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The (un)Affordable Health Care Act & Debt Ceiling Controversies - Page 9

post #145 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by madolive3 View Post
 


Ask regular Cuban Citizens about their health care. Think they get MRIs? Food? Clean sheets? Essential drugs? No, Only if family or Charity brings food. Only if family brings sheets. Only if they may be available amid shortages. Do you realy think some Cuban farmer who gets Cancer gets better treatment than the average Cancer patient in the US???? Like in all commie countries you only see what they allow and that's just fine with the liberals in this country because they have been trying to convince Americans how bad our health care is. Fact is anyone can get health care in this county. Not perfect but  certainly better than anything else out there. So you have to pay for health insurance, so what, most uninsured people can afford to buy insurance but choose not to, and those who can't are already eligible for some Gov. program. I always hear how the Europeans are better, Really??/ They can't afford their health care either. If the US didn't take on the burden of defending the euros and propping up their economies for the last 50 years most of Europe would look like Greece and Spain, or worse. Nobody hears about the death rates in Europe from cancer and other disease because wait times for treatment can run 6 months or more....

Oh dear :no:.

post #146 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by madolive3 View Post


Tea Bagger?? You wouldn't call me a tea Bagger to my face,  You are  a typical internet moron.. The  Tea party stands for smaller Government plane and simple.  They put pressure on politicians like any other political movement. . This is typical of the liberals, attack and marginalize those who disagree with or threaten your socialist agenda.

Yes, I would call you a teabagger to your face. Whenever extremists enter the government and believe so much in their ideology that they will not work with others, a government has problems.

My way or the highway does not work well for a democracy.

Personal attacks and name-calling only show your own Moronic tendencies and inability to argue Along with your lack of any intellectual capacity.

Your other posts are filled with fantasy facts and stereotypes, which is typical of someone Imbued with ideology and ignorance of reality.
post #147 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

 

P.S.  You are wise to stay away from this thread.  I actually thought to myself the other day "It's sure been a long time since we've had a politics thread on here, and I'm really glad."  Then I saw this one, and I said "I'll stay away, it never turns out good."  And yet, like a dummy, here I am.:doh: 

 

 

I'm joining you on the procession of the damned, both in living under our current Congress and jumping into this thread.

 

My opinion:  the greatest and most powerful country that the world has ever known cannot allow its citizens to die or go untreated from easily preventable/treatable medical conditions, nor can we allow our citizens who want to work to go bankrupt paying for basic medical care or due to wages lost because they can't get basic treatment.  If that opinion makes me a socialist, so be it.

 

Also my opinion:  ACA is unworkable.  I was in favor of a universal health care law, but the ACA can't work.

 

Here's a free-market economy question from a person who may be labeled a socialist:  how in the hell can any economic system mandate consumption of a product but not set the price?  If demand is mandated by law, then the suppliers can feast on us all.  The problem is that the ACA doesn't guarantee health care, it guarantees insurance.  The insurers still get to decide how much to charge, you still have a layer of negotiation (head bashing) with the insurer before you actually get to seek treatment, and you still suffer with the fear that one wrong step will ruin you financially.

 

If we're going to go down this road (which I am in favor of), then the system needs to mirror what the military uses.  Clinics are government operated, free to authorized patrons, and scaled to provide routine, emergency, and intensive specialty care.  Not every medical condition should be covered:  there should be a cost-benefit analysis of whether spending millions to extend a single life is really in our country's interests.   If rich folks who can afford to spend their boatloads of cash on medical care want treatment above what the government provides, then I'm sure there will be a market for extras.  Hell, we could even have a side-by-side system that offers basic free care and pay-as-you-go premium care at the same location so doctors can still get rich.

post #148 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by k-troop View Post
 

 

 

I'm joining you on the procession of the damned, both in living under our current Congress and jumping into this thread.

