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Bogey golfer only thread (handicap index from 16 - 22) - what are you going through, working on,... - Page 20

post #343 of 901
Quote:
Originally Posted by 40learner View Post

Sob stories- Every game is a sob story ha. I hit a 76 stroke the other week and when I reflected I thought of the shots I missed.
Is that what you do when you hit your best scores?

I think 'sob' was not intended as 'sobbing with joy' like the pros after winning the masters.

Nice job on the 4 or 5 over!

Enough of those, and you'll be in the 'Low single digit...' thread.
post #344 of 901
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meltdwhiskey View Post
 

 

I have only been offering up thoughts on how a bogey golfer score score better with the skill set he has. 

 

 

I think this statement is the fundamental difference between you and I.   Your strategy is fine for a bogey golfer who is playing in a tournament or other event where there is something of significance to gain.   In fact, when the score counts for more than just my handicap, I typically employ the "safe" strategy.   But my goal is not just to minimize my score with my current skill set.   It's to minimize my score with a BETTER skill set and I don't think you can improve your skill set by always playing the safe shots and safe strategy... 

 

I also don't think you can improve your skill set with just range practice.   At least, I know that to be the case for me...  

post #345 of 901
Quote:
Originally Posted by teamroper60 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meltdwhiskey View Post

 

I have only been offering up thoughts on how a bogey golfer score score better with the skill set he has. 

I think this statement is the fundamental difference between you and I.   Your strategy is fine for a bogey golfer who is playing in a tournament or other event where there is something of significance to gain.   In fact, when the score counts for more than just my handicap, I typically employ the "safe" strategy.   But my goal is not just to minimize my score with my current skill set.   It's to minimize my score with a BETTER skill set and I don't think you can improve your skill set by always playing the safe shots and safe strategy... 

I also don't think you can improve your skill set with just range practice.   At least, I know that to be the case for me...  

Yeah, at least it looks like we mostly agree that these strategies will actually result in a lower score, and that is all I was trying to point out. I like to play a competition as often as I can - which is usually a $2 nassau. But I consider golf to be a game or a sport and I don't want to lose every time.

As for playing with a better skill set, I'll leave it to the coaching types to say what is the best way to develop. Maybe being a 20 cap and employing the strategy of a 5 cap is the best thing for our game - not sure.

But I certainly ENJOY shooting an 85 more than a 95. And I enjoy beating my buddies or placing in tourneys when it happens.

I also don't have any proof yet that employing the 5 cap strategy is really that good for our game. If someone - notably one of the coaching types - has some info on that, I could certainly be convinced. And I'd try to do what was best for that development.

As far as not being able to improve your skillset with range practice and while employing stroke saving atrategies while in a match - yak squeeze. I see your point about the range. No it isn't the course. And I see your point about pulling off shots on the course in game day conditions. There is definitely merit to that. And we might have to do a little digging to get to exactly what degree and at what stage these things take on maximum effectiveness.

But to say "I dont think you can improve your skill set with just going to the range"? Of course you can. You can get better at ballstriking, distance, touch, drawing, fading, high shots, knock down shots, flop shots and everything else and never set foot on a golf course.

Now, taking those concepts and transporting them to the course for practice is certainly one of the steps in getting better pulling them off on the course. I totally get that. But we might disagree on when to debut that 210 yard shot to a green guarded by sand and water - or whatever shot is a low percentage play for us hackers.

I guess maybe I'm trying to have it all - stroke saving strategies AND development. And maybe I'm asking too much. Once again a question for the coaches. But I tend to incorporate things when they have become somewhat reliable on the range first.

For example, After an initial few months of poison ivy, scuba diving and frustration, I went to irons only and immediately quit scoring over 100. Then practiced hybrid at the range until it was more consistent for tee shots. I then added it back for some wide fairway holes. When that got better, a little bit skinnier holes. The scores started to drop some more. Meantime I was working on more 3 wood at the range. When it looked better I then incorporated it for those really wide fairways and hybrid kept getting more use on the more difficult holes. Etc. Etc. And insert same story for whatever approach shots or whatever else.

