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Bogey golfer only thread (handicap index from 16 - 22) - what are you going through, working on,... - Page 2

post #19 of 990

From the fairway I would use either a fairway wood or long iron. One bad shot does not mean I cannot man up and hit a good one, a 190 or 200 approach is not beyond doing.

 

If in the rough probably 5 or 6 iron to center fairway for layup.

 

IMHO every club is in the bag for a reason, I want to learn to use them all as well as I can. :-D

post #20 of 990
Quote:
Originally Posted by CR McDivot View Post
 

From the fairway I would use either a fairway wood or long iron. One bad shot does not mean I cannot man up and hit a good one, a 190 or 200 approach is not beyond doing.

 

If in the rough probably 5 or 6 iron to center fairway for layup.

 

IMHO every club is in the bag for a reason, I want to learn to use them all as well as I can. :-D

 

After playing with several guys at my home course who shoot in the mid 70's, the part I put in bold stuck out to me.   95% of the time, those guys would take the safe route, lay up and try to get up and down, rather than risk another bad shot and double bogey.  That strategy and the fact they don't try to "swing out of their shoes" to get a few extra yards are the two biggest things I have noticed that separates them from guys who shoot 90+.

post #21 of 990

This is a great thread. My HC is north of 22 so I hope nobody minds if I post.

 

Within the last month or so, it feels like I've begun to get a handle on the swing plane and proper sequencing. As a result, my ball striking is improving. Having that kind of confidence allows me to practice one swing instead of constantly modifying it. I've given up on lessons and instruction for now, hoping to get to a certain point on my own before once again seeking professional help. I'm satisfied with the progress of my pitching as well as that of my long clubs - especially my 5 wood.

 

Mentally, I've tried not to freak out when I have a blowup hole or two and if the scorecard ends up ugly, then so be it. I'm not 100% there, but this attitude helps to avoid apprehension and allows for more of a commitment to the shot. As important as it is that my scoring improve, golf for me has to be about enjoying the day on the course.

 

I have to acknowledge one important area of the game that I've learned from TST - always play within the rules even when I'm out there by myself.

 

What I need to work on is my iron swing - weight shift on the downswing, learning how to use my lower body and finishing in balance. I have to remember when I'm getting good results from a smooth swing to remain with this tempo instead of swinging harder. Course management and concentration are always a challenge and I still have to get serious about learning how to putt.

 

Nearing the end of my second year of trying to learn the game and at the age of 52, I know I will never be a single-digit player - probably never get below 20. Yet the game is still as incredibly fun to play and it is difficult to learn.

 

Sob stories... none.

post #22 of 990
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkim291968 View Post
 

I think there are many of us here who have started golf late in life, and struggling to break away from playing bogey golf and join the golf elite.   I am starting a thread for bogey golfers to share their ideas and experience.   Tell us what you are going through, working on, any sob stories you like to share, ....

 

Been playing 3 years now - started at 46.    Limited flexibility, overweight, but have improved considerably up until about 6 months ago - things have really stagnated - every round lately is in the 85-91 slot, which I'm not unhappy with, just not happy with the lack of improvement as of late & utter consistency.    Got in 102 rounds so far this year to date & 3 serious practice rounds.     Obviously, I like to play rather than practice.

 

After much soul searching and analyzing my game in detail to try and identify my glaring weaknesses, I came up with the following:

 

- Driving is my strong suit - I swing fairly smooth & get it out there 230-250 consistently in or near the fairway, usually don't have any OB's.     Chipping is solid - I actually do practice this in my backyard & living room (into a chipping net to my wifes chagrin) - I could always work on getting it closer, but I rarely blade or fat a chip.    Putting is not good - just don't have a knack for reading greens - seen some improvement lately, but it's the second weakest part of my game.      Worst part of my game is GIR's.    I make fairly solid contact with my mid to long irons/hybrids,  BUT have no directional control.     I don't slice or hook them, they just rarely go where I want them to - usually close to pin high but right of left of the green.    Wedges - usually on the green someplace, but putts are waaaaaay longer than they should be - contact & direction could be much better.     So, I realize now after much soul searching that if I ever want to get anywhere close to single digits, I have to actually PRACTICE my approach game (GIR's) & really tighten it up (fortunately, I have a practice field at my local muni that is perfect for this kind of practice).      Putting is what it is - I can live with my ineptness & not get overly worried about it, but at least I know where my efforts need to be focused going forward - GIR's !!!!!!


