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Why does Tiger HAVE to hit the cut? - Page 3

post #37 of 80

I figure he's just playing the percentages as he sees them at the time. Nobody would be able to know those percentages except him because they could change from day to day.

 

Sometimes you have to go with what you think you are doing best and will get you in the least trouble if it goes wrong...And then get second guessed by everybody including yourself when it doesn't work.

post #38 of 80
I agree MS256 I know just for me there are some holes that just look like they set up good for a cut so I play it. I can hit the draw and do now and again but I have a better idea of where my miss is with the cut. I think Tiger can do both it just seems to me that he's got a better idea of where the cut is going to end up.
post #39 of 80

Some really fine posting above ...

 

I've always thought, as others above have stated, that Tiger's range driver swing and tournament driver swing - don't match up.

 

Perhaps Haney and Foley were/are overmatched.

 

It's easy for these gurus to state "here are your issues" and it's a whole 'nother world in giving their player the drills or feelings to correct those issues.

post #40 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond View Post
 

It's easy for these gurus to state "here are your issues" and it's a whole 'nother world in giving their player the drills or feelings to correct those issues.

 

Count me in the camp who read Haney's book.  He mentioned a couple of times in the book that Tiger filters out any advice he doesn't find relevant.  

If Tiger doesn't see it as an issue then he won't change it.  I think Hank said it's close to 95% that Tiger dismisses.  

 

As for not drawing the ball, I think it was mentioned above, Haney took the left side of the course right out of play for Tiger.  When he misses (missed) big, it was left if the form of a monsterous hook.  Most big misses (hence the title of his book) were unplayable in the left rough/trees.  

Butch wanted him to hit the ball 330 yards every time and draw it, Haney took that away and wanted him 310 in the fairway and Foley is in between them, learn to control the draw but the cut is the go-to shot.

post #41 of 80

I think he was good under both Hank and Butch(obviously). I do like how his swing looks under Sean though.  It seems as if he has more control over his longer clubs(besides his driver) and his wedge play is excellent.  I might be wrong but I think his driving accuracy is the best its been in a while I know hes been hitting a lot of 3 woods but thats not a bad thing. When hes in the fairway hes pretty deadly with his approach shots.

post #42 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutter View Post

We all know he's had a good year, I'm attempting to discuss his thought process when he's hitting the ball poorly.  Also, he didn't win a major and hasn't done so since 08 which makes the year a failure in his mind. 

I already argued against #1 in my OP, I've seen him play the cut numerous times when the hole didn't set up for it.
How many majors did you win this year? Jk but also people can have a go to shot where they hit that under pressure. And did you get a chance to look at the lie? I noticed a couple of holes where a hook lie made him play the draw
post #43 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Augustabound View Post
 

 

Count me in the camp who read Haney's book.  He mentioned a couple of times in the book that Tiger filters out any advice he doesn't find relevant.  

If Tiger doesn't see it as an issue then he won't change it.  I think Hank said it's close to 95% that Tiger dismisses.  

 

As for not drawing the ball, I think it was mentioned above, Haney took the left side of the course right out of play for Tiger.  When he misses (missed) big, it was left if the form of a monsterous hook.  Most big misses (hence the title of his book) were unplayable in the left rough/trees.  

Butch wanted him to hit the ball 330 yards every time and draw it, Haney took that away and wanted him 310 in the fairway and Foley is in between them, learn to control the draw but the cut is the go-to shot.

 

Count me in the camp that will not read Haney's book - Hank, from the stories of those who worked for him, is fairly self-serving, and interested in, surprise, in his brand, which is about money. He seems like a nice guy on the radio, but it's his brand ... there is a man behind the brand. The book promotes the brand, and the stories as factually true? The only ones who know are the principals... Hank pushes his brand.

 

Before Hank left Tiger, I heard the stories from Haney instructors - Hank would mention something to Tiger, and 3-4 months later, Tiger would ask about it again. That's not dismissive ... it is distrusting, and says something about Tiger.

post #44 of 80

Oh Haney comes right out in the book and says that.  He said that being Tiger's coach would be great for his career and his business.  

 

Haney also says in the book that Tiger dismisses most of what he said, only rarely would he either work with it or ask later.

 

Tiger doesn't trust anyone but himself, especially with his golf game.

post #45 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Augustabound View Post
 

Oh Haney comes right out in the book and says that.  He said that being Tiger's coach would be great for his career and his business.  

 

Haney also says in the book that Tiger dismisses most of what he said, only rarely would he either work with it or ask later.

 

Tiger doesn't trust anyone but himself, especially with his golf game.

