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Do "ethics matter more than athletics" or does "winning take care of everything"?

birlyshirly

By birlyshirly,
in Tour Talk

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Ernest Jones Incredible Member

Ernest Jones

Perceived ethics or actual ethics?

Assuming we are taking about actual ethics and not assumptions being made with colored glasses...I believe ethics to be more important than winning in all matters with the exception of Love and War in which ethics take a back seat.

Yours in earnest, Jason.
Call me Ernest, or EJ or Ernie.

PSA - "If you find yourself in a hole, STOP DIGGING!"

My Whackin' Sticks: :cleveland: 330cc 2003 Launcher 10.5*  :tmade: RBZ HL 3w  :nickent: 3DX DC 3H, 3DX RC 4H  :callaway: X-22 5-AW  :nike:SV tour 56* SW :mizuno: MP-T11 60* LW :bridgestone: customized TD-03 putter :tmade:Penta TP3   :aimpoint:

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MS256 Great Member

MS256

Good ethics are more important than any game.

No reason to not have good ethics and be a winner.

Bad enough ethics will usually prevent sustained winning (one way or another).

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Fourputt Incredible Member

Fourputt

Good ethics trump anything else in golf.  That is why the "Ettiquette" section is the first chapter in the Rule book.

In other sports, like football, basketball, baseball, not as much, unfortunately.

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

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iacas Hall of Fame Member

iacas

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Perceived ethics or actual ethics?

Assuming we are taking about actual ethics and not assumptions being made with colored glasses...I believe ethics to be more important than winning in all matters with the exception of Love and War in which ethics take a back seat.

Seconded.

Simon Dyson was DQed and given the chance to say he'd tapped down a ball mark. Plus there was that guy at Hilton Head a few years ago who clipped a piece of straw or a thin stick and called the penalty on himself.

It's not unethical to say or stand by what you think is true.

Erik J. Barzeski — ⛳ I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • Author, Lowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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Jmdmbike Great Member

Jmdmbike

The ethics of golf is more important to the overall appeal of the game than simply winning.The players calling penalties on themselves - that's what Brian Davis did a few years ago at Harbour Town even though it meant losing the playoff - is an important part of the culture of the game.

In my Sun Mountain 14 Way Stand Bag:

Driver - Ping G30 10.5* : Fairway - Ping G30 18* : Hybrids - Titleist 915H 21* & 915 H 24* : Irons - Mizuno JPX 850 Forged 5 - GW : Wedges, Vokey 54.14, Vokey 58.12 : Putter - Scotty Cameron Studio Select Newport 2 or Ping Craz-E-R  : Ball - Bridgestone B330RX, Cart - Cliqgear 3.5

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iacas Hall of Fame Member

iacas

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If I've understood EJ's and Iacas' point correctly, let's assume that "ethics" means genuinely ethical conduct - not a smokescreen put up to provide cover for unethical behaviour.

Yeah, uhhhh, that doesn't do anything to clarify things. I can't name a single person who's put up a smokescreen to provide cover for unethical behavior (on the golf course).

Erik J. Barzeski — ⛳ I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • Author, Lowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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boogielicious Incredible Member

boogielicious

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Remember, it is not "unethical" to incur penalties.  They are just penalties.  Even being DQ'd does not indicate you are unethical.  With that being said, ethics is very important.  I did not vote because you did not clarify "ethics" and did not provide a third choice.  I have a feeling this thread will degrade to an anti-Tiger thread again.

Scott

Titleist, Edel, Scotty Cameron Putter, Snell - AimPoint - Evolvr - MirrorVision

My Swing Thread

boogielicious - Adjective describing the perfect surf wave

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birlyshirly Dedicated Member

birlyshirly

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Yeah, uhhhh, that doesn't do anything to clarify things. I can't name a single person who's put up a smokescreen to provide cover for unethical behavior (on the golf course).

well, uh, in that case I didn't understand your and EJ's point at all. Can you elaborate?

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iacas Hall of Fame Member

iacas

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well, uh, in that case I didn't understand your and EJ's point at all. Can you elaborate?

Yes. See post #9.

Erik J. Barzeski — ⛳ I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • Author, Lowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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birlyshirly Dedicated Member

birlyshirly

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Remember, it is not "unethical" to incur penalties.  They are just penalties.  Even being DQ'd does not indicate you are unethical.  With that being said, ethics is very important.  I did not vote because you did not clarify "ethics" and did not provide a third choice.  I have a feeling this thread will degrade to an anti-Tiger thread again.

What's the unstated 3rd option that you would have voted for? Obviously, I thought it would be interesting to juxtapose these 2 quotations - and it would never have occurred to me that playing 3 off the tee after losing a ball could be considered unethical.

There's no reason for this to develop into an anti-Tiger thread - no-one's voted for him yet ;-)

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boogielicious Incredible Member

boogielicious

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It is a rather vague question. "Do "ethics matter more than athletics" or does "winning take care of everything"?"

"They both matter" would be a good third choice in the poll.

Scott

Titleist, Edel, Scotty Cameron Putter, Snell - AimPoint - Evolvr - MirrorVision

My Swing Thread

boogielicious - Adjective describing the perfect surf wave

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birlyshirly Dedicated Member

birlyshirly

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I don't agree. A choice between 2 statements that directly contradict each other forces the voter to make a choice. Your proposed third option lets them avoid making a choice. It's like asking people if they'd like better public services AND lower taxes.

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iacas Hall of Fame Member

iacas

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I don't agree. A choice between 2 statements that directly contradict each other forces the voter to make a choice.

The problem is that these don't directly contradict each other anywhere but in your own mind. Nor do the tax and public services ones. An agency could become more efficient, resulting in better service and lower operational costs. So, thread done. It was always obvious to some of us where you were going with this, but now that it's been confirmed, it's done.

Erik J. Barzeski — ⛳ I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • Author, Lowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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Ernest Jones Incredible Member

Ernest Jones

I don't agree. A choice between 2 statements that directly contradict each other forces the voter to make a choice. Your proposed third option lets them avoid making a choice. It's like asking people if they'd like better public services AND lower taxes.

I don't understand, are you saying that being ethical and winning are mutually exclusive? I don't believe that to be the case. I also don't think that lower taxes AND better services are automatically mutually exclusive either, it takes better management than most bloated governments are capable of but that doesn't make it impossible.

Yours in earnest, Jason.
Call me Ernest, or EJ or Ernie.

PSA - "If you find yourself in a hole, STOP DIGGING!"

My Whackin' Sticks: :cleveland: 330cc 2003 Launcher 10.5*  :tmade: RBZ HL 3w  :nickent: 3DX DC 3H, 3DX RC 4H  :callaway: X-22 5-AW  :nike:SV tour 56* SW :mizuno: MP-T11 60* LW :bridgestone: customized TD-03 putter :tmade:Penta TP3   :aimpoint:

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