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My Swing (billchao) - Page 4

post #55 of 159
Thread Starter 

Went to the range yesterday. Didn't feel too good about the session because I was making inconsistent contact and hitting the ball like crap, but I looked at the video and I think the swing is actually looking pretty good.

 

 

 

Two things I feel need to be addressed, which I believe are related:

1. I've been hitting the ball really high lately.

2. I've lost distance on all my clubs.

 

I think I'm getting too much backspin and the ball is ballooning. Not sure if it's swing related or I need to start looking at different shafts.

 

Still hitting a push fade. I can manage a pull fade if I weaken my grip; it's kind of how I've been trying to keep it under control when I'm playing, but there is still way too much movement to the right.

 

Wondering if I need to push my hands more forward at address? Maybe the handle being back is causing some of my height issues.

post #56 of 159

Hi Bill - I spoke with Erik earlier today and told him I'd have a look at your swing. Really nice job overall and your structure is certainly solid. The biggest priority for you is Key 3 (Inline Impact) and working on this will help Key 4 (Sweetspot Path) as well. It will take care of a the issue with the fades and the added loft/higher shots pretty quickly.  Notes are on the images which I exported from my Analyzr Pro software.

 

Dave

 

 

 

post #57 of 159

The above is just AWESOME!!

 

Can't wait to see the picture change.. Good Luck Bill!!

post #58 of 159
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by david_wedzik View Post
 

Hi Bill - I spoke with Erik earlier today and told him I'd have a look at your swing. Really nice job overall and your structure is certainly solid. The biggest priority for you is Key 3 (Inline Impact) and working on this will help Key 4 (Sweetspot Path) as well. It will take care of a the issue with the fades and the added loft/higher shots pretty quickly.  Notes are on the images which I exported from my Analyzr Pro software.

 

Dave

 

 

Hi Dave! Thanks for looking at my swing. I will work on this and post my progress. Thanks for the second image so I have a clear picture of what I need it to look like.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by david_wedzik View Post
 

 

I always thought the left wrist cupping was an issue, but I guess I never really knew how to address it. I tried to externally rotate my right arm more going back, but it gave me timing inconsistencies, which I didn't like.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by david_wedzik View Post
 

 

I used to use a forward press to start my swing years ago when my flight was a straight draw. It probably accomplished exactly this: setting the wrists "flatter" at the start. I moved away from the press when I started making changes to my swing and forgot all about it. I won't go back to that; I'm going to make this change you mentioned and go from there. Thanks, again.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu3baid View Post
 

The above is just AWESOME!!

 

Can't wait to see the picture change.. Good Luck Bill!!

Thanks, Eyad!

post #59 of 159
Thread Starter 
Short day at work today, so I managed an impromtu range session, no videos.

I've been working on the things @david_wedzik showed me. I know it's only been two days, but here are the preliminary observations:

1. Setup change is simple. I just have to be mindful of it, and with enough practice, it will become the norm.

2. In order to achieve the flatter left wrist at A4, I started applying more pressure to the club with the pinky and ring fingers of my left hand. Must be the way the tendons are linked, but if I squeeze with my index or middle fingers, my wrist cups. It stays flat when I squeeze with the last two fingers.

3. The downswing piece seems to take care of itself when I do 1 & 2. I say "seems," because I don't have it on film. When I make partial and slow motion swings, the left hand is arched.

I hit mostly high draws. Granted, I only hit about 15-20 full swings, but it's promising. Even on my bad swings where I swung too much to the left, the miss was a more playable fade.

Found the center of the clubface better, too. It's been a while since I felt really solid contact, so that was great.

Still hit the ball pretty high, but I can't tell (because I don't know) if it is too high or not. It's higher than I'm used to hitting, but maybe I used to hit it too low. I know the pros aim for 30 yards of height, but I don't have a frame of reference for that.

If I am going to hit the sweetspot better, I may just end up swapping out the GI irons for my old Mizunos. If the club has anything to do with the high launch, that should solve that; I'll have to comparison test it sometime.

