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Slow / Unskilled Golf


Meltdwhiskey
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So I played with an old buddy this weekend - and his son (age 12) and another of his friends.  And it was rough.  If the average for the 3 of them was 150 or better, I'd be floored.

As you can imagine, that many shots X 3 people - combined with not exactly having a keen sense of fast play - we clocked a cool 2.5 hour front nine and didn't remotely finish 18 before dark. We let a few groups play through, but certainly didn't make it easy on the groups behind us.

It got me to thinking - should there be any kind of recommendation to golfers to play par 3's or executives if they aren't of a certain skill level?  Maybe a rating system like ski resorts have - green / blue / black.  Or even like the different tees are rated for HC's at times.  I think the game, the course and this group would have benefited from us playing something a lot more manageable.

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absolutely.  i see many people who shouldnt (IMHO) be on a "real" golf course and should stick to par three courses/driving ranges exclusively.

is it fair?  probably not, at least not in 'Merica.  but i dont care.

Colin P.

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No, there should not be.  Public courses are for everyone to enjoy, not just skilled players.  As far as I am concerned, as long as they let faster groups play through, which you said you did, then I am fine with it.

Whether or not you want to endure it is a personal matter and it is obviously up to you whether you play with them or not.

There are ways to speed up slower groups that you may recommend such as the +3/+4 rule.  Basically, if they aren't in the hole by the time they are 3 or 4 over, they just pick up.

Or maybe you can recommend playing best ball instead of 4 individual balls, which will reduce back and forth time.

Either way, I don't care about a persons skill level as long as they let me play through.  They paid the same money I did and I also can remember when I was really bad too!

Jeff

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No, there should not be.  Public courses are for everyone to enjoy, not just skilled players.  As far as I am concerned, as long as they let faster groups play through, which you said you did, then I am fine with it.

Whether or not you want to endure it is a personal matter and it is obviously up to you whether you play with them or not.

There are ways to speed up slower groups that you may recommend such as the +3/+4 rule.  Basically, if they aren't in the hole by the time they are 3 or 4 over, they just pick up.

Or maybe you can recommend playing best ball instead of 4 individual balls, which will reduce back and forth time.

Either way, I don't care about a persons skill level as long as they let me play through.  They paid the same money I did and I also can remember when I was really bad too!

I totally get what you are saying.  However - I never asked if players shouldn't be allowed to play on a certain course.  I asked if recommendations should be made based on skill level that might benefit everyone involved.

Also, they kind of begrudgingly let groups go through - and after holding them up for a bit.  And if I and one of the guys would not have been there, might not have happened.  I've been behind slow golfers before who clearly didn't know enough about golf to let us through.

They also did sort of play double par.  But if they would have really stuck to it, they wouldn't have made it to the green on many holes and would have surely not had as good of a time.  An enforced double-par rule would have helped us.

I also remember being really bad at golf.  But probably not quite this bad.  And in retrospect, my enjoyment would have been enhanced if I would have played a more manageable course.  I'm not trying to say I'm so good I shouldn't have to play with bad golfers. I'll play with these guys any time.  But I kind of felt bad about the situation and felt we'd be better served at a smaller venue.

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I am sure recommendations would work for some.  But it would probably work to the extent that the signs at the ski courses do :).

Most people are going to play where ever they can.  For example, there is only two par 3 courses in my area.  One is in really bad shape and the other is in great shape.  However, the one in great shape is pretty dang hard and would shred beginners.

Also, most courses aren't going to want to have the stigma of a recommendation for "Beginners/Bad players" play here..

Jeff

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Actually anyone should be able to play but they should play fast and with a purpose.

So I would rather play with a really bad player who plays fast than some single digit handicapper who surveys the green from all angles and does everything but use a vacuum cleaner.

So it is fast play that makes it a pleasure to play with someone, not necessarily their golf skills.

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Actually anyone should be able to play but they should play fast and with a purpose.

So I would rather play with a really bad player who plays fast than some single digit handicapper who surveys the green from all angles and does everything but use a vacuum cleaner.

So it is fast play that makes it a pleasure to play with someone, not necessarily their golf skills.

I do agree with this too.  Skill level doesn't necessarily dictate fast/slow play.  Some of the slowest rounds I've ever played (5-6) hours were because I was stuck behind skilled golfers who lined up every putt as if it were to win the Masters.  And those types of groups have always given me the most trouble when it comes to playing through.

