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Is complaining about course conditions "conduct unbecoming a professional"? - Page 2

Poll Results: Is complaining about course conditions "conduct unbecoming a professional"?

 
  • 44% (8)
    Yes
  • 55% (10)
    No
18 Total Votes  
post #19 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by krupa View Post
 

The "this is America" argument is too simplistic.  The practical aspects of getting through life means that we can't always say what we want, even if it's a legitimate opinion.  No one walks up to their boss and says, "ho-ly, your daughter is UGLY".  Or, while meeting with a potential customer says, "I hope you buy our product even though I wouldn't... it's total crap."

 

These guys are professionals representing the PGA.  They can hate the conditions but they should be complaining privately to the people that could actually do something about it.  Complaining about it on Twitter is unprofessional, in my opinion.


Agree.  When everyone has to play in the same conditions, they have no reason to complain.  It seems like its always the same people whining too: usually Phil and Poulter.

post #20 of 41
Golfers at every level blame bad shots on course conditions. Why shoul the pros be any different?
post #21 of 41

The players can't win, can they?

 

They're stuck between giving their honest opinion on something, whether it be on course conditions, a ruling etc, and being called an ungrateful ******* by fans and the media.

 

Or they can give the same 'correct' answers all the time, doing their best to never step on anyone's toes and to not give anybody a reason to hate them. After which they'll be labelled as boring and predictable with no real personality.

 

I think it would be best for the game and us as fans to let these guys have the freedom to give their honest opinions on golf-related issues as, for the most part, they're extremely knowledgable and they all have the ability and experience in golf to offer something more grounded in truth than any of us. 

post #22 of 41

I would bet 100% of them complain about something at on time or another. I am curious why they held a qualifier there. my guess would be that there was no other place available or maybe that was the only area screwed up.

post #23 of 41
Thread Starter 

I'm noticing that a lot of the replies are confusing the idea of "acting in an unprofessional manner" with "having and voicing an opinion."  Those are two different things.  You can voice your opinion, even if it's a criticism, and still be professional about it.   For example:

 

Professional:

The course conditions weren't ideal today; I don't think they should aerate greens before a tournament.

 

Unprofessional:

What kind of a brain dead moron aerates greens before a tournament!?

 

I realize that no one actually said the latter (publicly, anyway); I was just using it as a clear-cut difference between the two.

 

Incidentally, the "professional" version fits in a single Twitter message...

post #24 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaijinGolfer View Post
 


Agree.  When everyone has to play in the same conditions, they have no reason to complain.  It seems like its always the same people whining too: usually Phil and Poulter.

Don't think they were playing in the qualifying round for Las Vegas.

post #25 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by krupa View Post
 

I'm noticing that a lot of the replies are confusing the idea of "acting in an unprofessional manner" with "having and voicing an opinion."  Those are two different things.  You can voice your opinion, even if it's a criticism, and still be professional about it.   For example:

 

Professional:

The course conditions weren't ideal today; I don't think they should aerate greens before a tournament.

 

Unprofessional:

What kind of a brain dead moron aerates greens before a tournament!?

 

I realize that no one actually said the latter (publicly, anyway); I was just using it as a clear-cut difference between the two.

 

Incidentally, the "professional" version fits in a single Twitter message...


Exactly what part of the tweets were non-professional? All I saw was a caption of the atrocious green that stated: "PGA Tour? Really?" or something similar.  Is that unprofessional in your opinion?

 

And I wonder how many of the posters in this thread who criticize tour players (even those who had no involvement with this issue) ever have any criticisms about their own workplace. You know, things that hinder their making a living.

post #26 of 41
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmonious View Post
 


Exactly what part of the tweets were non-professional? All I saw was a caption of the atrocious green that stated: "PGA Tour? Really?" or something similar.  Is that unprofessional in your opinion?

 

And I wonder how many of the posters in this thread who criticize tour players (even those who had no involvement with this issue) ever have any criticisms about their own workplace. You know, things that hinder their making a living.

Obviously this is a very subjective area and I'm not really trying to convince the world to share my opinion.  However, yes, I do think the tweet was unprofessional.  My example shows that you can express yourself clearly and professionally within the 140 character limit.

 

I'm sure we all have criticisms of our workplaces but we don't voice them publicly; it's unprofessional.

post #27 of 41
Complaining is pretty much the opposite of being professional by definition.
post #28 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by krupa View Post
 

Obviously this is a very subjective area and I'm not really trying to convince the world to share my opinion.  However, yes, I do think the tweet was unprofessional.  My example shows that you can express yourself clearly and professionally within the 140 character limit.

 

I'm sure we all have criticisms of our workplaces but we don't voice them publicly; it's unprofessional.

I don't think that tweet was unprofessional at all, it basically puts across the idea that it's unbelievable that green would be on a course played by the PGA Tour. I think having them play on a course that looked like that could be considered unprofessional though. 

post #29 of 41

I think everyone has a right to complain, and we should be wary of any rules or penalties that would restrict that right.

 

However, the OP was talking about Professional Conduct. That means something important to me.

 

A true professional would go to course or tour management and privately discuss his issues with his place of work. He would give his reasons for his complaints and listen to the feedback presented to him. A true professional would not leave his work site and proclaim to the world in general, who has no power to change or affect anything to do with his workplace, how bad his workplace was. That just seems petty to me.