That's it. I have to keep on practicing and make the changes concrete. Have to see if I can take it to the course, too.
post #60 of 159
Thread Starter 

I'm going to start posting my rounds here because I think they'll be easier to keep track of:

 

I played a new course today: Clearbrook Golf Course. It's a nine hole course with a second set of tees when you play 18. According to their scorecard, 67.6/123, 5,594 yards. However, the yardage on the scorecard was wildly inaccurate all day and I can't find the rating on the USGA website, so I'm not really sure what to make of it.

 

Anyway, shot 96, ESC 95. One birdie, two pars, two fairways hit and three GIR. I also hit a couple of long irons on the greens, but they're not properly reflected in the way I keep stats. Terrible putting day at 40 putts and lost four balls.

 

Fought a two way miss today, but that was expected as I'm in a transition period with my swing. Hit some shots pretty straight, not much curve at all. Also hit some draws and some fades. I don't think my feel for the flat left wrist at A4 works as well as I'd like because sometimes I would miss right back to the old push fade. I'll have to get it on video, soon, but I'm sure I just need more time to cement the change.

 

I did make an adjustment to the feel during the round where I focused more on the right wrist bend, as Dave mentioned. I seemed to make better contact afterwards. Driver still sucks; it cost me all my penalty strokes.


Four rounds so far this season, three during the official season. All differentials in the 20's. Going to have to start scoring better soon or the handicap is going to go up.

 

Need more time and practice to get the changes to stick. Swings on the range are good because I'm focused on mechanics. Swings on the course are inconsistent because I'm focused on golf. Once I get the mechanics down I should get to playing some good golf, hopefully soon.

post #61 of 159

Stick with it, Bill. This new stuff you're working on with the lead wrist is huge change and will take a bit of time. 

 

And good job on that birdie!

post #62 of 159
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFan1983 View Post

Stick with it, Bill. This new stuff you're working on with the lead wrist is huge change and will take a bit of time. 

And good job on that birdie!
Thanks! And I will stick with it, you can count on that. I've seen glimpses of how my ballstriking could be, and I'm hooked.
post #63 of 159
Thread Starter 

I've been debating whether I should update this or not, because I haven't successfully changed anything since my last video, but I felt this was important enough to post, so here goes:

 

I may or may not have had a light bulb moment (we all know how the last one went :doh:). Anyways, I record my swing all the time, but since most of them are the same exact swing, I don't bother to post them. So here is the swing from yesterday:

 

You'll notice that not much has changed. I've been trying, with little success, to make the left wrist arching feel translate to a real swing. I can do it statically, but when I try it dynamically, it just won't work. It has something to do with how I load the club or how the weight affects me, I'm assuming.

 

So I happen to be watching Golf Channel last night, and they had Jimmy Walker's swing on Swing Vision. I noticed that he swings his arms up higher than they need to go at the top of his backswing, which is similar to what I do, so I watched it again. And again, and again, and again. You get the picture. Here is his swing, btw (video credit goes to @mvmac for having the only useful Jimmy Walker swing on YouTube):

What really struck me was his right arm action. Even though his hands get a bit high, he brings everything right back down into pitch elbow. What I saw was Jimmy's right elbow at A4 seemed a bit too separated from his chest, then he brings it right down at the beginning of his downswing. When the elbow can no longer move (because the arm hits the chest), it starts to unfold. When the elbow is just about completely unfolded, the wrist uncocks. This all occurs while everything is turning.

 

This struck me as important, because I get into a similar position at the top:

I'm a bit flatter than he is, but it looks like that's only because his arms keep rising past mine.*

 

*Actually, the left wrist is flatter, so I DID improve :-)

 

Problem is, I completely fail to execute the proper move going down. Instead of bringing the elbow down, mine just hangs out where it was at A4 (in relation to my body) and I start turning.

See how his elbow is down and in front of his body, whereas mine is to the side of my body. This is where I begin to get OTT; everything starts to rotate outwards and the club will get too steep. The only way I can manage to get good contact on the ball is to compensate by dropping my right shoulder and raising the left shoulder up...

