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If you could change ONE rule, what would it be? - Page 15

post #253 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by hopefulhacker View Post


Ah ok, it read to me that you bought into their "winter rules".
They should rename it "Winner Rules" because with that much cheating, you can't lose ;)

Rofl, but they can and do!

post #254 of 337

OK, how about this one ... the ability to repair spike marks in my line of putt (rule 16-1) ... surely that is an acceptable rule change with this group.  :) 

 

 

 

 (I do enjoy the banter and hearing different points of view, especially from the folks that are hyper about the rules ... ) 

post #255 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunther View Post


Not impossible at all. I've answered this before. If the player deems it a divot, regardless how old it is, he gets relief. May have to call in a playing partner or rules official to corroborate and if they do not, he does not get relief. Happens on greens from time to time. Player thinks it's a pitch mark, calls over playing partner to confirm.

 

The better argument, IMO, would be that you just get to lift, clean, and place, without restrictions.  I'm not saying that I believe that should be the rule, but as soon as you call the playing partner or rules official over, what are they going to have to decide?  Whether or not its a divot.  Trying to define that is like trying to define a "catch" in football.  Nothing makes sense and you end up with people arguing over their interpretations.  If you think that divots are unfair, presumably you think that a ball in the fairway should result in a good lie.  So if that's where you're coming from, there's really no reason to not just play LCP.  

 

Like anybody else, it burns me when my ball lands in a divot.  Or a dirt patch in the fringe.  Or a footprint in a bunker.  And when I'm playing, my immediate reaction is that it isn't fair.  It shouldn't be that way and I did nothing to cause it.  The score that I'm trying to shoot or the match I'm trying to win is now more difficult because of it.  The only way to move beyond that--and its something I struggle with--is to truly accept that overcoming bad breaks is part of the game.  And life, of course.

post #256 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post

The better argument, IMO, would be that you just get to lift, clean, and place, without restrictions.  I'm not saying that I believe that should be the rule, but as soon as you call the playing partner or rules official over, what are they going to have to decide?  Whether or not its a divot.  Trying to define that is like trying to define a "catch" in football.  Nothing makes sense and you end up with people arguing over their interpretations.  If you think that divots are unfair, presumably you think that a ball in the fairway should result in a good lie.  So if that's where you're coming from, there's really no reason to not just play LCP.  

Like anybody else, it burns me when my ball lands in a divot.  Or a dirt patch in the fringe.  Or a footprint in a bunker.  And when I'm playing, my immediate reaction is that it isn't fair.  It shouldn't be that way and I did nothing to cause it.  The score that I'm trying to shoot or the match I'm trying to win is now more difficult because of it.  The only way to move beyond that--and its something I struggle with--is to truly accept that overcoming bad breaks is part of the game.  And life, of course.

Hear ya, don't like playing from divots much, especially nasty ones, but I do it. Given the thread title, this is the one rule I'd change; not much more to it than that really.
post #257 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunther View Post

Hear ya, don't like playing from divots much, especially nasty ones, but I do it. Given the thread title, this is the one rule I'd change; not much more to it than that really.

I don't like playing from knarly rough, downhill lies, or deep fairway bunkers either. Sadly, they're all part of the game. a2_wink.gif
post #258 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

 

I've never seen a recreational golfer take a stroke and distance penalty by returning to the original point.  If he hasn't played a second ball before he goes forward, then he's going to drop where he feels like dropping and play on from there.  If you have seen that, then you play in a very different world than the rest of us.  Half the time the casual golfer doesn't even know the provisional ball rule, so he isn't going to lose time playing one of them either.  He isn't going to play any faster or any slower based on your rules or on the actual rules.

 

As has been stated before, it's a foolish idea to change rules to accommodate the casual player, because he doesn't care about the rules anyway.  The recreational golfer plays by rules that he heard from his friend, or brother, or father - you get the idea.  He's never seen or wanted to see a rule book, and he isn't going to care if you change a few rules for him.  He's going to continue to play as it works for him.  The odds are very good that he would never even know that you changed any rules to help him.  

