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What do you think a golfer on the PGA tour would score at your local public golf course? - Page 2

post #19 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by dennyjones View Post
 

I live near Grand Blanc, MI where the Buick Open use to be played.   Even when the pros came in and the PGA made the course tough, the winner was usually around 25 under for the four days.    Warwick Hills is about the second most difficult course (pubic or private) in the area.  

 

The winner played the best golf that week.  When I think of a hypothetical question like this, I'm postulating about the average pro on their average day (not on fire, not playing poorly).

post #20 of 49

The Washington Post answered this question at my local muni in DC, East Potomac (no water, wide fairways, slow greens), a few years ago with a PGA rookie. He shot 68 on a 70.5/115 course -- and struggled on the sloooow, bumpy greens. 

 

You can read about it here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/01/AR2007070101221.html

 

And see the scorecard, here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2007/07/02/GR2007070201510.html

post #21 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by pucks2golf View Post
 

The Washington Post answered this question at my local muni in DC, East Potomac (no water, wide fairways, slow greens), a few years ago with a PGA rookie. He shot 68 on a 70.5/115 course -- and struggled on the sloooow, bumpy greens. 

 

You can read about it here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/01/AR2007070101221.html

 

And see the scorecard, here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2007/07/02/GR2007070201510.html

 

Wow, great resource!  I'll contribute a couple additional links:

 
http://www.pgatour.com/players/player.28158.steve-marino.html : Steve Marino's PGA Tour profile.  Has one top 25 finish this year in 12 starts, so obviously towards the lower spectrum of the touring pros, but still on the tour.  Has $9MM in career winnings.
 
http://www.oobgolf.com/courses/scorecard.php?id=310841 : Golf card with course hole handicaps from oobgolf.
 
Of note is that the pro was -3 on the par 5s, and -1 for the rest of the round with three bogeys.  The article is a great read as well.  Some highlights:
 
Quote:
His professional playing partners lauded his consistent putting and perfect ball-striking. Almost one-third of his rounds this season had ended with scores in the 60s. He had converted more birdies than all but seven players on the PGA Tour. 
 
When my friends and co-workers projected those stats on East Potomac's wide-open, 6,600-yard layout, they imagined a result usually reserved for video games such as "Golden Tee." Marino would drive the green on many par-4s and eagle most par-5s, friends predicted. He would roll in long putts on flat, uncomplicated greens. He would flirt with a few hole-in-ones, make at least 10 birdies, finish somewhere around 57 or 58 and shatter the East Potomac course record -- if such a record exists.

  

Quote:
 "Oh, man, I'm feeling pretty stiff," Marino said. "I think I can still go low 60s."
 

He shot a 68. Make that an ugly 68.

The par-4 first hole was emblematic of Marino's round. He crushed a drive 320 yards down the right side of the fairway, almost all the way to the green, only to find the ball settled in a pile of twigs. Marino wasted his next shot chopping the ball out into the grass, and then he pitched his third shot to within 12 feet of the pin. He struck what felt like a pure putt, but the ball ran over sand and stopped a few inches short of the hole. Marino stood on the green and shook his head. "Ridiculous. Just ridiculous," he said. Then he tapped in for bogey.

 

After Marino left two consecutive putts short on No. 11, he dropped his putter on the green.

"I'm killing it, and it doesn't go anywhere," he said. "I might just start putting with my driver."

 

One of the funniest passages I found is when Marino is completely miffed by the course maintenance crew that was working in the middle of the fairway on one of the holes.  This guy really didn't know what it was like slumming it with us regular folk.  :-D

post #22 of 49
73.3/125, 7035 yards from the tips. The greens are smallish, but pretty quick. There is not a lot of trouble, but on a couple of places, if you get in trouble it can cost you. At least one and maybe 2 of the par 5's could be driver/wedge for pros, the other two driver and 6-8 iron. If they stay out of trouble, and putt well, 60-62.

In thinking about this, I came upon another thought. The regular tees 70.4/123 and 6338 yards are close to perfect for me, but I think I could score similarly from the tips because it would take some of the trouble out of play, and I might be better off short of some of the smallish greens instead of in trouble beside them.
post #23 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbuck View Post

 I might be better off short of some of the smallish greens instead of in trouble beside them.

