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The (un)Affordable Health Care Act & Debt Ceiling Controversies - Page 8

post #127 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
 

 

that is true, that is why the best thing would be allowing everyone to have a health savings account when they are born. Then the government can just put the subsidy there. So by the time they reach adult hood, they have a buffer for basic needs care. Like I said, I don't mind insurance to cover rare injuries or diseases. But basic needs can easily be covered through other methods. This would allow the patient to control the money, and to shop around. The odds of someone breaking a bone is so much less than getting a common cold. You don't need a 200-500 dollar fee to get checked for a common cold.

 

Yes part of the problem is living pay check to pay check, but here's a question. Should we be basically supporting this mentality by covering the problems they never seem to want to save for. Meaning, why should we keep covering people's debts so they can buy huge houses, cars, TV's, ect... If people just lived with in their means and saved, they wouldn't be going into bankruptcy as often. Having the government cover their issues allows them to be reckless. Lets take it to golf, what if we say for a round of golf that all water hazards are not hazards, just drop a ball no penalty. How much more reckless would you be.

 

I agree, there should be a means-testing.

I'm a big proponent of health savings accounts, and your proposal is interesting and one I've never heard of. As a public policy professional, though, I'd really need to stew on it before I could agree ;-)

 

I also hear you about the personal responsibility thing. It tears me up professionally. It's getting to the point where we either have to further embrace a nanny state or literally let people suffer until they either die in the cold or make changes. Current emergency medical costs, though, are something many people rely upon insurance for and would be very difficult to budget for. You're right, though. Anyone with common sense and a high school diploma should be able to budget for regular check-ups, the sniffles, and dental/vision costs. Too bad they often can't and they usually have kids in the mix. Those are the ones who really suffer.

 

Lots of issues out there. You seem like a sensible person and that's encouraging at least.

post #128 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond View Post
 

It is the duty of government to protect its people. The degree of protection, what is protected, and whom is protected is always under discussion.

 

In fact, it's been decided in the case of health care.

 

It's the law.


except they arent protecting the people. Slowing the development of the country. And Im all for protection, but i think the military does a good enough job. Congress can worry about real issues, like getting rid of some dept. Which Im sorry to say requires to defund some of those democratic bills.

post #129 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick1998bunker View Post
 


except they arent protecting the people. Slowing the development of the country. And Im all for protection, but i think the military does a good enough job. Congress can worry about real issues, like getting rid of some dept. Which Im sorry to say requires to defund some of those democratic bills.

 

While I don't agree with the shenanigans that just played out in D.C., the "partial shutdown" and the furloughs of the so-called "non-essential" parts of government had me thinking about goverment's role.    It occurs to me that there really should not be any "non-essential" government jobs or departments.  Everything the government does should be an essential function or goverment should not be doing it at all.   If there truly are "non-essential" government departments and/or jobs, those should be eliminated and eliminated now.    I suspect that alone would save several million dollars.

post #130 of 298

According to Sicko, a Michael Moore film, close to fifty million Americans are uninsured. The U.S. health care system is ranked 37 out of 191 by the World health Organization - health measures such as infant mortality and life expectancy in the U.S. are equal to countries with far less economic wealth. In the United Kingdom in-hospital expenses incurred by patients are met with no out-of-pocket payments. UK pharmaceuticals are free for persons under 16 or over 60. Now I understand that there is no free lunch but our health care system needs an extreme makeover.

post #131 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan Jeff View Post
 

According to Sicko, a Michael Moore film, close to fifty million Americans are uninsured. The U.S. health care system is ranked 37 out of 191 by the World health Organization - health measures such as infant mortality and life expectancy in the U.S. are equal to countries with far less economic wealth. In the United Kingdom in-hospital expenses incurred by patients are met with no out-of-pocket payments. UK pharmaceuticals are free for persons under 16 or over 60. Now I understand that there is no free lunch but our health care system needs an extreme makeover.

 

Your going to come in here to a logical and respectful argument and quote Michael Moore, really? 

 

Yes about 50 million, closer to 45 million are uninsured, so what? 

 

Lets just go at this statistically. United States Infant mortality rate is 6.7 per 1000 births. France is 3.3 per 1000 births. Here's the thing, you can't just look at this as straight numbers, because France is a population of 65 million, USA is a population of 315 million. Meaning, there are more chances for infant mortality. Its easier to keep a statistic like that down, when you have less people to worry about. 

 

Here's another problem. France has 66 hospital beds per 100,000 people. United States has 30 per 100,000 people. Think that doesn't play a factor, that's not even health insurance. That is just the number of hospitals, which relates back to the population. Its harder to lower important health factors when your population is near 4-5x larger than the comparing country. 