 

A normal, every day paying customer would be within his rights to go on Yelp or twitter or wherever to say the course wasn't worth the price of admission, but a professional playing under the umbrella of the PGA tour and aspiring to make money by playing under that umbrella should be a little more discrete.

post #30 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop View Post
 

I don't think that tweet was unprofessional at all, it basically puts across the idea that it's unbelievable that green would be on a course played by the PGA Tour. I think having them play on a course that looked like that could be considered unprofessional though.

Here's where we differ. I agree that the course did not seem up to PGA tour standards, whatever they are, but the complaint about the unprofessional conditions should have been directly addressed with the course management and the tour. What good does it do to go public, other than to shame the course and the tour? If the course and the tour are not ashamed when told privately, then what you take away is that the tour believes that their professionals should be able to play on courses like these, and live with it or find another source of income. If the course and tour people do not react until publicly shamed, then that also tells you something about your chosen profession, and you may not be happy in your work in the future.

post #31 of 41

The thing that gets me is did the players know the circumstances behind the poor green? I don't , but who knows maybe that course was the only one willing to host the qualifier and if they didn't have it there they would not be able to have it. so with out knowing any back round I can't say if it was unprofessional. that's why I voted no.

post #32 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfect Slicer View Post
 

Here's where we differ. I agree that the course did not seem up to PGA tour standards, whatever they are, but the complaint about the unprofessional conditions should have been directly addressed with the course management and the tour. What good does it do to go public, other than to shame the course and the tour? If the course and the tour are not ashamed when told privately, then what you take away is that the tour believes that their professionals should be able to play on courses like these, and live with it or find another source of income. If the course and tour people do not react until publicly shamed, then that also tells you something about your chosen profession, and you may not be happy in your work in the future.

Interesting, if it wasn't anything to be ashamed about then they wouldn't be "shamed" by it going public. If they felt there was nothing wrong with the course conditions then it shouldn't matter whether they were made public or not.

post #33 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop View Post
 

Interesting, if it wasn't anything to be ashamed about then they wouldn't be "shamed" by it going public. If they felt there was nothing wrong with the course conditions then it shouldn't matter whether they were made public or not.

 

What we don't know is whether they didn't think there was anything wrong with the course conditions- which doesn't seem likely unless theynever walked the course-, or if they weren't concerned about the course conditions. Two different things. In either case, however, it may not matter to the course or PGA people that the comments were made public, but the fact that they were made public was not wholey professional. Whining is not professional. No matter how you want to describe the twitter comments, they are complaining about things that are out of their control, to people who have no control over the situation, which is whining.

 

To the other point, if your livelihood is controlled by people who will not react to improve a known bad situation until they are publicly 'shamed', then you may not be working around the right kind of people, and may not have a happy life.

 

All that said, I'm really just showing my age. I am not a social media person. For the life of me, I do not understand the value or appeal to throw out any commentary about my life or feelings to an unknown mass of humanity.

 

<He said as he hit SUBMIT in a public forum> :doh:

post #34 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfect Slicer View Post
 

 

All that said, I'm really just showing my age. I am not a social media person. For the life of me, I do not understand the value or appeal to throw out any commentary about my life or feelings to an unknown mass of humanity.

 

<He said as he hit SUBMIT in a public forum> :doh:

lol

post #35 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perfect Slicer View Post
 

 

What we don't know is whether they didn't think there was anything wrong with the course conditions- which doesn't seem likely unless theynever walked the course-, or if they weren't concerned about the course conditions. Two different things. In either case, however, it may not matter to the course or PGA people that the comments were made public, but the fact that they were made public was not wholey professional. Whining is not professional. No matter how you want to describe the twitter comments, they are complaining about things that are out of their control, to people who have no control over the situation, which is whining.

 

To the other point, if your livelihood is controlled by people who will not react to improve a known bad situation until they are publicly 'shamed', then you may not be working around the right kind of people, and may not have a happy life.

 

All that said, I'm really just showing my age. I am not a social media person. For the life of me, I do not understand the value or appeal to throw out any commentary about my life or feelings to an unknown mass of humanity.

 

<He said as he hit SUBMIT in a public forum> :doh:

 

You have made excellent points for your position. But, in the case of the PGA Tour, the player really doesn't have any viable options with which to advance his career. This is the pinnacle of his profession and he probably has expectations based on past experience. If the working conditions were like this on a consistent basis he probably would not have said anything. But I am fairly certain that players on that level hardly ever play in competition under such conditions, if ever. Aerated greens? "Really?" :-O

post #36 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by phan52 View Post
 

 

You have made excellent points for your position. But, in the case of the PGA Tour, the player really doesn't have any viable options with which to advance his career. This is the pinnacle of his profession and he probably has expectations based on past experience. If the working conditions were like this on a consistent basis he probably would not have said anything. But I am fairly certain that players on that level hardly ever play in competition under such conditions, if ever. Aerated greens? "Really?" :-O

Agreed.  At some point they cross a line from tough or unfortunate playing conditions to "come on, are you kidding me?"  I think aerated (and seemingly partially dead) greens is across that line.

 

On the other hand, I should recognize that we could be making a mountain out of a molehill here.  We really don't know.  This could be only one green, not all of them, and it could only a portion of one green too - notice how in the picture the cup is not visible.  So, devils advocate ... lets say the rest of that green looks like the bottom left corner of the picture (not bad), and all of the rest of the greens are in good condition as well.  Then, maybe, I'd say, they are just whining for the sake of whining.

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