The point is, of course I didn't just go to irons only and stay there forever because it dropped my scores. I practiced on the range and then incorporated things when they just barely became a good percentage shot and kinda riding the line there. And it was shaky at first, but it got better. I push the limits a little because I want to eventually get a more comprehensive arsenal, just like you. But I usually don't play the shot if I know full well it is a low percentage play that is likely to cost me strokes. Maybe what I'm doing is being a 16 cap and playing a good strategy for a 15 or 14 cap and trying to chase it on down. But while I do, I get to enjoy better scores and sharpen course management skills.

As stated above, maybe the coaches have an answer for which path is best. But I really don't think that my progressive incorporation method (I just made that up) is detrimental to my development. Actually, I'd imagine it us useful in coaching and teaching of many pursuits.
post #346 of 901
Quote:
Originally Posted by teamroper60 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meltdwhiskey View Post

 

I have only been offering up thoughts on how a bogey golfer score score better with the skill set he has. 

I don't think you can improve your skill set by always playing the safe shots and safe strategy... 

I'd also like to note that my comments aren't strictly about a "safe" strategy but rather the best strategy. It's about considering the different scenarios and playing the odds for doing what stands the best chance to get u down in the fewest strokes. It just so happens that since we stink a little, the safe play tends to be that best chance more often than we'd like.

In whatever situation the odds tip in your favor of avoiding trouble on an approach shot from whatever distance, then going for it becomes the right play and a safer alternative becomes the wrong play.
post #347 of 901
I didn't mean to imply there is nothing to be gained by the range. Certainly there is. But I do know for me (and speaking only for me) there is a HUGE difference between my "range game" and my on course game. I can hit bucket fulls of beautiful shots with the driver on the range, only to hit pushes, fades and hooks on the course. I even know why it happens. At the range I stay in tempo and focused. But once I get on the course my tempo changes and consequently, my game changes. In fact, on course tempo is what my instructor and I are now working on for just that reason.
post #348 of 901
Quote:
Originally Posted by teamroper60 View Post

I didn't mean to imply there is nothing to be gained by the range. Certainly there is. But I do know for me (and speaking only for me) there is a HUGE difference between my "range game" and my on course game. I can hit bucket fulls of beautiful shots with the driver on the range, only to hit pushes, fades and hooks on the course. I even know why it happens. At the range I stay in tempo and focused. But once I get on the course my tempo changes and consequently, my game changes. In fact, on course tempo is what my instructor and I are now working on for just that reason.

I totally get that. I'd bet most of us experience what u are by different degrees. But that is a bit of a deviation from what u wrote above.

You wrote that u wanted to minimize your score by using a skillset better than u have now, that you didn't think you could improve your skillset while employing stroke saving strategies, and that people can't improve their skillset with just range work. And that is what i responded to.

Also of note - u can practice a club on the course and still minimize risk. Just use it in the safest situations first - like wide fairways (or fairways beside other fairways) with that driver. When it gets more dependable, use it on thinner fairways. Best of both worlds right?
post #349 of 901
Sorry.. Typing this on my phone....


As I said before, my goal is not just to score lower now but to improve my skill set so I can score lower over the long haul. I hate to lose as much as the next guy but I also know I will need to be able to hit all my clubs and play from uneven lies if I want to win long term and that isnt gonna happen hitting off nearly perfect lies on the driving range under ideal stress free conditions. So I believe there are very distinct limitations to skill set improvement that can be attained on the range. I think the range is important for sure. It's where you learn the basics and practice them to stay sharp. But it doesn't do a very good job of simulating real on course shots we are often faced with. It also doesn' do a good job of simulating the pressure faced on the course. If you slice one on the range, it's no biggie. So the pressure is not there.
post #350 of 901
Damn phone... Can'edit like I need to.....

