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Pregnant Student Athletes Losing Scholarships - Page 2

Poll Results: Should a female student athlete on an athletic scholarship lose her scholarship if she becomes pregnant and cannot perform as an athlete?

 
  • 76% (40)
    Yes
  • 23% (12)
    No
52 Total Votes  
post #19 of 227
The more interesting question, and this is probably what Erik was getting at, is what the ncaa rules or school contracts should say. In my view, in answering that question the arguments about personal responsibility or living up to your end are irrelevant because "your end" will be defined by the rules or contract. I keep coming back to treating pregnancy as the same as, say a football player that breaks his ankle shooting hoops. Since I think it would be unfair to take away the football players scholarship, I think I have to say that the girl who gets pregnant should keep hers too.
post #20 of 227
There is part of me that thinks they should keep their scholarship. But birth control is very cheap even free in a number of places. Its such a tough thing for me to have a strong opinion on when its impossible for me to be in that situation.
post #21 of 227
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post

I keep coming back to treating pregnancy as the same as, say a football player that breaks his ankle shooting hoops. Since I think it would be unfair to take away the football players scholarship, I think I have to say that the girl who gets pregnant should keep hers too.

I don't see those situations as all that similar. Pregnancy is virtually 100% preventable, and IS 100% preventable if you abstain.

In both situations, I think the athlete should lose his scholarship. If you can't minimize risk for four years in exchange for $200,000 of education, tough beans.

I also think that athletes injured playing, training, or practicing their sport should keep their scholarships. That could lead to a few grey areas in the football player injured playing basketball scenario, but would never include pregnancy or someone getting in a motorcycle accident, for example.
post #22 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post

The more interesting question, and this is probably what Erik was getting at, is what the ncaa rules or school contracts should say. In my view, in answering that question the arguments about personal responsibility or living up to your end are irrelevant because "your end" will be defined by the rules or contract. I keep coming back to treating pregnancy as the same as, say a football player that breaks his ankle shooting hoops. Since I think it would be unfair to take away the football players scholarship, I think I have to say that the girl who gets pregnant should keep hers too.

Fair enough, we can agree to disagree.

post #23 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post


Sure. And usually the contract will say what constitutes a beach and what the penalty will be. I've got no problem with the boot if that's in the contract, but we don't have it.

I'm pretty sure it's just sand next to a body of water ... but I could be wrong.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hacker101 View Post
 

I agree that we dont have the contract. But say there was no contract at all do you think that they should or should not lose there scholarship if they can not play for 9 months?

The scholarship IS the contract, no?

 

I thought that what dsc originally posted was accurate ... that they don't really need a whole lot of reasons to take away a scholarship.  And although I can't cite them, I'm sure I've heard sad stories about guys who've lost their football scholarships after getting injured WHILE playing football for that college.  Again, I can't cite any specific cases, but I think that is (or was) true.

 

---------------------------------------------------

 

Alternate idea:  They could just give her a "redshirt" season, couldn't they?  If the girl says "I really want to start a family, but I promise I'll bust my butt after the baby is born and I have plenty of help from my husband/boyfriend and my parents so it won't interfere with my training next year" I could see them being OK with that.  Especially at, say, a place like BYU or Utah. ;)

 

I wonder what happens with the WNBAers when they take time off to have kids.  I'm guessing that they have things in their agent-negotiated contracts to account for such things though.

post #24 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

I'm pretty sure it's just sand next to a body of water ... but I could be wrong.

 

The scholarship IS the contract, no?

 

I thought that what dsc originally posted was accurate ... that they don't really need a whole lot of reasons to take away a scholarship.  And although I can't cite them, I'm sure I've heard sad stories about guys who've lost their football scholarships after getting injured WHILE playing football for that college.  Again, I can't cite any specific cases, but I think that is (or was) true.

 

 

All I was getting at is dsc was correct we dont have a contract per say to read. In that a contract it could say what would be accepted or not?

And it is very sad that a player who got hurt playing the game they got a scholarship for would be dropped, that i agree is wrong.