 

Which is exactly what I do :-X. From here, all my angles get thrown out.

 

I've come to believe the fix is more right forearm rotation by A4. This I believe will achieve two things:

1. More right hand extension (wrist hinge), thus a flatter left wrist at the top (and hopefully, during the downswing)

2. Gets the left hand "on top" of the right, bringing the right elbow down (more pitch)

 

If we go back to A4:

See how the butt of Jimmy's club points at the camera, but mine is off towards the left. I believe this is due to lack of forearm rotation.

 

So that is what I will be working on now: more rotation going back, less rotation going down. I'm going to work on feeling the right elbow come down and unfold. Unless somebody tells me not to. Then I'd really be embarrassed :-$

 

All this just to achieve one flat wrist...

post #64 of 159
@billchao, I post my swing even if I don't see much difference. More educated eyes may still pick stuff out.
post #65 of 159
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14ledo81 View Post

@billchao, I post my swing even if I don't see much difference. More educated eyes may still pick stuff out.
That's a fair point. It's just that I film far more often than I know I can realistically make changes. Most of my videos are just for me to assess if using a different feel changes the picture or not. It's hard to tell without the video, as "feel isn't real" as you know.

Plus, I've got this weird notion that I'd be bothering people if I post too many swings. I'm sure they'll just ignore the thread if they don't care, but it's just how I feel.
post #66 of 159
I like to see others swings. Even if I don't reply all the time. Keep em coming.
post #67 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by billchao View Post
 

What really struck me was his right arm action. Even though his hands get a bit high, he brings everything right back down into pitch elbow. What I saw was Jimmy's right elbow at A4 seemed a bit too separated from his chest, then he brings it right down at the beginning of his downswing. 

 

Yea, just from my own experience, when my right arm gets "bunchy," meaning everything is too connected on the backswing, it makes it harder for the arms (particularly the right arm and elbow) to move downward on the way down. So some separation is good for that reason. But that's just my own swing and something I have to watch. I'm not telling you to do this, I'm just explaining some of the reasoning behind it. 

 

In your case, it's always best to follow the plan and ask questions to your pro (@mvmac, @iacas, whoever you're working with) when confused rather than going off on your own too much. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by billchao View Post

Plus, I've got this weird notion that I'd be bothering people if I post too many swings. I'm sure they'll just ignore the thread if they don't care, but it's just how I feel.

 

Nah, it's fine. I enjoy following along too. 

 


 

The only general advice I have right now -- and this is something I forget sometimes too -- is to slow down. Shorten things up too. It's easier to change the picture when you're not swinging anywhere close to full speed. I'm not saying that's what you're doing because I don't know, but it's always good to remind each other of this, just in case you forgot. 

post #68 of 159
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14ledo81 View Post

I like to see others swings. Even if I don't reply all the time. Keep em coming.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFan1983 View Post
 

 

Nah, it's fine. I enjoy following along too.

Ok, you've convinced me! Actually, I do the same thing, too, so I'll get more going on in here.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFan1983 View Post
 

 

Yea, just from my own experience, when my right arm gets "bunchy," meaning everything is too connected on the backswing, it makes it harder for the arms (particularly the right arm and elbow) to move downward on the way down. So some separation is good for that reason. But that's just my own swing and something I have to watch. I'm not telling you to do this, I'm just explaining some of the reasoning behind it.

 

In your case, it's always best to follow the plan and ask questions to your pro (@mvmac, @iacas, whoever you're working with) when confused rather than going off on your own too much.

I'm pretty sure I do the same thing in my swing. I'll have to steal your feels ;-) (kidding).

 

I don't really think of myself as working with a particular pro. In the past, @mvmac has done a lot with my full swing and @iacas has worked with my pitching. Most recently I'm trying to make the changes that @david_wedzik pointed out (which is where I'm kind of stuck). I tend not to ask them questions because I know they are busy and I feel like I'd be imposing. Instead, I just post stuff, and if they have something to chime in, I trust that they will.