 

I like to play by the rules.  I've done so for many years.  Yet in a recreational round, I don't return to the previous spot when a ball is unexpectedly lost. I drop, add 2 strokes for a score within my group and play on.  If I'm playing the round for handicap, I'll adjust that hole score based on the requirements of the USGA handicap manual.  If I feel that I've hit into a questionable area, I'll play a provisional ball (which I do more than 90% of the time) and when I get to where I lost sight of the original, I'll give it a quick look.  If the ball seems unlikely to be findable or playable, then I just go play on with the provisional ball(if you can't afford to lose a few balls then maybe you should take up tennis).  

 

It would be more sensible to devote our efforts to training slow players in good pace of play etiquette rather than in making ourselves feel good by changing rules that won't have any effect on them anyway.


I didn't mention going back to the original point at all. I mentioned hitting provisionals that were no better than the first shots, and I've seen that too many times to count. I saw a guy hit four on a hole last year and from what I could see I doubt if he found any of them.

 

I couldn't care less whether the "casual player" you talk about follows the rules or not as long as they aren't hitting provisionals that they have to look for and hold up the entire course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
 

 

You're advocating changing the rule, because people don't abide by the current rule.  I really don't care about people who choose not to play by the rules.  They can do anything they like.....and if it speeds them up, so much the better, but let's not change the rules of golf in an effort to accommodate their unwillingness to play by the rules in the first place!


Actually in the scenario I used I never said anything about whether that group broke a rule or not. Technically they could all hit provisionals and spend 5 minutes each searching for them. Realistically they probably never do find them all and then do break a rule by not going back to the tee box (thank God).

 

Amazing that in a thread titled "If you could change ONE rule" people want to argue that an opinion is the wrong opinion. SMH.

post #259 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS256 View Post
 
 

I didn't mention going back to the original point at all. I mentioned hitting provisionals that were no better than the first shots, and I've seen that too many times to count. I saw a guy hit four on a hole last year and from what I could see I doubt if he found any of them.

 

I couldn't care less whether the "casual player" you talk about follows the rules or not as long as they aren't hitting provisionals that they have to look for and hold up the entire course.

 
Technically they could all hit provisionals and spend 5 minutes each searching for them. Realistically they probably never do find them all and then do break a rule by not going back to the tee box (thank God).

 

 

 

All of which is why I said:  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

  If the ball seems unlikely to be findable or playable, then I just go play on with the provisional ball (if you can't afford to lose a few balls then maybe you should take up tennis).  

 

It would be more sensible to devote our efforts to training slow players in good pace of play etiquette rather than in making ourselves feel good by changing rules that won't have any effect on them anyway.

 
post #260 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

I don't like playing from knarly rough, downhill lies, or deep fairway bunkers either. Sadly, they're all part of the game. a2_wink.gif

Good point. Once the USGA/R&A allow drops from divots, my next quest
post #261 of 337
Will be to outlaw downhill lies, damn I hate them. ;)
post #262 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post


I highly recommend the book The Principles Behind the Rules of Golf by Richard Tufts. It explains in elegant detail exactly why stroke and distance is the appropriate penalty under various scenarios.

 

Oh, I'll get right around to that one, Captain USGA.  Right after I finish about 12-15,000 other books on my reading list. 

post #263 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by allin View Post

OB and water hazard shots you got what you deserved. Divots and bad lies are part of the game that is basically meant to be somewhat unfair. Thats what makes it more interesting than other sports. I do feel the penalty is unfair on lost balls. If you believe the ball OB a provisional works fine. On lost balls you usually think you know where it is but can't find it, tall rough. view impeded etc. Since you can lose a ball just off the fairway, especially with the trend to mounds and native grasses on many newer courses there has to be a better way. A one stroke penalty and placing the ball as close to the spot as agreed to by your opponent. After this rule change I would stricly enforce a five minute maximum search for lost balls. I think one of the most important things to consider for possible rule changes are rules that slow down the pace of play. Lost balls has to be close to the top.

If your opponent agrees to a spot then I would not charge a penalty stroke. This will speed up play.

post #264 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aguirre View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post


I highly recommend the book The Principles Behind the Rules of Golf by Richard Tufts. It explains in elegant detail exactly why stroke and distance is the appropriate penalty under various scenarios.