Jeff

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I've been playing for 40 years and since I only play nine holes a week , I am inconsistent . I could make 3 pars in a row and then 2 doubles . My golfing buddy and I simply pick up with a max of 8 on any par 4 . Thank God it doesn't happen often . Same goes if I take  more than 2 shots in a bunker . It's common courtesy . I always tell people we are paired up with , " I may stink , but I'll never slow you down . " If I do get a snowman , though I know a good score is blown , I just try to make 3 or 4 pars for that nine and move on .

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If you don't have a sense of playing with the proper speed means, you probably should play shorter, cheaper courses a few times where people won't care too much. You should also try to play a few times with more experienced players who could give you tips on playing faster (when to pick up, when to not look for a golf ball, etc.).

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I am sure recommendations would work for some.  But it would probably work to the extent that the signs at the ski courses do :).

Most people are going to play where ever they can.  For example, there is only two par 3 courses in my area.  One is in really bad shape and the other is in great shape.  However, the one in great shape is pretty dang hard and would shred beginners.

Also, most courses aren't going to want to have the stigma of a recommendation for "Beginners/Bad players" play here..

I do agree with this too.  Skill level doesn't necessarily dictate fast/slow play.  Some of the slowest rounds I've ever played (5-6) hours were because I was stuck behind skilled golfers who lined up every putt as if it were to win the Masters.  And those types of groups have always given me the most trouble when it comes to playing through.

I think the ski resort ratings actually work pretty well.

I agree that if you don't have a par 3, then you are obviously stuck.  But I'm not sure I agree that a course wouldn't want to seem open to new / beginner / low skill players.  Players who might be intimidated by a bigger course might see it as a way to get into the game and actually go to a course they otherwise woudn't have (although this would not have applied to my buddies).  And more skilled players are probably already aware of courses in their area that are smaller or frequented by lesser players.

I would have thought the opposite might be true - a harder course would not want to scare away potential revenue by saying it might be a 'blue' or 'black' course.  It definitely occurs to me why a course might not be in favor of some recommendations, but I'm not sure why the rest of the golfing world would be. It can only help, right?

And I think if there was some direction for lesser players, it could take some of the macho out - like the tee it forward campaign.  I think they'd have more fun at an easier course.  It might even spur more executive and 9-hole type courses to be built and thrive.

I don't have any stats, but I'd guess that unskilled, inexperienced players are taking up way more time on the course than a bunch of single digits striping it down the middle 260 every time.

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I've been playing for 40 years and since I only play nine holes a week , I am inconsistent . I could make 3 pars in a row and then 2 doubles . My golfing buddy and I simply pick up with a max of 8 on any par 4 . Thank God it doesn't happen often . Same goes if I take  more than 2 shots in a bunker . It's common courtesy . I always tell people we are paired up with , " I may stink , but I'll never slow you down . " If I do get a snowman , though I know a good score is blown , I just try to make 3 or 4 pars for that nine and move on .


This is great iceman, but you know to do it and have been playing for 40 years.  People new to the game don't have a concept of how long it should take or when to pick up.  And some who do play pretty regular just might have an attitude that they paid their money and you can wait.

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I think the mentality around differentiating the tees by "women", "senior", "men" is stupid; just refer to them by their colors.  I played with a new, male player who insisted on playing from the whites because he was a man and that is the "men's tee".  I played from the yellows because I'm also new.  If he connected well, he had a decent drive but the three holes I played with him, he barely got past the reds on two of 'em.  On those two holes, he took two and four strokes to reach my first shot.

If we change the mentality around what we call the tees, and get new players playing the shorter ones, I think that would help to speed up the game as well as making it more approachable/less frustrating to new players.

"No man goes round boasting of his vices,” he said, “except golfers." 

-- Det. Elk in The Twister by Edgar Wallace

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I'd have no problem with your rating system but unless it's strictly enforced, i.e. unless you carry a certain handicap you can't play there it's not going to work.  I've seen it first hand at Bethpage.  Despite the warnings, everyone that goes to Bethpage, regardless of skill level, wants to play Black.

It's the same with the different tee boxes.  New golfers want to play like the pro's, so instead of teeing off from the senior or lady tees, they go back to the tips.  It's a combination of ignorance and arrogance.  Unlike ski resorts where a novice can get hurt or even killed skiing a black diamond trail, there isn't any such threat playing a course or tee box that's beyond your skill level.

Joe Paradiso

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If we change the mentality around what we call the tees, and get new players playing the shorter ones, I think that would help to speed up the game as well as making it more approachable/less frustrating to new players.

Or just change the tee colors. Make the black ones the closest, then gold, then blue, then white, then pink or red or something.

