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Pace Problem - Page 2

post #19 of 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by wils5150 View Post
 


as good as that sounds the reality is the course would have the reputation of a douche bag and people would not come play. Public courses make money by putting players on the course. most run tee times close together and leave little or no margin for a slow group.

 

It's not even zero tolerance though, they're getting a couple warnings first.

 

I've spotted at least one course review on golfnow for a course in my area where the reviewer said a ranger was riding their ass all day.  It didn't scare me off at all, the first thing I thought was 1.) this guy is a slow player, and 2.) I want to play at this course!

post #20 of 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strandly View Post
 

 

It's not even zero tolerance though, they're getting a couple warnings first.

 

I've spotted at least one course review on golfnow for a course in my area where the reviewer said a ranger was riding their ass all day.  It didn't scare me off at all, the first thing I thought was 1.) this guy is a slow player, and 2.) I want to play at this course!


i hear what you are saying but its still a balancing act for the proshop/rangers

post #21 of 290

Where i play,  the 'course' is not 18 holes.  Players 'rent' the space for 4 hrs and 23 minutes. Because of suffocating demands by the population on the course,,every day,  and the need to produce each players local ID, the management can effectively ban any player, usually for a month, if the player misbehaves the entreaties of the marshals.  It's a dreadful monopoly but we have no choice. Obey and play to the clock or get out.  Unless there is no competition in the OP's neighborhood this program may not work for him. 

Really, only punishment for the bad boys will work. NO MORE GOLF.(here)

post #22 of 290

Good luck. Where I work the course policy (by the owner's choice) is all idiots are asked to leave and not come back.

 

Biggest problem at the course is a lack of play because all idiots are banned and sometimes their non-idiot friends quit playing there as well in sympathy.

post #23 of 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS256 View Post
 

Good luck. Where I work the course policy (by the owner's choice) is all idiots are asked to leave and not come back.

 

Biggest problem at the course is a lack of play because all idiots are banned and sometimes their non-idiot friends quit playing there as well in sympathy.

I can see how that happens. bottom line is we (course staff) must tread lightly. We all need golfers to sustain our course empty course = no money. and that creates another set of problems.

post #24 of 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by joekelly View Post
 

Where i play,  the 'course' is not 18 holes.  Players 'rent' the space for 4 hrs and 23 minutes. Because of suffocating demands by the population on the course,,every day,  and the need to produce each players local ID, the management can effectively ban any player, usually for a month, if the player misbehaves the entreaties of the marshals.  It's a dreadful monopoly but we have no choice. Obey and play to the clock or get out.  Unless there is no competition in the OP's neighborhood this program may not work for him. 

Really, only punishment for the bad boys will work. NO MORE GOLF.(here)

 

Interesting. What course is this? Interested in seeing what if any Google/Yelp/Other comments on it.

post #25 of 290

The original posters was looking for ideas, once a slow group has been identified a more direct, zero tolerance approach needs to take place.

 

insist the group play:

 

with a 2.5 foot gimmie rule.

 

with mark my ball once rule on the green.

 

allow for preferred lie everywhere.

 

without "honors". ready golf including the following tee shot.

 

 

Sounds has though some course changes have been done, rough has been cut etc. other suggestions  on known busy days, easy tee boxes and easy pins, throughout the course. If you have a restaurant  can signs be put up on the 8th or 9th tee  with a simple light menu and the bar/restaurant telephone number. The menu could also be displayed in the cart.

 

I  am always amazed clubs do not do this

post #26 of 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfisher View Post
 

The original posters was looking for ideas, once a slow group has been identified a more direct, zero tolerance approach needs to take place.

 

insist the group play:

 

with a 2.5 foot gimmie rule.

 

with mark my ball once rule on the green.

 

allow for preferred lie everywhere.

 

without "honors". ready golf including the following tee shot.

 

 

Sounds has though some course changes have been done, rough has been cut etc. other suggestions  on known busy days, easy tee boxes and easy pins, throughout the course. If you have a restaurant  can signs be put up on the 8th or 9th tee  with a simple light menu and the bar/restaurant telephone number. The menu could also be displayed in the cart.

 

I  am always amazed clubs do not do this

 

So, refuse to allow golfers to play golf on the golf course......

 

You're right, that will speed up play, but only because there won't be many golfers frequenting that particular course!

post #27 of 290

we try to hurry them along and have made people skip a hole. But really they are paying like everyone else so you are limited to what you can do.

post #28 of 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfisher View Post
 

The original posters was looking for ideas, once a slow group has been identified a more direct, zero tolerance approach needs to take place.

 

insist the group play:

 

with a 2.5 foot gimmie rule.

 

with mark my ball once rule on the green.

 

allow for preferred lie everywhere.

 

without "honors". ready golf including the following tee shot.

