct?), but for the 97th time, let's explain it...

 
If done right, the club never touches the ball. Never. Not for a second, not for a nanosecond. You're hitting the sand with the club in a forward motion. Even though the loft of the club at impact may be 90 degrees, the sand doesn't move straight up, because of the motion of the club. 
 
Without a ball in the bunker, open your clubface to 90 degrees. Then hit an imaginary blast shot. Where does the sand go? Forward...in the direction the ball would go...because the sand carries the ball. There's no ball, so in that scenario there is no ball/sand friction. 
post #84 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick1998bunker View Post


ok so force of the sand pushes the ball? And friction makes it all possible

 

Holy Christ...

 

Friction is responsible for bunker shots like air is responsible for the internet working. Without air, nobody would be alive, so the internet wouldn't work. Therefore, the internet was created by air. 

 

That's your argument.

post #85 of 121

I have to add one comment here.  I seriously doubt that a good bunker shot is ever played with the clubface at 90 degrees at impact, because in that case the ball will not move any significant distance.  Mine certainly isn't anywhere near 90°.  It's an optical illusion if that's what you think.  If anyone can prove me wrong, go for it, but just saying that's what it looks like won't cut the mustard.

post #86 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

The energy transferred from the clubhead, through the sand and into the ball is what moves the ball.  When you are talking about several thousand grains of sand, the math might get a bit complicated, but it's the transference of the energy of all of those grains of sand against the ball that makes it move, and the sand is moved by transferring the energy from the clubhead into the sand.  The direction in which the ball moves depends on the vector of the force (which is determined by angle of the clubface and the direction the club is moving) when that force is applied to the ball.  Friction is not force, it is resistance to force.
Ok so if the face is about 90* then what causes the sand to move foreword instead of straight up??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post

Holy Christ...

Friction is responsible for bunker shots like air is responsible for the internet working. Without air, nobody would be alive, so the internet wouldn't work. Therefore, the internet was created by air. 

That's your argument.
yes, kinda, not really, read above
post #87 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick1998bunker View Post


Ok so if the face is about 90* then what causes the sand to move foreword instead of straight up??
yes, kinda, not really, read above

 

Yes, not kind, really. 100%. 

 
YOU read above. Find my post above the one you quoted and read. You keep repeating yourself for no reason. 
post #88 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick1998bunker View Post

Ok so if the face is about 90* then what causes the sand to move foreword instead of straight up??

Which direction do you swing the club?

(Hint: it rhymes with "smoreword.")
post #89 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamo View Post


Which direction do you swing the club?

(Hint: it rhymes with "smoreword.")

 

Forebears?

post #90 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamo View Post

Which direction do you swing the club?

(Hint: it rhymes with "smoreword.")
Left

And your gonna say so the ball goes left

And my question would be why dose the ball go left if the face is 90

Hint: friction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post

Yes, not kind, really. 100%. 
 
YOU read above. Find my post above the one you quoted and read. You keep repeating yourself for no reason. 
Where?


Plus-- I don't know why we got into this whole friction thing because it isnt even relevant to what the thread is about
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