 

Oh, I'll get right around to that one, Captain USGA.  Right after I finish about 12-15,000 other books on my reading list. 

Think of it this way, a thorough reading of Tufts might well lessen the number and frequency of one's uninformed posts in a golf Rules folder. Then again, one might just decide to argue with Tufts, too.

post #265 of 337
I have the most radical idea that will NEVER be considered. It would lower scores and speed up play. But golf is tradition and this is WAY outside of the box.

You can all tell me what's wrong with the idea, but I've likely considered it.

The idea: if you breach any rule that results in a penalty and a subsequent drop, instead of dropping you may place the ball anywhere on the golf course, not in a hazard, no closer to the hole.

I understand this is a great relief in many cases. Out of the trees, no longer over the water or bunker, out of the rocks, etc. So what? You were penalized a stroke or two.
But play continues, no silly dropping, no figuring out if the relief from a UL now means a drop and then relief from a cart path. No more need for endless minutes on confusing rulings. Let's keep playing.
post #266 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by hometeamdawg View Post

I have the most radical idea that will NEVER be considered. It would lower scores and speed up play. But golf is tradition and this is WAY outside of the box.

You can all tell me what's wrong with the idea, but I've likely considered it.

The idea: if you breach any rule that results in a penalty and a subsequent drop, instead of dropping you may place the ball anywhere on the golf course, not in a hazard, no closer to the hole.

I understand this is a great relief in many cases. Out of the trees, no longer over the water or bunker, out of the rocks, etc. So what? You were penalized a stroke or two.
But play continues, no silly dropping, no figuring out if the relief from a UL now means a drop and then relief from a cart path. No more need for endless minutes on confusing rulings. Let's keep playing.

 

I'm not even sure that this should be dignified with an answer.  You can call it radical, I call it a bit more than that. 

post #267 of 337

I have no problems with people who think it's crazy.

 

However, I also think that Tiger at 15 at Augusta last year was stupid.  And was it the Solheim cup where it took them about half-an-hour to decide where to play from after a ball went in a hazard?

 

But 15" cups and Play It Forward From 4800 yards are ideas to contemplate....right.

post #268 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by hometeamdawg View Post

The idea: if you breach any rule that results in a penalty and a subsequent drop, instead of dropping you may place the ball anywhere on the golf course, not in a hazard, no closer to the hole.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

I'm not even sure that this should be dignified with an answer.  You can call it radical, I call it a bit more than that.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hometeamdawg View Post
 

I have no problems with people who think it's crazy.

 

However, I also think that Tiger at 15 at Augusta last year was stupid.  And was it the Solheim cup where it took them about half-an-hour to decide where to play from after a ball went in a hazard?

 

But 15" cups and Play It Forward From 4800 yards are ideas to contemplate....

While I agree that it is pretty radical, I think you have a point here.  But consider that those ideas are not really being pitched as permanent rule changes, but rather as gateway ideas to get more people interested in taking up the game and growing the game.

 

So if you are making your proposal as an idea to help grow the game - perhaps it could be implemented in conjunction with 15" holes or Play It Forward - then I think it has merit.

 

Otherwise ... I doubt you'll get a lot of traction.  :beer:

post #269 of 337

Point taken.  But the thread is "If you could change a rule..." And 99+% of the ideas here will also never be implemented.

 

By the way, there have been several prominent names in golf who have positively spoken on the idea of eliminating the drop procedure, and that would be a wonderful start.  If you're taking a penalty, just place the ball and get on with it.  It's not like placing the ball never happens, there are already certain instances where you place the ball.  Why not after any penalty.

post #270 of 337

I agree with golfingdad 

 

@hometeamdawg back in my day would say "wave your freak flag high!"  If playing that way is acceptable to you and your foursome playing golf, and it adds enjoyment to your game ... then go for it!  As long as you are out for weekend "hack it up" and you keep the pace of play good for you. 

 

I like hearing different ideas or thoughts ... some folks are too wrapped around the rules axle to see other options, especially for recreational golfers.  Lots of major sports have recreational rules ... softball, and basketball come to mind quickly ... these rules allow more people to enjoy the sport, and even develop their skills. 

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