 

 

Sounds has though some course changes have been done, rough has been cut etc. other suggestions  on known busy days, easy tee boxes and easy pins, throughout the course. If you have a restaurant  can signs be put up on the 8th or 9th tee  with a simple light menu and the bar/restaurant telephone number. The menu could also be displayed in the cart.

 

I  am always amazed clubs do not do this

 

Those things do no more than make an insignificant difference in pace of play.  And they are nonsensical suggestions because you are assuming the the only cause of slow play is poor golfers, which is an uninformed and prejudicial opinion.  There are plenty of single digit players who suck at keeping pace.  Your suggestions will be useless for them.  You need a policy which is all encompassing, and what that means is that players need to be ready to play when it's time to play, and to then play promptly as soon as they do have the opportunity.  

 

Pace rules for casual stroke play:

 

1) No waiting to determine who is away or who has the honor.  Play if you are ready.  

2) No 5 minute searches for errant balls unless already waiting on the group in front.  Play a provisional ball when you see your shot heading astray.

3) No standing around picking your nose and scratching your butt when the way is clear in front of you.  Hit the ball!! 

4) Get directly to your ball, get ready to play, then play, as long as that action doesn't interfere with another player in playing his stroke.

5) Know where you should be on the course at any given time.  If you are averaging more than 14 minutes per hole, then you are usually going to be off pace.  More than 15 minutes and you are definitely off pace.  15 minutes is easy to keep track of - that is 4 holes per hour.  If you can't track that then you need remedial help with math.  14 minute pace is 4 holes in 56 minutes - still pretty easy.  Be aware of it and keep track.  

6) If something does cause you to fall behind, be the driving force in your group and push your companions to make a real effort to catch up.  

 

All this means is get out on the course and just play golf.  It's not a coffee klatch or a beer bust.  It's not the time to put a wax job on your driver.  If you like to clean clubs after a shot, do so while traveling, or when waiting on your playing companions to play, not while the next group back is waiting on you.  Same thing is true if you have to put a ID mark on your ball.  In the heat of battle it doesn't need to be an artistic masterwork.

 

Mostly just be aware.  See what is happening around you and know when it's time to play.

post #29 of 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfisher View Post
 

 

 If you have a restaurant  can signs be put up on the 8th or 9th tee  with a simple light menu and the bar/restaurant telephone number. The menu could also be displayed in the cart.

 

I  am always amazed clubs do not do this

This is actually one of my pet peeves. I don't understand why people need to stop after 9 holes to eat something. It's only been 2 hours or so, and another 2 or so to finish. Eat before you start and when you finish. Grab and drink, take a piss, no big deal. Order food and stop to eat it, lose your place.

 

Clogging up at the turn really irritates me. I think courses should have signs that say "If you are out of line for X minutes, you lose your place". To me, that would mean wait until a starter places you in a gap large enough to accomodate you, not just slide in as soon as you are ready and hold up others.

post #30 of 290

I think the type of facility we are talking about has a lot to do with what can and cannot be said by the starter to each group before their round starts.  If you are a course that gets a tremendous amount of tourist play (for example most of the courses in Myrtle Beach area), I always like when the starter tells us about the course, where the bathrooms are, where we can find water, and he emphasizes the pace of play.  Now, if you are a course that relies mostly on local play, all that rhetoric about the course may not be necessary.  The starter can always ask, "Have you played here before?".  If the answer is yes, then just remind the group what the pace of play is and please keep up with the group ahead of you.

Also, if the course has marshalls/player's assistants/ambassadors or whatever you want to call them, they need to do their job but they need to do it in a pleasant manner and not be advesarial immediately from the start.

On a recent trip out of town, my group was playing a course for the first time.  We were waiting to tee off and there was a group of 8 ahead of us.  They had 2 tee times and when it was their time to hit, there was a bunch of confusion.  Apparently a guy from each 4some has disappeared (probably in the crapper).  The group of 3 ahead of them was already on the green and putting.  The starter told us to tee off if we were all there.  By the time we were off the tee box, the group on the green was long gone.  Admittedly, we were not the fastest in playing the first hole.  Couple of guys hit in the marsh next to the green and it took a couple more minutes than should have.  2nd and 3rd holes we were still 2 shots behind the group ahead.  Here comes the marshall and makes a beeline for me.  Before he says a word, I told him politely what had happened on the first tee.  He ignore the hell out of me, cut me off in mid-sentence and said you MUST catch up with the group ahead of you.  I said we will try but when we teed off they were leaving the first green.  3 holes later, here he comes again and told me we were going to have to catch up of skip a hole.  It got ugly from that point.  I called the pro shop told them to go talk to the starter and then contact their damn marshall via radio.  When we were done, I went in and said I needed to speak to someone in management.  We had a very long discussion.  He actually called the starter in.  He was very apologetic.  I told him, "Look, I appreciate your apology but your marshall, Mr xxxxxx, is an absolute ass and is going to hurt your business."  I appreciate the job they are supposed to do but he was rude immediately."  We got 4 free rounds that could be used for a year.  They will probably never be used..

