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Finchem says PGA Tour is "studying" Call-in Rules Violations - Page 6

Poll Results: How do you feel about viewers and spectators calling in rules violations?

 
  • 22% (19)
    Agree with it, always have.
  • 1% (1)
    Agree with it, disagreed before.
  • 6% (5)
    Disagree with it, but agreed before.
  • 69% (58)
    Disagree with it, always have.
83 Total Votes  
post #91 of 202
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

I'm in favor of equal application of the rules.  I'd favor a system whereby every hole on the course had cameras to watched everything the golfer did and ensure they didn't violate the rules.

 

I'm also okay with going with the trust system in place and disallowing call-in or outside influences to result in penalties.  I'm not okay with Tiger and D.A. Points committing the same rule violation and only Tiger getting penalized because he had 100 more cameras following him and his every action was being broadcast on television. 

 

I'm on board with this.  The first sentence would be "as close to the truth as possible" in my judgement.  Whereas what we have now is "as close to the truth as possible for popular guys and some of the guys in contention on the final day, and not for others."

post #92 of 202

The thought of turning over our greatest game to every yo-yo with a cellphone appalls me. It is on the honor of the player (and the game's rule officials) to know, abide by and call infractions upon themselves. Everyone else...butt out!

post #93 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnLund View Post
 

The thought of turning over our greatest game to every yo-yo with a cellphone appalls me. It is on the honor of the player (and the game's rule officials) to know, abide by and call infractions upon themselves. Everyone else...butt out!

 

And when they don't…?

post #94 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

And when they don't…?

 

I thought golf was the gentleman's sport where professional golfers are trustworthy and honorable.  If you believe that's no longer the case then they ALL (not just the ones worthy of television coverage) should have officials watching them like they do in the NFL, NHL and NBA.

post #95 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

I thought golf was the gentleman's sport where professional golfers are trustworthy and honorable.  If you believe that's no longer the case then they ALL (not just the ones worthy of television coverage) should have officials watching them like they do in the NFL, NHL and NBA.

 

Sometimes it's simply ignorance, not a lack of honor.

 

For example, Camilo Villegas.

post #96 of 202

For Villegas, I think it was more frustration than ignorance.  He was mad that he chipped it short for the second time and the ball rolled all the way back down the slope.  He swatted a chunk of divot away in frustration.

post #97 of 202
Thread Starter 

Was this Villegas incident recent?  I'd like to look it up.

 

I'm guessing this is it: http://sports.yahoo.com/golf/blog/devil_ball_golf/post/Villegas-disqualified-after-TV-viewer-called-him?urn=golf-304718

 

Videos appear to have been removed though.

post #98 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

Sometimes it's simply ignorance, not a lack of honor.

 

For example, Camilo Villegas.

We can agree to disagree on the topic since we're both fairly committed to our positions.

 

I'm curious if you're against officials watching every golfer so the rules are applied to everyone equally or are you just arguing that until officials are assigned to every hole or golfer you'd prefer call-ins be permitted?

post #99 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

We can agree to disagree on the topic since we're both fairly committed to our positions.

 

I'm curious if you're against officials watching every golfer so the rules are applied to everyone equally or are you just arguing that until officials are assigned to every hole or golfer you'd prefer call-ins be permitted?

 

If you think it's feasible for an official to watch every golfer (and caddie, and any coaches that might say things from the galleries, etc.), or that an official watching every player would result in the rules being applied equally (at the very least, officials will rule slightly differently), then I've got oceanfront property in Idaho to sell you. It's ridiculous to think that "one official per player" is a "solution" to this. I don't even agree that there's a PROBLEM in need of a solution. I'm quite content with the way things are now.

 

Again, someone please list for me EVERY call-in rules violation of the past decade. The list is very, very short, and doesn't include anything involving Tiger Woods this year.

post #100 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

Again, someone please list for me EVERY call-in rules violation of the past decade. The list is very, very short, and doesn't include anything involving Tiger Woods this year.

 

There really isn't a problem.

 

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/rex-hoggard/the-call-in-debate-on-tour/

Quote:

It should also be pointed out that Joe Quick Dial can’t slap two on Woods, or anyone else, if a faux pas is picked up via the hi-def. A viewer can call in a possible infraction – although we can’t say how fans track down a phone number to do so – but officials are going to review the tape multiple times and consult with the player before making a ruling.