 

Well, I guess we better discuss the cut ... lol... I just think that neither coach got into Tiger's mind. As to Hank, he knows what's wrong, but as we saw with Barkley and other celebs, giving them the drills or feels to change their patterns is a whole 'nother world (as stated previously). At the moment, I am still unlearning everything that Hank's instructors taught me during his hey-day '95-2007. They just were not that good ... but they were expensive.

 

As to hitting a draw, I think one can control a push-draw. It's a matter of face angle and path.

post #46 of 80

As to your point above about how much in his book was truthful etc.  He did come off as too nice a guy and he played it up like he was somewhat submissive to Tiger. 

 

I guess it's all in how you frame it. 

 

I can also see how he was in a way, building an empire.  He made frequent references to the Haney School running on all cylinders and not needing him day to day.  It was only your post that made me think about the cost and he was making money off it while not being there (expensive).

post #47 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Augustabound View Post
 

As to your point above about how much in his book was truthful etc.  He did come off as too nice a guy and he played it up like he was somewhat submissive to Tiger. 

 

I guess it's all in how you frame it. 

 

I can also see how he was in a way, building an empire.  He made frequent references to the Haney School running on all cylinders and not needing him day to day.  It was only your post that made me think about the cost and he was making money off it while not being there (expensive).

 

Right before I left Haney's guys, one was talking about how Haney had learned from Tiger ... and I said, what happened?  One instructor talked about how he watched Hank give an hour lesson to a good player that had none of Hank's "stuff" in it. When he started to explain and show, I noticed TGM/MORAD aspects to it, but he had no idea what it was. So who was teaching who? It's hard to say...

post #48 of 80
Let's say you're #1 in the world then you change swing coaches - I can see Tiger being apprehensive on applying everything his new swing coach preaches.
post #49 of 80
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond View Post
 

 

Well, I guess we better discuss the cut ... lol... I just think that neither coach got into Tiger's mind. As to Hank, he knows what's wrong, but as we saw with Barkley and other celebs, giving them the drills or feels to change their patterns is a whole 'nother world (as stated previously). At the moment, I am still unlearning everything that Hank's instructors taught me during his hey-day '95-2007. They just were not that good ... but they were expensive.

 

As to hitting a draw, I think one can control a push-draw. It's a matter of face angle and path.

 

I'm with you as far as Hank goes.  He even had Ray Romano on there who in my opinion was the perfect case for him to show what he can do, and Ray almost made no improvement.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nick1998bunker View Post


How many majors did you win this year? Jk but also people can have a go to shot where they hit that under pressure. And did you get a chance to look at the lie? I noticed a couple of holes where a hook lie made him play the draw

 

That's putting my game and Tiger's standards in the same realm, doesn't and will never match up.  

post #50 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutter View Post
 

 

I'm with you as far as Hank goes.  He even had Ray Romano on there who in my opinion was the perfect case for him to show what he can do, and Ray almost made no improvement.  

 

 

I think Ray improved, but mostly because he was practicing more. Thing with a show like the Haney project is the student needs to practice and work on the things suggested by the instructor. Ray was busy trying to get his acting career back on track with his older men show that was cancelled. So who knows how much extra time he put in. 

 

I think Haney was a bit lost coaching Tiger. After having read the book a while ago I have come to think that Hank was always going to be in awe of Tiger (as anybody involved in golf is likely to be) and really didn't have a long term plan. He gave Tiger band aids and then Tiger went along doing his own thing and Hank would try another band aid. If this was the case he should have quit working with Tiger two years earlier. But that would have lost him too much money and his brand would have suffered. So he soldiered on.

post #51 of 80
One of the things that intrigued me about Haney's book was nervousness Tiger had coming into a major tournament, particularly the first tee. I had him figured as stone cold ice in his veins.
post #52 of 80

I think Tiger has always naturally faded the ball - the old saying goes if you ever wanted to see Tiger up close - stand about 300 yards down the fairway on the right.

post #53 of 80

Now let's get to the current cult of the cut ... Foley, who appears on the cover of Golf Digest.

 

Not enough knowledge with lots of smoke and mirrors, besides the $100 vocabulary?

post #54 of 80

He swings the club so fast the natural tendancy is to hit down on the ball, across the body. He controls it well most of the time but to hit an accurate draw with his swing speed would be much, much more difficult.

 

My swing speed is faster than the average guy and I tend to go after shots from the tee more so than off the fairway. I couldnt hit a controlled draw swinging the club at the same speed I hit a controlled fade / cut and Tiger likes to go after his shots more often than not.

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