Oh, and the round that day...we played in under 4 hours.  We never did catch the 3some.  We could keep them in sight but honestly, I am not going to play golf running to hit my shots without thinking.

post #31 of 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by wils5150 View Post


as good as that sounds the reality is the course would have the reputation of a douche bag and people would not come play. Public courses make money by putting players on the course. most run tee times close together and leave little or no margin for a slow group.

 



I disagree. How many players will actually admit to being slow? Not many, because most people think the slow players are someone else and not themselves because not many people will tell them to their face. Chances are that a course that is known to actively enforce slow play rules will be applauded by most and get a better reputation. There are plenty of courses I won't play because I know it'll be a 5hr round.
post #32 of 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robster 7 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wils5150 View Post
 


as good as that sounds the reality is the course would have the reputation of a douche bag and people would not come play. Public courses make money by putting players on the course. most run tee times close together and leave little or no margin for a slow group.

 



I disagree. How many players will actually admit to being slow? Not many, because most people think the slow players are someone else and not themselves because not many people will tell them to their face. Chances are that a course that is known to actively enforce slow play rules will be applauded by most and get a better reputation. There are plenty of courses I won't play because I know it'll be a 5hr round.

No disrespect to high handicappers but they are a big % of the slow players along . Yes I have seen my fair share of low handicap people play slow too. Robster I wouldn't expect a 3.7 index like yourself to play slow or like to play slow. Most public course have players that are new to the game and /or have high handicaps. I am a superintendent at a difficult public course and when we have 250 players on a Saturday or Sunday its going to be a bit slow. It sucks to say this but that's the way it is on a lot of public courses.

post #33 of 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by wils5150 View Post

No disrespect to high handicappers but they are a big % of the slow players along . Yes I have seen my fair share of low handicap people play slow too. Robster I wouldn't expect a 3.7 index like yourself to play slow or like to play slow. Most public course have players that are new to the game and /or have high handicaps. I am a superintendent at a difficult public course and when we have 250 players on a Saturday or Sunday its going to be a bit slow. It sucks to say this but that's the way it is on a lot of public courses.

No disrespect taken a1_smile.gif

One of the people I was playing with took way too long to make shots. He would set up just like a pro walk around every hole before making a putt. He did make two of them, but took 4 minutes. Doing so made the rest of us need to rush our shots to keep pace of play. He justified it by saying we needed to wait anyway a3_biggrin.gif.

My point is really, pace of play comes first. When you shoot 1-2 strokes over on every hole it does not justify screwing everyone else in your groups game, just to "look" like a pro.

What a terrible playing partner.
post #34 of 290

sadly as Robster pointed out most people wont admit to being slow. I don't know maybe I am bias because I am on a golf course everyday but people need to check there ego at the door too. I can't tell you how many times I have seen and read here about people resisting moving up to the next set tees because they hit it along way. Truth be told some do hit it a long way but have a high handicap  and end up shooting a million.

post #35 of 290

I would seek out and pay a premium for a good course that could guarantee me a 3.5 hr round. Kind of like a 3.5hr round or your round is half price or something. Now that I have a family, 4-5 hrs rounds don't work. I think a strict pace of play policy could accomplish that rather easily.

 

Maybe we could do a poll to see how many people would pay a premium for something like this. I pay about $30-40 per round and I'd be willing to pay $40-50 if I were guaranteed 3.5hrs or less. That's about a 30% premium, so a course could turn every 4-some in to a 3-some and spend a little less on maintenance as well. I suppose they'd lose on food/drink though.

post #36 of 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by wils5150 View Post

No disrespect to high handicappers but they are a big % of the slow players along . Yes I have seen my fair share of low handicap people play slow too. Robster I wouldn't expect a 3.7 index like yourself to play slow or like to play slow. Most public course have players that are new to the game and /or have high handicaps. I am a superintendent at a difficult public course and when we have 250 players on a Saturday or Sunday its going to be a bit slow. It sucks to say this but that's the way it is on a lot of public courses.

Oh believe me Wils, some of the slowest players I know are good players. The difference is that their slow play is usually down to the slow routine that they have to complete start to finish even on two foot putts rather than the higher handicap that just takes a lot of shots. My personal favourite is the bloke who hits it 210 off the tee all day and then waits for the Par 5 green to clear just in case he hits his one in a lifetime shot from 250 with a 3 wood!

What it boils down to is that you won't know you're slow unless you are told. If someone I respected told me I was slow, I'd be mortified and would do something about it. I'm not though( for the record)a3_biggrin.gif
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