 

Also another factor is overall GDP. If your country has more GDP, things will cost more. You think business in America are going to charge the same price as in France for something, no. Why would they, there is more money in America. So you can't just say things will equal another country, the way Michael Moore makes all his shallow arguments. 

 

Also Life Expectancy can not be related back to GDP, why? Because there are so many factors to go into it. How about this one. Nearly 50% of people in the United States are Overweight and over 35% of them are Obese. Obesity leads to Diabetes, Heart Failure, Cancer, and Alzheimer's. Money can't cure fat people. What about stressful lives, America is the land of face paced, everything has to be done now, never waste time. France is laid back, easy going. Stress has been linked to many things as just getting sick more often, to exacerbating heart problems.

 

Yet, Obama care taxes new medical research and technologies. If we want to improve life expectancy, why stifle research that could cure cancer, or Alzheimer's? Cleveland Clinic is already making massive lay offs due to the new taxes Obamacare is putting on them. One of the leading heart hospitals in the nation. Talking about doing damage, I am sure Michael Moore would be proud though right, being such a staunch supporter of Obama. 

 

Micheal Moore will spout all these stats, to tear at the heart string's of Americans, but he is nothing but a liberal lap dog to stir up public unrest. Is the system not perfect, yea. Do we need people like Michael Moore, NO!!! 

post #132 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by teamroper60 View Post
 

 

While I don't agree with the shenanigans that just played out in D.C., the "partial shutdown" and the furloughs of the so-called "non-essential" parts of government had me thinking about goverment's role.    It occurs to me that there really should not be any "non-essential" government jobs or departments.  Everything the government does should be an essential function or goverment should not be doing it at all.   If there truly are "non-essential" government departments and/or jobs, those should be eliminated and eliminated now.    I suspect that alone would save several million dollars.

Non-essential is a semantic term. They tried to backtrack on it as soon as the press caught hold of it. I'm not saying the Federal Government isn't bloated, but "non-essential" was an awful mistake on the part of the White House press team. 

post #133 of 298
I don't think a 3% tax will stifle anything

If prefer if they would scrap the tax code, simplify it , and go for lower rates, and tax other things at low, low rates. But they can't get their act together
post #134 of 298
I don't really know what is all going down but why don't they just pass a bill saying you are required by law to get health care. Or I suppose they could leave it alone all together. But the first one would be a bit of a compromise
post #135 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond View Post

If prefer if they would scrap the tax code, simplify it , and go for lower rates, and tax other things at low, low rates. But they can't get their act together

A simplified tax law is an ideal. It would be nice if we could.

In an ideal system, government spending should only depend upon the surplus of the private sector.

We exceeded that threshold years ago. Now, we even have to coerce other countries into buying our government debt. What other country can do this?

I don't know if the world will keep supporting our government for long, even if it could. Our government is getting way too big.
post #136 of 298
Logical and respectful argument and you bark out "so what". Take a Xanax pal, I say the system needs improvement.
post #137 of 298
Uninsured doesn't matter. Some want insurance and can't, some just don't want it. That's why I said so what. You throw out stats, yet you don't explain why. So I asked, so what. It's a legit question. By your response, it looks like you need that Xanax.
post #138 of 298

why kick tea Partiers in the balls? Because we advocate smaller, less expensive government? What kind of shit is that?

post #139 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by madolive3 View Post
 

why kick tea Partiers in the balls? Because we advocate smaller, less expensive government? What kind of shit is that?

 

Advocating for smaller and less expensive government is one thing.  I am all for that.  However wasting time and/or money on something they don't have a prayer of getting passed (or in this case defunded) is another.   Frankly, toying with federal workers and our nation's credit rating like they did should be criminal. 

post #140 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post
 

I hope you guys figure it out, everyone deserves health care.

 

I remember reading somewhere that something like +90%* of US bankruptcies are health related. That is sad, you've done nothing wrong, you've worked hard and have been financially responsible and POW, you get sick/injured and you lose you house and cannot provide for your family. Crazy stuff.

 

 

totally made up number, don't remember the actual number but whatever it was, it was too high...:no:

 

 

I remember 30 years ago my father was on vacation in Cuba, he fell off a horse and busted up his knee really bad. They went to the hospital and got all fixed up and they all just called him Brian. NO ONE EVER ASKED WHAT HIS LAST NAME WAS LET ALONE WHO HIS INSURANCE PROVIDER WAS!!! Now I'm no communist, but they sure got that part right!