But that is not the case at point, a woman has that choice to take birthcontrol or abstain from sex for 4 years. And I agree with iacas 4 years for a education is not a long time, to get a free education. All about choices, we all have them for the most part.

post #25 of 227

I voted "Yes", but I am not sure if it is clear cut. I could say, a football player who has a season ending injury doesn't usually get his scholarship revoked, so why should a pregnant woman? Though I can also say that the scholarship is for them to compete athletically, so if they are not, then why should they have one. 

 

It is a delicate situation I think. 

post #26 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post

I voted "Yes", but I am not sure if it is clear cut. I could say, a football player who has a season ending injury doesn't usually get his scholarship revoked, so why should a pregnant woman? Though I can also say that the scholarship is for them to compete athletically, so if they are not, then why should they have one. 

It is a delicate situation I think. 

The football player didn't make the personal choice to engage in an activity, off the field, that he knew could cause him to be unable to meet his obligation.

No comparison.
post #27 of 227

Sure it is, its a matter of if the player can play the sport. What if that player injured himself by crashing his car, or hurts himself doing sort of other activity other than his sport? 

post #28 of 227
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
 

Sure it is, its a matter of if the player can play the sport. What if that player injured himself by crashing his car, or hurts himself doing sort of other activity other than his sport? 

 

I don't think they're comparable at all.

post #29 of 227

I voted yes, on the basis that pregnancy is preventable and seems like a lack of responsibility on the athlete's part (unless it was rape). Like some others have mentioned, an athletic scholarship is kind of like a contract and the student is obligated to fulfill her end. I see it like someone on an academic scholarship losing his/her scholarship status because they played too many video games to study for school. It's a personal choice and decision.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post
 

If you want to create a hard comparison its more like a guy that runs down the stairs in dorm, slips, and breaks his leg.  In a perfect world, they both would have been more careful. 

 

I'm sorry, but a slip and fall accident is not analogous to pregnancy.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post
I keep coming back to treating pregnancy as the same as, say a football player that breaks his ankle shooting hoops. Since I think it would be unfair to take away the football players scholarship, I think I have to say that the girl who gets pregnant should keep hers too.

In this example, I feel that the football player should lose his scholarship (unless the school recruited him for basketball, too). Nothing wrong with having other sporting interests, but again, I feel this would be a personal decision unrelated to the scholarship criteria that causes the athlete to fail to meet his obligations. How would you feel if the football player broke his ankle BASE jumping instead of playing basketball?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

Alternate idea:  They could just give her a "redshirt" season, couldn't they?  If the girl says "I really want to start a family, but I promise I'll bust my butt after the baby is born and I have plenty of help from my husband/boyfriend and my parents so it won't interfere with my training next year" I could see them being OK with that.  Especially at, say, a place like BYU or Utah. ;)

I like this idea. Give the girl a chance to come back and redeem herself without jeopardizing her education. And who doesn't love a comeback story? Actually I really like this idea.

post #30 of 227

Ok, I get what your saying, but in terms of the injured player it isn't cut and dry. 

 

To me what's the difference if a woman gets drunk, sleeps with a guy, gets pregnant.  Compared to a guy who gets drunk, gets in an accident and gets injured. 

 

To me both actions are totally on the athlete in question. Both should have their scholarships revoked. So I guess I can't see were a situation would arise for a woman who is pregnant, and keep a scholarship. I also wont say that all injuries should keep a male athlete on scholarship. 

post #31 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post

Sure it is, its a matter of if the player can play the sport. What if that player injured himself by crashing his car, or hurts himself doing sort of other activity other than his sport? 

If the injury was a result of the player recklessly participating in an activity that he knew could cause him to be unable to fulfill the obligation he agreed to in exchange for his education, then yes, he should have no expectation that the school will continue his free ride.

Self inflicted due to his/her own bad decision making, and as Erik said earlier, 100% preventable.


Edited to add that from your last post, it looks like we now agree. c2_beer.gif
post #32 of 227
I voted yes, I wouldve voted HELL yes if I couldve
post #33 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
 

To me what's the difference if a woman gets drunk, sleeps with a guy, gets pregnant.  Compared to a guy who gets drunk, gets in an accident and gets injured. 