 

You're have a point though, maybe I should stop trying to figure stuff out for myself and going off on wild tangents.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFan1983 View Post
 

 

The only general advice I have right now -- and this is something I forget sometimes too -- is to slow down. Shorten things up too. It's easier to change the picture when you're not swinging anywhere close to full speed. I'm not saying that's what you're doing because I don't know, but it's always good to remind each other of this, just in case you forgot.

I appreciate the reminder, thanks. I don't post the majority of my practice, because most of it is done in my living room while I'm watching TV, or outside in the dark after my kids are asleep. I definitely do it slowly, and there are a lot of static holds and things like that. One of the things that really stuck with me my first year playing golf was reading that Tiger Woods likes to practice by making slow, deliberate swings, and I've been practicing like that ever since. I suppose there is no harm in filming and posting some of my practice, though.

 

Anyway, thanks for the advice and encouragement from both of you! I'll keep working at it, and you all can enjoy experience this journey with me.


Don't know if I should have just made a new post, but since I like the rule function, I'll put it all in the same post.

 

Played today for the first time at Cranbury Golf Club. Played from the white tees, 5,707 yards, 67.0/120. Kind of short, but the course managed to offer challenges in a variety of ways which made it interesting. Shot 93, ESC 91, with 32 putts. Hit 3/12 fairways, 3 GIR, made 2 birdies (more on these later), 3 pars (2 scrambles). Miss is pretty much 50/50 left and right, now, so definitely making progress in the ball flight.

 

Wasn't playing all that well on the front 9 (shot 51), so I made a couple of adjustments. Probably going to catch some flak for making swing adjustments mid-round, but I noticed that I wasn't swinging out (to the right) enough, and I added the forward press back as my backswing trigger (the idea was to help facilitate the flat left wrist). Then everything clicked. Really felt like I was slamming the ball, and my contact got significantly better on the back 9 (shot 42). Yup, I shot 51-42 for my 93.

 

Had a couple of course management errors that hurt me. For example, on the par 5 10th, I was 20 yards away from the green after my second shot, but left myself short-sided with a bunker guarding the green. Should have pitched it onto the fat part of the green and two putt for par, instead I tried to stick it close with my pitch, hit it a few yards short. It bounced back into the bunker, right against the lip. Skulled it over the green, pitched it back, two putt for 7 :doh:.

 

Then I shot even par over the next six holes, including the two birdies I mentioned earlier :banana:

 

I wanted to give the birdies some explanation because they came with Shot(s) of the Day:

 

First birdie came on the par 5 13th. Here's what I did on that hole:

It took us a few minutes to find it in the rough because none of us were expecting it to have gone that long. I mean, I knew I absolutely bombed it, but I'm looking around 270ish. It was a high fade that was absolutely perfect (ok, not perfect, I missed the fairway). That little number set up 125 yard shot to a front pin location, which I didn't want to leave short, so I took one more club and put it right in the middle of the back of the green. Left myself a 40' double breaking downhill putt for eagle. Piece of cake, right? Lagged the putt to 1', tapped in for birdie. Unreal.

 

Second birdie comes on the par 5 15th. The hole doglegs left and plays longer after the turn than off the tee. I hit a pretty good 3w, splitting the two fairway bunkers right where the hole turns. Left the ball just short of the bunker. One of my playing partners hit nearly an identical shot (actually he hit first) just short of where I ended up. We get to our balls, and he pulls an iron and proceeds to lay up. I pull my 3w and my friend tells me I should take the smart play like the other guy. I shrug, look down the hole, and tell my friend, "It's wide open. Worst possible outcome, I mishit my 3w and it ends up playing like a layup." Then I crush my 3w, a beautiful push draw:

Two putt for birdie. Easy as pie.

 

Edit: Gotta start working on the short game again.

post #69 of 159
Thread Starter 

This is going to be a pretty long post with lots of video.