Or use shapes or objects. Which is tougher - the Nail or the Spike tees? The Oak or the Maple tees? The Bottle or the Jar tees? The Labrador or the Weimaraner* tees?

* Because maybe the AKC some day builds a golf course? :)

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All about enforcement in my experience. The courses I play with diligent rangers and pro shop staff prevent golfers from playing the wrong tees. My home course has box recommendations for handicap ranges posted in the shop and on the card. Other places don't even have a starter and anything goes. Problem is people that lack skill typically lack more than distance. At my former home course the tips are just 6400 yards and it's still too far for most because they rarely hit it straight. Men tend to choose which tee box based on the best fluke drive they ever hit not how many FIR they average. They spend all day kicking through weeds looking for balls they tried to kill. Following some "stud" with multidirectional misses that doesn't keep his ball on the maintained areas of the course makes for a long day. I see guys missing fairways you could land an airliner on.

Dave :-)

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So I played with an old buddy this weekend - and his son (age 12) and another of his friends.  And it was rough.  If the average for the 3 of them was 150 or better, I'd be floored.

As you can imagine, that many shots X 3 people - combined with not exactly having a keen sense of fast play - we clocked a cool 2.5 hour front nine and didn't remotely finish 18 before dark. We let a few groups play through, but certainly didn't make it easy on the groups behind us.

It got me to thinking - should there be any kind of recommendation to golfers to play par 3's or executives if they aren't of a certain skill level?  Maybe a rating system like ski resorts have - green / blue / black.  Or even like the different tees are rated for HC's at times.  I think the game, the course and this group would have benefited from us playing something a lot more manageable.

It should be left up to the golf course, but I wouldn't mind more courses placing a set of tees in the fairway for junior golfers to use. Like reduce most par 4's down to less than 300 yards. This would be a cheap, and easy way to speed up play for junior golfers, and allow them to play good golf courses.

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Originally Posted by Meltdwhiskey

So I played with an old buddy this weekend - and his son (age 12) and another of his friends.  And it was rough.  If the average for the 3 of them was 150 or better, I'd be floored.

As you can imagine, that many shots X 3 people - combined with not exactly having a keen sense of fast play - we clocked a cool 2.5 hour front nine and didn't remotely finish 18 before dark. We let a few groups play through, but certainly didn't make it easy on the groups behind us.

It got me to thinking - should there be any kind of recommendation to golfers to play par 3's or executives if they aren't of a certain skill level?  Maybe a rating system like ski resorts have - green / blue / black.  Or even like the different tees are rated for HC's at times.  I think the game, the course and this group would have benefited from us playing something a lot more manageable.

It should be left up to the golf course, but I wouldn't mind more courses placing a set of tees in the fairway for junior golfers to use. Like reduce most par 4's down to less than 300 yards. This would be a cheap, and easy way to speed up play for junior golfers, and allow them to play good golf courses.

I think that would be a good idea.  It would not have helped for the adults in my group - but a good idea either way.

I guess I'm trying to find a way for people to feel better about playing something smaller until they are a little better - or maybe always.  These guys were actually debating which tees to play on the first hole.  I'm having trouble getting my mind around how they are having fun when it takes 7-8 strokes or 2-3 lost balls to get it to the green.  If something could make them feel better about a small course, I swear they could actually have more fun on one.  380 yards is a long way 60 yds at a time.  A bunch of 130 yard holes without hazards could give them a little taste of success here and there.  AND GET THOSE DRIVERS OUT OF THEIR HANDS! Golf is really hard and it seems to me it takes a little practice to effectively play a full course.

Maybe I'm just trying to push my ideas onto other folks. I think the smaller courses are great.

A little off topic - they thought I was incredible at golf.  Although nice they thought that, I found it a little funny.

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I do agree with this too.  Skill level doesn't necessarily dictate fast/slow play.  Some of the slowest rounds I've ever played (5-6) hours were because I was stuck behind skilled golfers who lined up every putt as if it were to win the Masters.  And those types of groups have always given me the most trouble when it comes to playing through.

Yes, I agree.  My brother was a perfect example of a skilled player taking a long time.   He went over all his options, lined up putts, and meticulously recorded what he just did (be it a putt, drive, etc).

My new course does a good job sending marshals out regularly to control pace.   This is all it needs to let slow newbies, or slow skilled players to move along.   I don't see a reason to regulate players beyond that.   This was said many times in other threads.   If marshals do their job, most of these pace problem can be alleviated.

RiCK

(Play it again, Sam)

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Note: This thread is 3797 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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