 

To me both actions are totally on the athlete in question. Both should have their scholarships revoked. So I guess I can't see were a situation would arise for a woman who is pregnant, and keep a scholarship. I also wont say that all injuries should keep a male athlete on scholarship. 

Yeah, I agree with this.  Like I said before, I'm not even sure that people always get to keep their scholarships when they have career ending injuries that happen during that sport.  It sucks, royally, but I think sometimes, thems just the breaks.

 

And with pregnancy, there is absolutely a double standard, because consider this:  A guy can make the EXACT same mistake as the woman (get drunk, have unprotected sex, make a baby) yet because of biology, he is not punished nearly as much as the girl.  It sucks, it really does.  But, like Erik says, tough beans.

 

This is really funny because right now I'm in the frame of mind of trying to sympathize with the woman, and I started to say that I'd like to think that a school would do the right thing and revoke a mans scholarship in that same situation.  Say something like "He was expelled from school for conduct detrimental yadda yadda ..."  But that's more a matter of perspective, because I just remembered the story of Brandon Davies from a couple of years ago ... http://espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6175090 and that's not at all how I felt then.  I totally sympathized with him so ... I'm torn.

 

Basically, I guess it boils down to, if you voluntarily do something (that you shouldn't be doing) that causes you to be unable to play your sport, then you probably will lose your scholarship.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonTheSavage View Post

I voted yes, I wouldve voted HELL yes if I couldve

You just did. ;)

post #34 of 227

She should lose her scholarship but I could understand if the school decides to uphold it to avoid any negative PR.  There are also a lot of unused scholarships for female golfers (see below).

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

 

Alternate idea:  They could just give her a "redshirt" season, couldn't they?  If the girl says "I really want to start a family, but I promise I'll bust my butt after the baby is born and I have plenty of help from my husband/boyfriend and my parents so it won't interfere with my training next year" I could see them being OK with that.  Especially at, say, a place like BYU or Utah. ;)

 

Redshirting could also be an option.  I think that would be fine.  Most golfers have to red shirt a year anyway, at least that was my experience.  Golfers miss a lot of class, tournaments on Monday and Tuesday don't help lol

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

I don't think they're comparable at all.

 

Agree

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

 

And with pregnancy, there is absolutely a double standard, because consider this:  A guy can make the EXACT same mistake as the woman (get drunk, have unprotected sex, make a baby) yet because of biology, he is not punished nearly as much as the girl.  It sucks, it really does.  But, like Erik says, tough beans.

 

Yes tough beans but Title IX provides a huge opportunity for female golfers.  Division I women's college golf team can have up to six full scholarships for girls while only a maximum of 4.5 for boys.  You also don't have to shoot that great to be on a women's golf team team.  Usually these scholarships are split between all the members on the team, but you can see it's a lot easier to get close to a full scholarship as a female.  According to this article in 2010 there were 217 Division I and 90 Division II colleges that offer girls golf scholarships.  The NCAA estimated that in 2009 more than 200 out of approximately 1,800 girls golf scholarships went unused. 

post #35 of 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

 

 

And with pregnancy, there is absolutely a double standard, because consider this:  A guy can make the EXACT same mistake as the woman (get drunk, have unprotected sex, make a baby) yet because of biology, he is not punished nearly as much as the girl.  It sucks, it really does.  But, like Erik says, tough beans.

 

 

 

Sorry, but in the context of this thread, there's no double standard.  She's not being "punished" for having unprotected sex.  She's being punished for the result of being unable to fulfill the obligation she agreed to as a result of a poor decision she made.  The actual poor decision/behavior has NOTHING to do with it.  A male should suffer the same fate for the same result attributed to different behavior. 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

 

Basically, I guess it boils down to, if you voluntarily do something (that you shouldn't be doing) that causes you to be unable to play your sport, then you probably will should lose your scholarship.

 

 

 

Agree......with the fix as noted.   :-P

post #36 of 227

No. It's sex discrimination. Pure and simple.

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