Edited by inthehole - 11/4/13 at 11:08pm
post #23 of 990

I need to work on my 20 - 50 yard pitching and chipping and get more consistent hitting out of bunkers.  My ball striking is pretty solid, would like some more distance but overall pretty consistent.  My new home course has majority of greens that are uphill and very well protected by sand traps so finding right distance to clear traps and not roll off green or sail over green is difficult.   

post #24 of 990
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meltdwhiskey View Post
 

I wanted to offer a thought on strategy.  I don't largely get involved in actual swing mechanics and such - I more enjoy the strategy discussions. I feel strongly about this applying to we hackers, but it might apply to single digits as well.  Anyway - a buddy and I played this weekend and I realized I had been employing a strategy and had not really ever vocalized it.  He is about a 110 type golfer.

 

On a shortish par 4, I duffed my drive about 90 yards or something.  We get to my ball and I pull a 5i.  He asks me why I'm going iron when I have so much distance to now cover.  It occurred to me how many times I had seen him go with hybrid/fairway wood after a similar duff.  And many other folks over time.  I think the natural choice after a bad shot is to try to get back all you can in the next shot.  You have to right?  You're at a deficit now. But I'd guess a lot of blow-up holes get started this way.  Duffed drive --> long club off the deck --> now lying 3 in woods, pond, bunker or maybe even a lost ball.  Unless you hit a pretty good shot, I feel a snowman could be coming.

 

Unless it is really open, I think the smarter play is to lay back here.  Protecting bogey or maybe even double is a safer bet here than trying to get 200+ yards out of a shot and risking more trouble.  A bogey golfer getting that kind of distance off the deck, down the middle, around any trouble sounds risky to me.  And what is the payoff?  Just being closer really.  You still aren't going to green it.

 

Our normal routine is probably to get on in 3 and 2-putt for bogey.  So:

- At this point, you still have a good chance to do just that with 5i 

- Even if you miss the green from 30-70 with your third shot, you are close and still have a chance to get up and down for bogey

- Even if it takes you 4 to get on and you 2-putt, it isn't as bad as it sounds.  You get bogey on most holes anyway, so getting double after a duffed tee shot is pretty much expected.  Make up for it with a par on a hole where you hit a better tee shot

 

Any thoughts from the bogey gallery?

 

Yeah I pretty much agree with all of this.

 

I've noticed, much to my chagrin, when I hit a green in regulation I tend to 3 putt and when I don't hit the green in regulation I one putt.. leaving me with a bogey in both cases.  Realizing no matter what I do I'm probably gonna bogey the hole has helped me refrain from attempting the make-up shots.  That's probably not the ideal state of mind to have while playing (think positive!) but I put some spin on it so it's a little bit less discouraging.  I try to remember that even when I'm playing well whenever I've birdied or pared a hole I always had 1 really nice shot at some point and they're never from the same spot (approach, putt, whatever) so as long as I'm in a position to get lucky and stick one of those shots my score probably won't be much different than what it would have been even without the muff.

post #25 of 990

Booked a lesson to sort out my swing plane. I'm way too steep and can't play in the soft conditions as I'm hitting 60% of my shots fat!

post #26 of 990
Working on getting rid of the dreaded double and triple bogeys. Every round I'll have at least one triple and a few doubles, which keep me from scoring in the 80s. Most of the time it's just me being stupid and trying to pull off a shot I'm not really capable of. Unfortunately, many other times it's because ill get into a rut of hitting my irons fat and ending up on the green in 4 instead of 3 on the par fours.
post #27 of 990
I am basically a bogey golfer. I have been close to 9 or 10 hc at one point in my thirties, but it takes a lot of effort. If I could play a little more, I think I would be around 10. Of course if "ifs and buts were candies and nuts, we'd all have a happy Christmas!" I have been playing golf for around 40 years, so I will impart some "wisdom", or at least what I think I have learned.