 

words to live by .... I've adopted this strategy this year & it's worked out far better for me on long approach shots - much rather have a short chip in, that to have to hit a lob wedge flop shot up over the side of a green ...

post #24 of 49

id love to see these guys on my greens.  slow, inconsistent speed from green to green, spike marks all over from the fat-asses that cant pick up their feet, greens that are pockmarked with unfixed or badly fixed pitch marks...god forbid they ever putt on greens that were aerated the day before...

post #25 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbuck View Post

73.3/125, 7035 yards from the tips. The greens are smallish, but pretty quick. There is not a lot of trouble, but on a couple of places, if you get in trouble it can cost you. At least one and maybe 2 of the par 5's could be driver/wedge for pros, the other two driver and 6-8 iron. If they stay out of trouble, and putt well, 60-62.

In thinking about this, I came upon another thought. The regular tees 70.4/123 and 6338 yards are close to perfect for me, but I think I could score similarly from the tips because it would take some of the trouble out of play, and I might be better off short of some of the smallish greens instead of in trouble beside them.

That's a differential of about 11-13.  Why would you think they would shoot 6 to 8 strokes better than their approximate handicap?

 

If you assume they hit all the par 5's in two (although at a course of over 7000 yards, there would have to be a couple of 3-shotters) and birdie all four, you are thinking there would be 6-8 other birdie holes, with no bogies.  I've got to say that would be an absolutely great putting day.

 

I agree that shooting under par should be the norm, but shooting 60-62 requires making a ton of putts, and not screwing up any approaches or chips.

post #26 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post
 

I agree that shooting under par should be the norm, but shooting 60-62 requires making a ton of putts, and not screwing up any approaches or chips.

 

Not only do I think this is the salient point, but when you combine it with the generally accepted belief that public course greens will be significantly more unpredictable than pro tour greens, it illustrates how difficult it would be for the average touring pro to simply show up at a course and go extremely low.

 

A few months ago I made the comment that when hypothesizing about the touring pro taking his  pro game to our public courses, we imagine all of the benefits that brings (incredible ball-striking and length) but ignore all of the cons of the public course and non tournament playing (bad bunkers, bad greens, and unkept parts of the course that are off of the fairways).

 

In the Steve Marino experiment, that resulted in the guy who shoots 98, shooting 98, and the guy who could shoot mid-to-low 60s, "only" shooting an "ugly" 68.

post #27 of 49

My local muni is well kept, has nice greens, little sand but is not easy for the average golfer. 70.8 rating, 136 slope from the back tees which are just over 6400 yards. The greens are true and probably run 7-8.

 

I'd guess a PGA Tour pro would only hit driver on 5-6 holes and would easily be in the low 60's.

post #28 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkim291968 View Post
 

6865 yards, par 72, 72.3/123

 

On a good day, I think he can birdie all par 5s (they all reachable in two), a few short par 4s (2 are reachable), and birdie 1 or 2 par 3s.    That spells 62, give or take a few shots. 

 

The course condition is terrible compare to what the guys are used to.  I believe that will prevent these guys from scoring sub 60 round.  

 

In another local course with similar rating, the greens are so bad that the same pro will shoot 70.   They are by far the slowest green I've ever played on.   To make it worse, there are poorly repaired ball marks, bald or wet spots, ,,,, you name it.   Fairways are not any better and balls can easily end up in a deep divot.  

post #29 of 49

I think the top guys would break 60 fairly often, with their average score being in the 62ish range.

post #30 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddog10 View Post
 

I think the top guys would break 60 fairly often, with their average score being in the 62ish range.

 

I agree with this guy

post #31 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddog10 View Post
 

I think the top guys would break 60 fairly often, with their average score being in the 62ish range.