 

My opinion:  the greatest and most powerful country that the world has ever known cannot allow its citizens to die or go untreated from easily preventable/treatable medical conditions, nor can we allow our citizens who want to work to go bankrupt paying for basic medical care or due to wages lost because they can't get basic treatment.  If that opinion makes me a socialist, so be it.

 

Also my opinion:  ACA is unworkable.  I was in favor of a universal health care law, but the ACA can't work.

 

Remember, this is a GOP Plan based on Private Insurance - it was a GOP response to the one-payer Clinton plan of 1993.

 

The State GOP version of the ACA is operating in Massachusetts. Costs have increased under the plan but they are working to changing parts of the plan for cost savings. Rare is the plan - a plan so BIG - that it works well right out of the gates. This one has flaws that need fixing. There are lots of smart people in the HealthCare industry who have suggestions to fix it. I suggest both parties listen and fix.

post #149 of 298
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond View Post
• Whenever extremists enter the government and believe so much in their ideology that they will not work with others, a government has problems.

• My way or the highway does not work well for a democracy.

• Personal attacks and name-calling only show your own Moronic tendencies and inability to argue Along with your lack of any intellectual capacity.

 

Personally, I believe this argument fits both on the left and the right. Conservative and liberal. Republican and Democrat.

 

I go back to my original point that we need term limits and a balanced budget amendment. Then, sanity might, just might, find its way to Washington.

post #150 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfreuter415 View Post
 

 

Personally, I believe this argument fits both on the left and the right. Conservative and liberal. Republican and Democrat.

 

I go back to my original point that we need term limits and a balanced budget amendment. Then, sanity might, just might, find its way to Washington.

Agreed - typically it is the ultra's of either bent.

 

While their intentions may begin as honorable, their actions typically do considerably more damage than any benefit.

 

As is the case with these tea party people, who have already snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. And now, they are just a drag on the economy, the deficit, and the American people. We need good, ole, moderate Pubs, who will at least work with the other side, and understand that change comes in small increments.

post #151 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by madolive3 View Post
 


Tea Bagger?? You wouldn't call me a tea Bagger to my face,  You are  a typical internet moron.. The  Tea party stands for smaller Government plane and simple.  They put pressure on politicians like any other political movement. . This is typical of the liberals, attack and marginalize those who disagree with or threaten your socialist agenda.

Do you know what irony is?  In the very same sentence, you complain about being called names (which I would probably have agreed with you on, "tea bagging" is not exactly a nice phrase) yet in the same post you do the exact same thing!  If you're going to call him a socialist, then you get to remain a tea-bagger.  If you're giving below the fray, then be prepared to be taking below the fray.

 

Calling a liberal a socialist is about as accurate as calling a conservative an anarchist.  Personally, I prefer that other, "horribly offensive," name that somehow turned into a negative over the last few years ... "progressive." ;)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
 

 

Yes about 50 million, closer to 45 million are uninsured, so what?

This is it, right?  It is the philosophical difference separating us, and one that will never be solved because it's, well, a difference in philosophy. :)

post #152 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond View Post
 

Agreed - typically it is the ultra's of either bent.

 

While their intentions may begin as honorable, their actions typically do considerably more damage than any benefit.

 

As is the case with these tea party people, who have already snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. And now, they are just a drag on the economy, the deficit, and the American people. We need good, ole, moderate Pubs, who will at least work with the other side, and understand that change comes in small increments.

 

 

True, but I would like to see the good old Moderate Dems back as well ;) 

 

Both sides are idiots.Enough pride has been hurt that I don't think anything is going to get done this year. It will not change in the future until a major majority of the seats in both the senate and the house are made competitive again. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

This is it, right?  It is the philosophical difference separating us, and one that will never be solved because it's, well, a difference in philosophy. :)

 

 

Not really, like I said, I wasn't making that comment as one were I don't care about 45 million uninsured. I was making that comment in the lines of, don't come in here spouting stats at us from an asshat like Mike Moore. Just throwing around stats, and assuming it means something is just stupid. Of course there are uninsured people, some of them with pre-existing conditions, some of them are homeless, some of them can't afford it, some of them just don't want it. Its a diverse group. 