If you haven't done so, take a lesson. There have been many self taught golfers, but many times what you think you are doing and what you are really doing are two different things. Golf is a difficult game, and it is harder if you aren't grounded in the fundamentals. Many adults may not be able to invest the time and money in weekly lessons, but a good lesson or two is better than none. Really, I think if you are older, it is better to space lessons out so that you have time to practice and integrate1 or 2 principles before changing something else. As adults, we are probably not wanting a coach to get us ready for the tour; we need some one to help us understand sound fundamentals and how we match up to that. The fundamentals to me, are grip, posture, alignment, balance, turn, plane, and tempo.

Practice with a purpose. When you first start, there is some merit to beating balls as long as you are beating them correctly. Even if you have proper grip, stance, alignment, plane, etc. , your timing and rhythm need development. If you regularly shoot around 90, then your practice needs to become more focused. It is ok to hit a few to loosen up, or even to hit a few when you can't play to keep your muscles toned, but when you are doing serious practice, you should have a goal in mind. When I am doing this, if I hit four or five the way I want, or even four out of five, I will stop and go putt. When I am practicing putting on the green, I am working on stroke, or distance, and line to a lesser degree. When I am practicing at home on the carpet, I am limited to about 10-15 feet, but when I hit about 3-5 that are "perfect", I quit. Of course carpet doesn' t have the same break or speed as the greens, but when I have putted about 10 minutes a day on the carpet in the week before a round, it is amazing how much better I putt on the course-and the same with chipping/pitching in the yard.

Clubs are a factor, and I believe you generally can play better with better clubs and clubs that fit you, but that doesn't necessarily mean new clubs. Quality clubs that are 3-4 years old can be had for a fraction of their new cost, if that is an issue. One thing that is sometimes overlooked by bogey golfers-I know I did it myself for years-is the condition of the grips. It doesn't matter if you have the newest Callaway or the cheapest Kmart special, you need your grips in good condition. Slick grips are difficult to control, and cause you to grip to hard trying which inhibits your swing. Find grips that fit you and change them before they get slick.

As others have said, loosen up and work on things on the range, and try to not do that when you are playing. Starting out that is hard, but try as best you can. Develop a routine that prepares you for your shot, doesn't take too long, and is repeatable. When you get over the ball, try to focus on the target, and on one swing thought. Freddie Couples once said," I take it back, I hit it, and that is as good as it gets." All of us don't have that ability or attitude, but that is kind of what you are striving for, especially on "stock" shots. A couple that work for me sometimes once I have lined up are, keep your head still and make a smooth back and through-then I go.

Also as others have said, plan a strategy that works to your strengths and stick with it. If you see things that you could do better, then work on those on the range/short game area. Try not to make major changes mid round--as Sam Snead said, "you gotta dance with who you brung".

Random thoughts:

From Mel Gibson in "The Patriot", "Aim small, miss small." On a straight 18 inch putt, aim for a blade of grass or a speck of dirt in the cup. It makes the hole bigger.

On putting, when I am over the ball , I have picked a line and committed. I concentrate on feel for the distance , making a smooth stroke down the line, and hitting the sweet spot .

Don't try to follow up a terrible shot with a brilliant shot. Pick a club you are confident in and a target you are comfortable reaching and make a good swing. Aim small and miss small.
post #28 of 990
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetsknicks1 View Post

Working on getting rid of the dreaded double and triple bogeys. Every round I'll have at least one triple and a few doubles, which keep me from scoring in the 80s. Most of the time it's just me being stupid and trying to pull off a shot I'm not really capable of. Unfortunately, many other times it's because ill get into a rut of hitting my irons fat and ending up on the green in 4 instead of 3 on the par fours.

Stupidity is definitely my biggest handicap.
post #29 of 990
Quote:
Originally Posted by CR McDivot View Post
 

From the fairway I would use either a fairway wood or long iron. One bad shot does not mean I cannot man up and hit a good one, a 190 or 200 approach is not beyond doing.

 

If in the rough probably 5 or 6 iron to center fairway for layup.