Regarding strategies.. I don't think I am making myself clear.. I don't go out and play hero shots on the course. If I end up in a spot where only Bubba could bend it, I'm not playing it like Bubba would. But I am also not going to play 3 eight irons into a 450 yd par 4 just because I might miss the fairway with a longer club. Thanks to my putting skills (or more correctly lack of skills) that strategy will net me a double bogey 7 out of 10 times. Barring some serious hazards, I am gonna play the hole with the intention of being on in 2.
post #351 of 901

Good points.

Our skill sets need to expand and practice on a course when possible.

A range will let you believe you have things right until we hit the course and encounter uneven lies and turf interaction not a mat.

post #352 of 901
Quote:
Originally Posted by teamroper60 View Post

Damn phone... Can'edit like I need to.....

Regarding strategies..  I don't go out and play hero shots on the course. If I end up in a spot where only Bubba could bend it, I'm not playing it like Bubba would. But I am also not going to play 3 eight irons into a 450 yd par 4 just because I might miss the fairway with a longer club.

Ha I am enjoying hearing other peoples opinions with a similar handicap and your strategies.

I almost never play safe unless I am doing well in a comp. I love bending it like bubba and firing through trees with a driver.

My strategy is I am new to golf so I need to experience what is possible for me and what is not.

My goal is to lower my handicap and I believe all my experiences will help give me the mind set and feel when I get in a situation.

I have more excitement and fun when I have challenging shots even if I stuff it up.

I guess being new at golf I still play for the fun and excitement, sure I get upset when I blow it but I walk away with experience and knowledge.

I dream to be a 10 handicap by the end of my fifth year. I think it is possible.

I believe the range will not lower my scores but I think it helps keep my swing in check. If you only play once a week without practice, don't expect to lower your handicap very quickly.

post #353 of 901
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkim291968 View Post
 

 

I thought this was just a myth.   Here in CA, $5 around gives you about 50 balls, the smallest bucket you can get.   And more places are charging $6 or $7 for the smallest bucket. 

ouch!!

yah - the advantages of the Midwest i guess.  that being said, its a rickety, floodplain, old rattrap of a place.  but therin lies its charm. 

post #354 of 901
Quote:
Originally Posted by teamroper60 View Post

Sorry.. Typing this on my phone....


As I said before, my goal is not just to score lower now but to improve my skill set so I can score lower over the long haul. I hate to lose as much as the next guy but I also know I will need to be able to hit all my clubs and play from uneven lies if I want to win long term and that isnt gonna happen hitting off nearly perfect lies on the driving range under ideal stress free conditions. So I believe there are very distinct limitations to skill set improvement that can be attained on the range. I think the range is important for sure. It's where you learn the basics and practice them to stay sharp. But it doesn't do a very good job of simulating real on course shots we are often faced with. It also doesn' do a good job of simulating the pressure faced on the course. If you slice one on the range, it's no biggie. So the pressure is not there.

For goodness sake, I never said to quit playing golf on the course. By all means, keep playing the course. I play the course all the time. And I play uneven lies. And i play the stress of "course" shots. I never wrote that I thought it was a good idea to abandon play on the course and just practice at the range.
post #355 of 901
Quote:
Originally Posted by 40learner View Post

Ha I am enjoying hearing other peoples opinions with a similar handicap and your strategies.
I almost never play safe unless I am doing well in a comp. I love bending it like bubba and firing through trees with a driver.
My strategy is I am new to golf so I need to experience what is possible for me and what is not.
My goal is to lower my handicap and I believe all my experiences will help give me the mind set and feel when I get in a situation.
I have more excitement and fun when I have challenging shots even if I stuff it up.
I guess being new at golf I still play for the fun and excitement, sure I get upset when I blow it but I walk away with experience and knowledge.
I dream to be a 10 handicap by the end of my fifth year. I think it is possible.
I believe the range will not lower my scores but I think it helps keep my swing in check. If you only play once a week without practice, don't expect to lower your handicap very quickly.

I can't even do those on the practice range!

On purpose that is...
post #356 of 901
Quote:
Originally Posted by teamroper60 View Post

Damn phone... Can'edit like I need to.....