 

Do I care about the 45 million uninsured, kinda. I am not a person who gets to overly emotional about other people's problems. Is there probably a fix for the solution, yea. I rather work on a solution that does not include a health program run by the government. 

 

The pre-existing conditions mandate isn't bad. I do have an issue with the mandate to buy health insurance. I get were they were going with it. I think if you make insurance enticing enough, you don't need to mandate it. If you make it cost effective, I think you could get a good 90-95% of those uninsured to go on it with out the mandate. 

 

Also, once we allow them to mandate something like that, what will stop them from saying, "Ok you can't buy anything but American Cars?" I mean, we given them to power to mandate us to buy something. Its a scary thing when we start letting the government have that sort of broad power. If we didn't like lobbying now, what stops big corporations from making it look like that the government should mandate we buy a specific product.


Edited by saevel25 - 10/20/13 at 1:26pm
post #153 of 298
For what it's worth, I don't even know what teabagging means

I just shorten the name to express my displeasure – T people, tea baggers, that is all.
post #154 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond View Post

For what it's worth, I don't even know what teabagging means

I just shorten the name to express my displeasure – T people, tea baggers, that is all.

 

Then look it up, because you've now been told it's a pretty nasty term.

post #155 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

Then look it up, because you've now been told it's a pretty nasty term.

I learn so many things on this site.  Some I think I'd be okay not knowing....

post #156 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

Then look it up, because you've now been told it's a pretty nasty term.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

I learn so many things on this site.  Some I think I'd be okay not knowing....

For the record, I always knew of it as a little less vulgar than that.  It was something football players would do after finishing a tackle.  Many more barriers in between, making it markedly less disgusting, but no less rude.  (I think you can picture it ... after a sack - no pun intended - instead of standing straight up to start a celebration, they could sort of walk or crawl their way up the QB's body)

 

Anyways ... not a happy term.  Know which party I really hate though?  Those danged Cleveland Steamers. ;)

post #157 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

Then look it up, because you've now been told it's a pretty nasty term.

I will.

Guess I heard Bill Maher say it, and I should have known to check it out. At the same time, no one gasped in horror about it in the audience.
post #158 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond View Post


I will.

Guess I heard Bill Maher say it, and I should have known to check it out. At the same time, no one gasped in horror about it in the audience.

 

f you watch Maher you're more of an Obama fan boy than you let on.

post #159 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond View Post


I will.

Guess I heard Bill Maher say it, and I should have known to check it out. At the same time, no one gasped in horror about it in the audience.

 

God, how can you watch that man, he's terrible. There is a reason why his audience didn't gasp in horror, he's one of most leftist extreme liberals out there. Expect his audience to gasp at a blatant terrible name towards the tea party, that would the day hell freezes over.  

post #160 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post

f you watch Maher you're more of an Obama fan boy than you let on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post

God, how can you watch that man, he's terrible. There is a reason why his audience didn't gasp in horror, he's one of most leftist extreme liberals out there. Expect his audience to gasp at a blatant terrible name towards the tea party, that would the day hell freezes over.  
You guys seem to be forgetting something. Bill Maher is a professional comedian. Whether or not he's a left wing nut job is largely irrelevant ... He can be really funny.
post #161 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post

f you watch Maher you're more of an Obama fan boy than you let on.
Please do not bring your own prejudices into a man's intellectual ability to watch television shows and the ability to separate the wheat from the chaff.
post #162 of 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post

God, how can you watch that man, he's terrible. There is a reason why his audience didn't gasp in horror, he's one of most leftist extreme liberals out there. Expect his audience to gasp at a blatant terrible name towards the tea party, that would the day hell freezes over.  

Remember, I was an Eagle Scout, so there is a bit of naïveté in me. I don't really expect anybody to label a person with such a derogatory act.

So I guess I would not call anybody a teabagger to their face.

But I would say that teabagging is what the tea party has been doing to the country for the last three years
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