 

IMHO every club is in the bag for a reason, I want to learn to use them all as well as I can. :-D

One bad shot doesn't mean you won't hit another one, either. If you're referring to the example from earlier, the player duffed their tee shot to the tune of 90 yards on a shortish par 4. The way I saw it, that would leave at least 220+. I don't know your game, but it's very unlikely for me to hit the green from that yardage, but I may top another one, leaving another 200 yard approach, or in the trees, or OB. All of these situations would be detrimental to my score. That's why the strategy is to lay up.  At that point, shoot for bogey, if you get a good approach after the lay up, you may still one putt for par. Avoid the big numbers.

post #30 of 990
Quote:
Originally Posted by CR McDivot View Post
From the fairway I would use either a fairway wood or long iron. One bad shot does not mean I cannot man up and hit a good one, a 190 or 200 approach is not beyond doing.

If in the rough probably 5 or 6 iron to center fairway for layup.

IMHO every club is in the bag for a reason, I want to learn to use them all as well as I can. :-D

 

Thanks for the response CR.  

 

Actually, I am sort of trying to say that you cannot man up and hit a good one.  And I am saying that a 190 or 200 yard approach is beyond doing.  Sort of.  I'm not saying it is impossible, but I am saying that it is improbable.  Very improbable for a bogey golfer.  I can't imagine how close I need to be to start hitting the green 50% of the time (and it would probably depress me to know).  I think Iacas had a stat in another thread that said Tiger (the greenest golfer on tour this year) hit 85% at 105 yards (115?).  A bogey golfer greens very few from 200 or more.  I bet I've done it once ever.

 

If this particular hole had no sand, ponds, creeks or woods - I can agree with you and I'd play a longer club.  At that point, there isn't much risk.  

 

But most holes have sand, water, or woods - and those things 'catch' the ball.  So if you don't hit it perfect, you risk getting into trouble that could take multiple shots to get out of.  We're not good enough to place it around hazards at that distance. Even if I hit a decent tee shot, I will still lay up if the green is protected and I'm longer than a 5i or 6i out.  I'd rather be 20 yds out and on grass than be in a bunker.  I can get down in 2-3 shots from there.

 

And hitting a 200+ yard club comes with problems:

- it is more difficult to pull off a good shot than with a shorter club (not to mention it is off the deck)

- if you don't pull off a good shot - the errant shot is wilder than with a shorter club

 

Chances are, even if you pull off a pretty good trouble-free shot, you still aren't going to be on in 2.  It sounds like a lot of risk for little reward.

post #31 of 990
Thread Starter 

After a poor drive (be it a pop up, long roll, shank left), I would only "go" for a long 2nd shot into green only if its surrounding is absolutely OB free.   Otherwise, I will lay up to where I can hit a GW or PW.   I just need to calm down first to hit a careful layup shot.   There have been times that I screw up my layup shot b/c I was still mentally out of whack from the 1st one.  Sigh.

post #32 of 990
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkim291968 View Post
 

I just need to calm down first to hit a careful layup shot.   There have been times that I screw up my layup shot b/c I was still mentally out of whack from the 1st one.  Sigh.

 

I've actually gotten better at this lately and it has been good for me.  I used to have difficulty getting over a bad shot.  Like if I stewed over it enough, somehow time would go backwards and I'd be able to fix it.  But I don't think you can do that.  That is an emotional response and isn't helping the next shot.  That's what I tell myself anyway.

 

Also, I have a buddy who never gets upset no matter how bad the shot or the round.  And if I started complaining too hard about my poor play when he was around, I kinda felt silly.

post #33 of 990
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbuck View Post

Stupidity is definitely my biggest handicap.
Lol and stupidity is really what it is isn't it? Can't how many times I'll hit a good drive on a par 5 and stand there knowing that a 5 iron to inside of 150 is the the smart play but what do I do? I grab the 3W in an attempt to give me a wedge into the green and of course, I fly it right and get myself in trouble.
post #34 of 990
Quote:

Originally Posted by billchao View Post

 

I don't practice putting at all, though. I should probably work on that more, but I feel my priority is still the long game. For example, in my last round (a disastrous 108), I had six three-putts. I also had ten tee shots that cost at least stroke to recover from (OB, into trees, topped,, chunked, lost, into another fairway, etc.) along with five penalty strokes for hazards and lost balls. I'm no rocket scientist, but last I checked, 15 > 6. I'll start working on putting when I feel it is starting to hold me back.