Regarding strategies.. I don't think I am making myself clear.. I don't go out and play hero shots on the course. If I end up in a spot where only Bubba could bend it, I'm not playing it like Bubba would. But I am also not going to play 3 eight irons into a 450 yd par 4 just because I might miss the fairway with a longer club. Thanks to my putting skills (or more correctly lack of skills) that strategy will net me a double bogey 7 out of 10 times. Barring some serious hazards, I am gonna play the hole with the intention of being on in 2.

I can't see your handicap since I'm on my phone, but most bogey golfers are probably getting just a few GIR per round anyway - and that's on 325-400 yard part 4s. It would be pretty rare to get one on a 450. What kind of courses are you playing?

I bet bogey golfers get double on that hole 7 out of 10 times no matter the strategy. That's a tough hole!

But if there is no trouble as you say, I'm with you. Let it all hang out.

But let's say you hit a great 250 yd drive right down the gullet. And now you have a 200 yard shot to the green - which has water off to the right and a deep bunker short and left.

Remember, Stetson (the best on tour from that range) only greens it 65% of the time from 175-200. But that is a high percent play for him. It is a low percent play for us. That might never be an over 50% play for some of us - but it will certainly be a long time even if it does. You are likely to get wet or caught in that bunker and add some unnecessary strokes.

So maybe hit it 180 to a safer landing spot. Short of that bunker. From there (60 feet) you should be able to chip it to 2 put range right? If so, you walk away with bogey on an extremely hard hole you weren't going to par anyway (statically speaking).

I think this gives you the best chance to score the lowest. And you got to hit a 250 yard shot and a 180. That's pretty good on-course practice and a good job if you pulled off both shots. And I find it unlikely that you'll get golf coaches to say that this strategy is retarding one's development as a golfer.
post #357 of 901
Quote:
Originally Posted by 40learner View Post
 

Good points.

Our skill sets need to expand and practice on a course when possible.

A range will let you believe you have things right until we hit the course and encounter uneven lies and turf interaction not a mat.

 

That's very true. I, speaking just for myself, noticed that my ball striking improved dramatically once I started going to the course more, especially with my driver. I tend to use the grass at the local range more than mats, so hitting fat all the time wasn't an issue. But ball shaping, on the other hand, really started to come on the course. I've never hit a draw with my driver at the range, but I've been able to (on occasion) on the course, when I'm standing on the tee and able to see exactly where I want my shot to go (and exactly where I DON'T want it to go).

post #358 of 901
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meltdwhiskey View Post

I can't see your handicap since I'm on my phone, but most bogey golfers are probably getting just a few GIR per round anyway - and that's on 325-400 yard part 4s. It would be pretty rare to get one on a 450. What kind of courses are you playing?

I bet bogey golfers get double on that hole 7 out of 10 times no matter the strategy. That's a tough hole!

But if there is no trouble as you say, I'm with you. Let it all hang out.

I think this gives you the best chance to score the lowest. And you got to hit a 250 yard shot and a 180. That's pretty good on-course practice and a good job if you pulled off both shots. And I find it unlikely that you'll get golf coaches to say that this strategy is retarding one's development as a golfer.

450 is a really long hole for the standard tees, but usually they are wide open and conducive to all out drives and second shots.
post #359 of 901
The 450 yd par 4 was a hypothetical to illustrate the point that if I play from the tee using clubs that obviously give me no chance at par, I will double it more times than not. I am speaking from experience about my game when I say that. Last year I played for bogey most of the time and my handicap was 24. This year, playing for par when at all possible (again, no hero shots from behind trees), my handicap is now dead up 18 and has been as low as 17.
post #360 of 901
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkim291968 View Post
 

 

I thought this was just a myth.   Here in CA, $5 around gives you about 50 balls, the smallest bucket you can get.   And more places are charging $6 or $7 for the smallest bucket. 

 

All of the ranges/courses I go to, charge 7.00 for a small bucket. One range has Jumbo buckets for 13.00, not sure how many balls are in there..

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