 

I think people underestimate how the good conditions on the PGA Tour allow for the scores they shoot. I think most PGA Tour players would be hard pressed to average 62 or lower so long as the course yardage isn't silly short.

post #32 of 49

John Mallinger plays my home course occasionally with some of the men's club guys. My understanding is that he usually shoots 65-69 or so during their outings. He is a good, but not quite elite touring pro. I'd say the top guys could probably flirt with low 60's when they are playing well.

post #33 of 49
We often thought about that over the years at a couple of courses, like in those "Marino Experiences" stated above. I was most curious about the Black at Bethpage BEFORE the USGA fiddling and in the normal conditions that the rest of had had to endure. At that time (early to mid 80's), they did take a LITTLE better care of the Black than the others, it wasn't a Country CLub experience by any means. The USGA took away a LOT of trees, reduced the fescue amounts for spectator comfort and expanded the rough areas along the fairways. For example- fairways would have a first cut of about 3ft wide, a second cut of 4-6" rough another 3 feet wide then endless fields of fescue up to 3 feet high to the treelines. While the fairways were wider than the USGA setups, you HAD TO HIT them of you were toast. You were lucky to find a ball, much less actually play it. After the USGA make over, the rough was tamed a bit, and the fescue that the talking heads loved to play up about it's severity, only extended about 10-15 yds off the fairway and was severely thinned out, so you could blast away and if a fade missed left or right, you would end up where the spectators were and the fescue was gone. Certainly not the penal conditions the normal people played before hand. Taking THAT into account a midrange pro on an average day certainly wouldn't bring it to it's knees in it's original conditions as a semi neglected public course. Most of the other courses we play would only give them fits on the greens. Most are inconsistent and on the slower side. But I think that if your course has greens that are true, any pro can get them wired pretty quick even if they aren't "tour speeds". If they aren't particularly smooth and a bit bumpy, NOBODY can get a grip on them and putt well.
post #34 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post
 

 

The winner played the best golf that week.  When I think of a hypothetical question like this, I'm postulating about the average pro on their average day (not on fire, not playing poorly).

 

The winner was about 25 under but almost everyone was 17-22 under.   Look at 2009, the top 36 were 10 under or better and Tiger who won was -20 shooting a low round Friday of 63. 

 

http://espn.go.com/golf/leaderboard?tournamentId=550

post #35 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by TourSpoon View Post

I had a friend that was a mini-tour player that I played a few rounds with.He had played on the Canadian Tour, Tommy Armour Tour, the Safari Tour and the Buy.Com Tour and had played some PGA events and even made a couple of cuts. He was so close to getting his card, but never quite made it, but he still has official PGA stats on their website.

Anyway, I will tell you one story. I brought him to the course I worked at to play a match against two guys. This was the first time that I had played with him so I didn't know what to expect (working at a course in South Florida there are many people that claim great things that never deliver, the funny thing about him was that he never made great claims and he did deliver). He has never seen this course before and we are playing it @ 6700 yards (we are talking steel drivers and balatas here). On the third hole I failed to tell him of a pond if you hit a long draw that is over a hill. Well I had never seen anyone hit it that far before and he had to drop it on a severe slope and play back to the fairway. He made a double. From there I made sure that I gave him the whole picture. He had two birdies on the front to get back to even and then closed with a -5 (31) on the back to shoot a smooth 67. It was insane. He won me $60 (the guys were down $30 on the 18th and pressed only to have him birdie the par 5).

I posted this in 08, 16 years after the actual round. At my home course the greens were no where near tour quality and the bunkers were the same. It was that once he had a scoring club in his hand he was money. The 67 should have been a 65 on a course he had never seen thanks to my bad advice on a blind tee shot. It taught me just how good these guys are. They all don't grow up at private clubs and they don't need perfect conditions to score. My friend even shot 29 on the back nine of Doral and couldn't keep his card.
post #36 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by TourSpoon View Post


I posted this in 08, 16 years after the actual round. At my home course the greens were no where near tour quality and the bunkers were the same. It was that once he had a scoring club in his hand he was money. The 67 should have been a 65 on a course he had never seen thanks to my bad advice on a blind tee shot. It taught me just how good these guys are. They all don't grow up at private clubs and they don't need perfect conditions to score. My friend even shot 29 on the back nine of Doral and couldn't keep his card.

 

Would you say he played well, average, really good, or what?

 
A 65 seems like about what I would expect regularly for these guys on a normal day for them (i.e., playing well).  It's the claims of "averaging 62" with "regularly" breaking 60 that I think are a bit far-fetched.
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