 

I'm not in this thread's HC range anymore, but I can't agree more with this.  It's really what's brought my HC down.  Like Bill, I also have had a back yard for various periods where I could practice green side shots, and did that cause I think it's fun, and that definitely helped my scores.  But it's shoring up the full swings, especially the tee shots, that I focused on and has brought down my scores.  I used to hit off the tee more like Bill above, hitting 6 or 8 crap drives a round that cost me at least a stroke.  And then even with a good tee shot, or after a chip out, if the scoring irons are also inconsistent, all that pitching practice doesn't mean anything cause you'll leave yourself in a crap spot with some bad lie punch over a trap or something!

 

Six three putts in a round is brutal, but if you hit 6-7 GIR and get accurate enough that on most of the other holes you're near the green with at least a semi-reasonable up and down chance for par, you can still shoot in the 80s even with something like 40 putts.  And if you're doing that, improving putting and short game is WAY easier and you can shave a bunch more strokes off your score super fast.

post #35 of 990
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meltdwhiskey View Post
 

And hitting a 200+ yard club comes with problems:

- it is more difficult to pull off a good shot than with a shorter club (not to mention it is off the deck)

- if you don't pull off a good shot - the errant shot is wilder than with a shorter club

 

Chances are, even if you pull off a pretty good trouble-free shot, you still aren't going to be on in 2.  It sounds like a lot of risk for little reward.

This is exactly my point, as well. As high handicaps, we should all take a step back before we try to rip our next hero shot and consider this. Am I really going to put this 3w on the green? Chances are, I'm not. I don't hit that well at the range, I'm definitely not going to get it on the course.

 

Part of the reason we are all high handicaps is because our skills aren't as developed, but I feel major part is because we lack good course management skills. I've played with some pretty good golfers whose rounds I would describe as "uneventful." They aren't lighting it up with birdies, but they're also avoiding all trouble. You kind of forget about them for a while (because everyone is waiting to see if I can hit that 90 yard punch out of the woods for the 5th time), but you look at the scorecard and all of a sudden they've scored seven consecutive pars. Hero shots feel great when you pull them off, but I'd trade all my hero shots for routine pars any day of the week.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkim291968 View Post
 

After a poor drive (be it a pop up, long roll, shank left), I would only "go" for a long 2nd shot into green only if its surrounding is absolutely OB free.   Otherwise, I will lay up to where I can hit a GW or PW.   I just need to calm down first to hit a careful layup shot.   There have been times that I screw up my layup shot b/c I was still mentally out of whack from the 1st one.  Sigh.

I mess up my layups sometimes because I'm not focused enough. I just pull an iron and hit it without really concentrating on my target at all. Gotta stop doing that.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdl View Post
 

Six three putts in a round is brutal, but if you hit 6-7 GIR and get accurate enough that on most of the other holes you're near the green with at least a semi-reasonable up and down chance for par, you can still shoot in the 80s even with something like 40 putts.  And if you're doing that, improving putting and short game is WAY easier and you can shave a bunch more strokes off your score super fast.

Yea, I suck, thanks for pointing that out :-D. But seriously, it was a REALLY bad round. I managed three GIR with only one par, but even if I parred all three holes, I still would have shot 106. I think earthworms are filing a class action lawsuit against me as I type this.

post #36 of 990
A little off the current topic, but reading the last post reminded me of something that's really been helping me.

Aiming for the green, and not the flag. Obviously when the pin is in prime position, I aim for it, but if it's anything but in the middle I've been consciously aiming for middle green... before I'd always be aiming for the pin. Reducing my misses I guess you'd say.
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TheSandTrap.com › Golf Forum › The Clubhouse › Golf Talk › Bogey golfer only thread (handicap index from 16 - 22) - what are you going through, working on, sob stories, ....