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Played a 2nd ball but did NOT declare it a provisional...

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 

So I was playing in a comp this morning - on a short par 3 proceeded to hit a horror short right into bushes. I played a 2nd ball and specifically did NOT call it a provisional - rending my first ball lost.

 

As I was walking up to the green - I had a quick look in the bush for my first lost ball so I could just stick it back in the bag if I found it. But my playing partner stated "If you find it, you have to play it" - I replied that that isn't the case because I did not call my 2nd ball a "provisional". He retorted that it didn't matter.  I was correct.... right? 

post #2 of 25

Yes, you were correct.

post #3 of 25
Thread Starter 

Thanks John ... I thought I was. It really pissed me off though because he was very insistent. What made it worse was that he was off 2 - so he should have known better. 

post #4 of 25

You are welcome.  Here is the applicable rule if it comes up again.  You always have the option to replay your stroke, adding 1 PS, no restrictions.

 

27-1. Stroke and Distance; Ball Out of Bounds; Ball Not Found Within Five Minutes

 

a. Proceeding Under Stroke and Distance

 

At any time, a player may, under penalty of one stroke, play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5), i.e., proceed under penalty of stroke and distance.

 

Except as otherwise provided in the Rules, if a player makes a stroke at a ball from the spot at which the original ball was last played, he is deemed to have proceeded under penalty of stroke and distance.

 

 

Rule 20-5 tells you how to accomplish this depending on where your ball lies.

 

 

 

20-5. Making Next Stroke from Where Previous Stroke Made

 

When a player elects or is required to make his next stroke from where a previous stroke was made, he must proceed as follows:

 

(a) On the Teeing Ground: The ball to be played must be played from within the teeing ground. It may be played from anywhere within the teeing ground and may be teed.

 

(b) Through the Green: The ball to be played must be dropped and when dropped must first strike a part of the coursethrough the green.

 

(c) In a Hazard: The ball to be played must be dropped and when dropped must first strike a part of the course in the hazard.

 

(d) On the Putting Green: The ball to be played must be placed on the putting green.

post #5 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish-Ace View Post
 

So I was playing in a comp this morning - on a short par 3 proceeded to hit a horror short right into bushes. I played a 2nd ball and specifically did NOT call it a provisional - rending my first ball lost.

 

As I was walking up to the green - I had a quick look in the bush for my first lost ball so I could just stick it back in the bag if I found it. But my playing partner stated "If you find it, you have to play it" - I replied that that isn't the case because I did not call my 2nd ball a "provisional". He retorted that it didn't matter.  I was correct.... right? 

 

The specific rule is 27-2a

 

27-2. Provisional Ball

a. Procedure

If a ball may be lost outside a water hazard or may be out of bounds, to save time the player may play another ball provisionally in accordance with Rule 27-1. The player must inform his opponent in match play or his marker or a fellow-competitor in stroke play that he intends to play a provisional ball, and he must play it before he or his partner goes forward to search for the original ball.

If he fails to do so and plays another ball, that ball is not a provisional ball and becomes the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1); the original ball is lost.

post #6 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish-Ace View Post
 

So I was playing in a comp this morning - on a short par 3 proceeded to hit a horror short right into bushes. I played a 2nd ball and specifically did NOT call it a provisional - rending my first ball lost.

 

As I was walking up to the green - I had a quick look in the bush for my first lost ball so I could just stick it back in the bag if I found it. But my playing partner stated "If you find it, you have to play it" - I replied that that isn't the case because I did not call my 2nd ball a "provisional". He retorted that it didn't matter.  I was correct.... right? 

 

I, too, stuck one short but deep into the spinach off the tee on Wednesday. I pulled a second ball from my pocket and looked my fellow-competitor in the eye and declared, "This not a provisional." He looked stunned ....

post #7 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rulesman View Post
 

 

The specific rule is 27-2a

 

27-2. Provisional Ball

a. Procedure

If a ball may be lost outside a water hazard or may be out of bounds, to save time the player may play another ball provisionally in accordance with Rule 27-1. The player must inform his opponent in match play or his marker or a fellow-competitor in stroke play that he intends to play a provisional ball, and he must play it before he or his partner goes forward to search for the original ball.

If he fails to do so and plays another ball, that ball is not a provisional ball and becomes the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1); the original ball is lost.

 

Hmmm, I guess it depends on what you're trying to explain, what the OP did under the rules, (27-1a), or what the other competitor thought he did, (27-2a).  Hopefully it's clear that 27-1 is always available, regardless if Rule 27-2 exists or not.  27-2a is a rule designed to speed up play, nothing more.

post #8 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dormie1360 View Post
 

 

Hmmm, I guess it depends on what you're trying to explain, what the OP did under the rules, (27-1a), or what the other competitor thought he did, (27-2a).  Hopefully it's clear that 27-1 is always available, regardless if Rule 27-2 exists or not.  27-2a is a rule designed to speed up play, nothing more.