Ask regular Cuban Citizens about their health care. Think they get MRIs? Food? Clean sheets? Essential drugs? No, Only if family or Charity brings food. Only if family brings sheets. Only if they may be available amid shortages. Do you realy think some Cuban farmer who gets Cancer gets better treatment than the average Cancer patient in the US???? Like in all commie countries you only see what they allow and that's just fine with the liberals in this country because they have been trying to convince Americans how bad our health care is. Fact is anyone can get health care in this county. Not perfect but  certainly better than anything else out there. So you have to pay for health insurance, so what, most uninsured people can afford to buy insurance but choose not to, and those who can't are already eligible for some Gov. program. I always hear how the Europeans are better, Really??/ They can't afford their health care either. If the US didn't take on the burden of defending the euros and propping up their economies for the last 50 years most of Europe would look like Greece and Spain, or worse. Nobody hears about the death rates in Europe from cancer and other disease because wait times for treatment can run 6 months or more.

 Why should health care be free? Is it some sort of rite? What else should be free? Housing? A job? a degree? Fact is people are treated in this country all the time who can't pay or don't want to pay, so what. We have  a lot of Medical related Bankruptcies, so what. That's what Bankruptcy is for. compared to the unemployment and underemployment that we already are experiencing with this socialist government in Washington, Bankruptcies are going to become a lot more numerous.   Reducing the quality of Health care for all Americans except the Rich and the Washington Elite to address the shortcomings in our system is not the answer and is immoral. 

  90,000,000 Workers out of our work force and counting. Unemployment too high? Just change the way you tabulate the numbers.  Ask the Southern Europeans how there governments  are working out for them.

post #141 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond View Post
 

The reality is that China is lobbying to get the world community away from the dollar as the currency of choice.

 

When that happens, our ability to dominate erodes.

 

China's GDP is also double that of Japan and growing rapidly. The US has time to get its act together but the trend is not favorably when you have Ted Cruz arm-twisting tea baggers and Jim DeMent of the Heritage Foundation attempting to control the House by saying this is a key vote - and we will downgrade your conservatism if you don't vote our way ... and one of these clowns is in the Senate and the other is not even an elected official. Boehner doesn't have much of a chance if he won't bring a vote unless he has a  majority of his caucus.

 

 

Here is a conservative Dallas businessman with ties to the Bush family on the tea baggers:

 

"We are not looking for a wrecking party to govern,” said Jim Oberwetter, the head of the Dallas Regional Chamber and a former executive with Hunt Oil Co. who has close ties to the Bush family. “That is nonsensical. … In a country like ours, you have to make compromises.”

The tea party, he said, has become a voice for anarchy and business leaders should stand up for the kind of political approach that values solutions over ideology.


Tea Bagger?? You wouldn't call me a tea Bagger to my face,  You are  a typical internet moron.. The  Tea party stands for smaller Government plane and simple.  They put pressure on politicians like any other political movement. . This is typical of the liberals, attack and marginalize those who disagree with or threaten your socialist agenda.

post #142 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post
 

They are only empowered because the majority of Republicans are allowing them to be.  Mainstream GOP needs to take back their party.  And right now, they are not making laws, only wreaking havoc.  


No you are wrong, we are empowered by the Constitution.

post #143 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan Jeff View Post
 

According to Sicko, a Michael Moore film, close to fifty million Americans are uninsured. The U.S. health care system is ranked 37 out of 191 by the World health Organization - health measures such as infant mortality and life expectancy in the U.S. are equal to countries with far less economic wealth. In the United Kingdom in-hospital expenses incurred by patients are met with no out-of-pocket payments. UK pharmaceuticals are free for persons under 16 or over 60. Now I understand that there is no free lunch but our health care system needs an extreme makeover.


Why would anyone believe Michael Moore?  Different numbers on the uninsured. But when you remove the people who can afford insurance but choose not to buy it, illegals and people who don't have insurance but are eligible for an existing gov. program the number is about 12M. People have to dig a little and not be propagandized by both sides of these issues.

 Look at wait times for treatment in the UK. Cancer drugs that are unavailable in the UK that are commonly used here. Shoot just look at Cancer survival rates.

 You are right, we do need to fix our system but the affordable care act is a disaster that won't work. It's not affordable and we won't be healthier and by their own admission there will still be around 30 million uninsured in this country.

post #144 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by madolive3 View Post
 


Tea Bagger?? You wouldn't call me a tea Bagger to my face,  You are  a typical internet moron.. The  Tea party stands for smaller Government plane and simple.  They put pressure on politicians like any other political movement. . This is typical of the liberals, attack and marginalize those who disagree with or threaten your socialist agenda.

I vote GOP in about 60% of all elections and I would call anyone anything to their face that I thought fit them and have done so throughout my life. The Tea Party ideology of smaller government and fiscal conservatism is needed and welcome, but what those folks did over the past three weeks was way below the belt. It was a disgusting display, and they will likely ruin any chance of the GOP maintaining a majority in the House in 2014. I think Ron Paul is the best fiscal conservative out there - always respectful, intelligent, and has a track record to back up what he says. He's not perfect, but better than most.

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