It happens every week on Tour, with the vast majority leading to no violation.

post #101 of 202
We hear about it often enough but apparently erroneously. An urban legend I guess. Seems like each time a penalty is assessed after the fact, a rumor pops up that somebody called it in. I'll put my money on Fox News ... Those bastards. ;). (Except Megan Kelly, I like her! ;))
post #102 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

We hear about it often enough but apparently erroneously. An urban legend I guess. Seems like each time a penalty is assessed after the fact, a rumor pops up that somebody called it in. I'll put my money on Fox News ... Those bastards. ;). (Except Megan Kelly, I like her! ;))

Finchem said they don't penalize someone because of a call-in but they do review the video and determine if a penalty is appropriate and then issue the penalty.  It seems he's carefully selected his words to minimize the apparent effect of call-ins but only his office knows for sure what initiated the review process within his office.  

post #103 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

Finchem said they don't penalize someone because of a call-in but they do review the video and determine if a penalty is appropriate and then issue the penalty.  It seems he's carefully selected his words to minimize the apparent effect of call-ins but only his office knows for sure what initiated the review process within his office.  

 

I don't think he needs to minimize the effect. You wouldn't need to minimize the effect of (making this number up, but it's probably still too large) four call-ins in the past decade. Camilo Villegas (early 2011 season) is one. None of Tiger's this year were call-ins. The most recent was because a camera operator that filmed the footage said so. He was on-site, and caught it before Tiger had finished his round.

post #104 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

If you think it's feasible for an official to watch every golfer (and caddie, and any coaches that might say things from the galleries, etc.), or that an official watching every player would result in the rules being applied equally (at the very least, officials will rule slightly differently), then I've got oceanfront property in Idaho to sell you. It's ridiculous to think that "one official per player" is a "solution" to this. I don't even agree that there's a PROBLEM in need of a solution. I'm quite content with the way things are now.

 

Again, someone please list for me EVERY call-in rules violation of the past decade. The list is very, very short, and doesn't include anything involving Tiger Woods this year.

 

Not sure if a change is necessary, but not sure that the fact that different officials would rule differently is a good argument against it.  Seems to me that there would be more uniform rulings from officials than players making judgement calls for themselves.  I say this because I assume that all the officials would have good training in the rules where this certainly doesn't seem to be the case with all the players.  i.e. regarding virtual certainty a ball is in a hazard- different officials may rule differently, but I would guess they rule much more similar to each other than a group of players.  This is less of an issue when TV cameras are present, but at lower level tournaments without cameras could be more of an issue.  

 
 
Also, officials who are uncertain of a ruling could still consult with a head official for the tournament (similar to how players call in for a ruling now.
post #105 of 202
Not fair because only the leaders that have cameras on them are being penalized....

If you were in 70th position, made the same mistake, viewers would not have seen it and called in.
post #106 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by clutchshot View Post

Not fair because only the leaders that have cameras on them are being penalized....

If you were in 70th position, made the same mistake, viewers would not have seen it and called in.

 

So the likelihood of drawing a large paycheck is a penalty now?  I'd think that a little extra scrutiny is a small price to pay for kind of money that the top 25 will receive in any PGA tournament these days.  You guys are getting way too particular, citing one small potential deficit in a situation which any of us arguing this out here would give anything to be a part of.  

 
If you were in 70th position an incidentally unnoticed breach would have little or no effect on the outcome of the tournament.  For a player in the top ten on the leaderboard, it very well might have a big impact.  For that reason alone I don't care about the relatively uneven application of video evidence.  Once again, nothing in the rules has ever said that anything about the game is supposed to be fair.
post #107 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

Once again, nothing in the rules has ever said that anything about the game is supposed to be fair.
but isn't that because it's implied? No game needs to have a rule that states "this game is fair" because that is the most important underlying premise of any game. Fairness lies in the equal application of the games rules. If a said games rules are not applied equally (an umpires strike zone doesn't have to match the rule book, but it certainly has to match for each team) then said game isn't fair.

And while I have conceded that on the weekend it's no big deal (all leaders are basically on tv equally), on Thursday and Friday its still a different story.
post #108 of 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post

Once again, nothing in the rules has ever said that anything about the game is supposed to be fair.
but isn't that because it's implied? No game needs to have a rule that states "this game is fair" because that is the most important underlying premise of any game. Fairness lies in the equal application of the games rules. If a said games rules are not applied equally (an umpires strike zone doesn't have to match the rule book, but it certainly has to match for each team) then said game isn't fair.

And while I have conceded that on the weekend it's no big deal (all leaders are basically on tv equally), on Thursday and Friday its still a different story.

 

Fair treatment in the rules of any game means that all players are subject to the same rules. 

 
Unfair is the opposite ... unfair is not "Boo, hoo, my ball ended up in a divot hole." or "Boo, hoo, my ball moved and I didn't see it, but someone else did."
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