The original question was

 

"If you find it, you have to play it" - I replied that that isn't the case because I did not call my 2nd ball a "provisional". He retorted that it didn't matter.  I was correct.... right? "

 

'If he fails to do so and plays another ball, that ball is not a provisional ball and becomes the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1); the original ball is lost.'

 

Would confirms clearly that the poster is right and the FC was wrong. It would seem the FC was confused about the provisional ball situation rather than the player's right to take S&D at any time.

 

Although S&D is pretty fundamental, most players automatically think about provisionals when another ball is played from the tee after a wayward shot.

post #9 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville View Post
 

 

I, too, stuck one short but deep into the spinach off the tee on Wednesday. I pulled a second ball from my pocket and looked my fellow-competitor in the eye and declared, "This not a provisional." He looked stunned ....

 Yeah, I got the same look. The reasons I did not call it a provisional were...

 

1) I would not have been able to get 2 club lengths or drop back in a line with the flag and point where ball lay. So I would have had to walk back to the tee to take unplayable relief had I found it.

 

2) I was just pi$$ed with that particular hole after hitting bad tee shots to it 3 weeks in a row. Needed to hit the green to get it out of my system :-D

post #10 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rulesman View Post
 

The original question was

 

"If you find it, you have to play it" - I replied that that isn't the case because I did not call my 2nd ball a "provisional". He retorted that it didn't matter.  I was correct.... right? "

 

'If he fails to do so and plays another ball, that ball is not a provisional ball and becomes the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1); the original ball is lost.'

 

Would confirms clearly that the poster is right and the FC was wrong. It would seem the FC was confused about the provisional ball situation rather than the player's right to take S&D at any time.

 

Although S&D is pretty fundamental, most players automatically think about provisionals when another ball is played from the tee after a wayward shot.

 

I see what your saying, I agree.  When someone plays there stroke over, there is a common assumption that the second ball is a provisional.

post #11 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dormie1360 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rulesman View Post
 

The original question was

 

"If you find it, you have to play it" - I replied that that isn't the case because I did not call my 2nd ball a "provisional". He retorted that it didn't matter.  I was correct.... right? "

 

'If he fails to do so and plays another ball, that ball is not a provisional ball and becomes the ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance (Rule 27-1); the original ball is lost.'

 

Would confirms clearly that the poster is right and the FC was wrong. It would seem the FC was confused about the provisional ball situation rather than the player's right to take S&D at any time.

 

Although S&D is pretty fundamental, most players automatically think about provisionals when another ball is played from the tee after a wayward shot.

 

I see what your saying, I agree.  When someone plays there stroke over, there is a common assumption that the second ball is a provisional.

 

When exactly the opposite should be true - that when a player plays a second ball, the assumption should be that he is playing under stroke and distance unless he makes a point of declaring it a provisional ball.

post #12 of 25
Very simple - a provisional is only a provisional if it is called a provisional!!

Some with whom I play say "I'll hit another" prompting me to ask "will that be a provisional?" I think they feel I am being obsessive but they are coming around.
post #13 of 25

Our group is in the habit of saying something like, "This is my provisional -- a Z-Star 4. The first one was a 2." That way, everyone knows you declared a provisional and which ball is the first and which is the second once you find them both. In our group, we became more worried about one guy who hit the same ball as a provisional as his first and then all hell would break loose when the balls were near each other than we were about declaring a provisional. "Darn it Jim. They are both Pro V 3's." I know the rules would say that if he can't identify… but our current practice avoids the entire ugly scene. 

post #14 of 25

rustyredcab - do yourself, and your mates a favour and buy a few small coloured indelible felt tip markers (under a dollar each over here)  and put something distinctive on you ball;  an X. a circle, or whatever.      Hell, there can then be no argument at all.

post #15 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnno View Post
 

rustyredcab - do yourself, and your mates a favour and buy a few small coloured indelible felt tip markers (under a dollar each over here)  and put something distinctive on you ball;  an X. a circle, or whatever.      Hell, there can then be no argument at all.

 

We all mark our balls. But, putting a unique "provisional" mark seems more complicated than simply changing the ball number (also distinctively marked for each player). I always pocket a ball of a different number than the one I'm playing.

post #16 of 25

No probs mate.

 

I have actually taken to playing a coloured ball for a provisional, just to make it all easier and quicker for us all.

 

Cheers

post #17 of 25
Since I do not play in competitions with the one ball rule in effect I use a ball of a different brand for provisionals.
post #18 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtleback View Post

Since I do not play in competitions with the one ball rule in effect I use a ball of a different brand for provisionals.

 

That sure helps you to distinguish your original ball from your provisional one, but what if you find two balls of the same brand and same number? It certainly is way much easier to make a distinctive mark on one's ball, just to make sure. Besides the Rules enourage all players to do that...

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