 

I decided not to play this week so I can spend some time at the Rutgers practice facility. I didn't work too much on mechanics; I just wanted to film everything I'm doing, kind of like a snapshot of my game. Bonus for figuring out how to stick my tripod in my bag so that I can film a vlog sometime in the near future.

 


Putting:

 

I'm pretty confident with my putting (for my skill level), TBH. I don't work on it, much. Only change I made this year is the putter itself. I won a Dead Aim putter from @ReviewMyGolfPro which I got in 33", which is 1" shorter than my Odyssey #9 (Side note: I lined the thing up perfectly, according to their design, right out of the box and have yet to use the laser training aid). I putt pretty well with it, better than the Odyssey IMO, so it stayed in the bag.

 

I do have a brain fart every now and then with my green reading, but my major weakness is distance control, especially on long lag putts. Here is the video (left those DTL putts longer than I wanted to, but made all the second putts):

 


Short Game:

 

I hit pitches from various locations with different clubs. Pitching motion definitely needs work. The other takeaway I got from it was not to leave myself short-sided.

 

I've already posted some videos in another thread:  In the Rough, Close to the Hole -- What's the Preferred Technique? Here is the standard pitch video:

I was aiming for the front left pin. I didn't hit too many on (only the one from the DTL view, don't remember how many from FO). Besides the motion needing work, I think the takeaway is that I should have hit it longer, to the fat part of the green. Trying to stick it tight to that pin location was stupid on my part (I think I do this kind of thing more often than I should, have to learn to play smarter).

 

I also hit some bunker shots:

Sand was wet and slightly packed. Great for sandcastles. I wasn't building sandcastles. It reminded me why I never really use this practice bunker; the bunkers on the course are in much better shape. I really need to pay attention to how I frame my shots, too. I should take the time to film a practice swing and adjust the camera accordingly.

 

Anyway, these bunker shots were meh. I was putting after each one, but still meh. I have alignment issues out of the bunker. You can see it in the DTL view, I'm aiming at the close flag just down my toe line, and I hit two straight out to the right. Could just be poor contact, too.

 


Long Game:

 

Despite my rant a little less than a week ago, I haven't made any of those mechanical changes. The only thing I wanted to do today was replicate my swing from my last round when I started to hit it great, so that's what I did. Forward press to begin the backswing, and swung out (to the right). I visualize a diagonal line that I want to swing along, and then I do it. Or try to, anyway. It's starting to become automatic. Contact was great, only a few push fades. Most misses were over-draws.

 

6 Iron:

 

Driver:

 

Priority piece looks....

 

Awesome! :dance: I didn't actually realize it changed at all (although it must have, since I was hitting the ball so much better?). Like I said, all I did differently was the forward press. I made the grip change @david_wedzik mentioned a while back.

 

Not really sure what the next piece is, but I have to keep doing this so that it's a permanent (and automatic) change.

 

Quick question, is this too flat?

 


I had some balls left after my (short) range session, so I decided to have a little fun.

 

Here I am trying to hit three different clubs to the 100 yard green:

I didn't hit a single one (I did hit that green several times, earlier) out of eight. The choked down 7 iron is definitely NOT a 100 yard option for me.

 

Need to work on my alignment:

Five balls landed in the red, I hit two fades to the right of the green (3/4 PW and 1/2 7i), and the one duffed 7i.

 

Also, there's this:

Overswing, much?

 

All in all, a great morning for me.

post #70 of 159

I'm just going to comment on your bunker shots, and I did watch all of the vid. Here's what I saw, looks like you made a nice swing, except you decelled through the shots, when you should be accelerating, other than that, I can't see well enough to say anymore.

 

It's to bad that bunker doesn't have more sand in it, kinda like the bunkers at my home course...sigh. 

post #71 of 159
Full swing is looking good. Looks like you have a lot of lag. Key 3 looks good. I would think your handicap has to start coming down.
post #72 of 159

Very nice Bill.. One thing I noticed is that your lower back is slightly arched during your set up, not sure if this is a priority or not, but figured I would point it out as it is easy for me to get out of position at set up sometimes as well.

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