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Pace Problem - Page 16

post #271 of 290
Thread Starter 

Yesterday was one of those days that I came here looking for suggestions for.  If golfers could be doing something wrong, from slow play to driving where they were not supposed, to having inexperienced golfers on the course, to whatever, they were, and I heard about it!!!!

 

It occurred to me that all of us expect some golfers to do stuff they shouldn't be or not do stuff they should be because we all accept that there should be marshals/rangers on the course.

post #272 of 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartboy View Post
 

Yesterday was one of those days that I came here looking for suggestions for.  If golfers could be doing something wrong, from slow play to driving where they were not supposed, to having inexperienced golfers on the course, to whatever, they were, and I heard about it!!!!

 

It occurred to me that all of us expect some golfers to do stuff they shouldn't be or not do stuff they should be because we all accept that there should be marshals/rangers on the course.

 

The situation is really like this.  If you are a private or semi-private club where 90% to 100% of the play is by members, then you can institute a pace policy and be certain that everyone knows what is required, and usually count on them to police themselves and any visitors.  

 

When you are a course which works on a daily fee basis, regardless of whether it's a resort or public or municipal layout, you need to be more active in applying such a policy.  In such a situation, the course staff must commit to educating its clientele, and to enforcing the policy until the course develops a reputation for rigid adherence to its policy.  Putting a policy in place and then failing to enforce it is less than useless - it sends a message that it's okay to do what you want, regardless of the situation.  It's the old "Give them and inch and they'll take a mile" syndrome.  

 

You need to have a policy which is reasonable for the course.  Every player should be made aware of the requirements before he plays his first stroke.  That information must include the statement that the policy will be enforced.  You must have rangers or some sort of oversight in place, and they must be trained to deal with the situations which come up in a professional and reasoned manner.  Finally, the policy must be enforced to the letter.

 

Do all of this and you will eventually get a reputation as a course where a player can go and play and depend on a maximum of a 4:xx round.  Where the rangers and staff are friendly and professional, but no nonsense when it comes to pace of play.  There may be a reshuffling of your customer base as the laggards find other places to play and the real players seek you out, but in the long run it should end up as a better environment for everyone.

post #273 of 290
Thread Starter 

We have a situation where we are going to get slammed this year . . . we already have three times as many "event" rounds booked as last year.  Plus, we will be getting a lot of first-time-to-us golfers.

 

I've mentioned that our recommended pace is too low and that's the main thing I've been hearing this year, that golfers couldn't get around in that time, but they did get around in the time that was our recommended pace until it mysteriously changed a year ago.

 

Yesterday it would not have mattered what our recommended pace is, but, strangely, no one was unhappy except me.

 

Go figure.

post #274 of 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

 

Our policy states right up front that a group which has fallen behind will be approached by the player's assistant and will:

 

1) be asked to catch up to the required pace.  Failing that they will:

 

2) be asked to pick up and move directly to their proper place on the course.  If they refuse, or otherwise act in an uncooperative manner they will:

 

3) be removed from the course by the head pro, and if they show a threatening posture, the sheriff will be called in.  

 

It is necessary to develop a no tolerance attitude.  If that pisses off some players, then so be it, but more will applaud the policy than will denigrate it.  

Sorry to be late in this discussion but I play a course that has almost exactly this policy.   But they do refund your green fees if they remove you from play (no never happened to me I just have a buddy that works there).  It is a challenging course and also schedules for 4 1/2 hour rounds as does the OP's course.  

post #275 of 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghalfaire View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

 

Our policy states right up front that a group which has fallen behind will be approached by the player's assistant and will:

 

1) be asked to catch up to the required pace.  Failing that they will:

 

2) be asked to pick up and move directly to their proper place on the course.  If they refuse, or otherwise act in an uncooperative manner they will:

 

3) be removed from the course by the head pro, and if they show a threatening posture, the sheriff will be called in.  

 

It is necessary to develop a no tolerance attitude.  If that pisses off some players, then so be it, but more will applaud the policy than will denigrate it.  

Sorry to be late in this discussion but I play a course that has almost exactly this policy.   But they do refund your green fees if they remove you from play (no never happened to me I just have a buddy that works there).  It is a challenging course and also schedules for 4 1/2 hour rounds as does the OP's course.  

 

Yes. we had that policy of refunding the fees too.

post #276 of 290
Thread Starter 

Further evidence that slow play, and other golfer wrongdoings are due to unintentional clueless obliviousness (?).

 

One day last week I went in the Pro Shop and the course superintendent call me in to the GM's.  In front of the GM and Pro, he held up his cell phone and showed me a picture of a golfer driving their cart in the rough, and every-day, almost-every-group happening.  He picks me out because I've been there from the git-go and somehow it is me or my guy greeting and starting golfers that is responsible for everything every golfer does the next 3 to 6 hours.  We were not marshaling that day and marshaling is not one of my staff's responsibility.

 

My answer was pretty close to, "Yup."

 

Subsequently, the GM has instituted a brief "Course Rule" slip of paper that we are putting on the scorepad, on top of the scorecard, so they have to move it use the scorecard.  The greeter/starter is going over those instructions, using that notice.

 

It covers the pin place, what holes are cart path only, Pace Par, and not to drive in the rough.

 

From the clubhouse, even though one hole is fairly distant, we can see everything that goes on there.  Yesterday I was riding with the guy I was working with to the cartbarn and I stopped and said, "Look at that.  There on that hole was a cart in the woods, looking for their ball, or balls, whatever.

 

We decided to go out to remind them we drive only in the fairway cut, and on the way we met a guy I have known for years, who has been bringing groups to our area for a long time, and who five years ago called me over to the 18th green to tell me about the six-hour round they just played, which caused the marshal that day to go off on me for "messing with his course.".

 

As for the golfers driving in the woods, they forgot!

 

So, just sayin'.

 

:~( 

- - - - - -

FWIW, if you have not picked up on it, over the last five years, whether we marshaled fulltime or didn't marshal at all, whether we forecaddied and raked bunkers for slow groups or not, we have had a pace problem.  We have shortened our tees.  We have cleared the woods and made balls easier to find in the rough 

 

That's why I'm here, asking for suggestions about what to do with slow golfers, once we identify them..

post #277 of 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartboy View Post
 

That's why I'm here, asking for suggestions about what to do with slow golfers, once we identify them..

 

You've been given many answers to this, haven't you?

post #278 of 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartboy View Post

 

That's why I'm here, asking for suggestions about what to do with slow golfers, once we identify them..

I  thought you were mainly here to tell us your pedigree as a marshal, and that you are currently at the "must-play" course in whatever state you're in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

You've been given many answers to this, haven't you?

Isn't that the truth!

post #279 of 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

You've been given many answers to this, haven't you?


It appears CartBoy is using TST as a personnel Blog of Slow Play @ whatever course he may or may not work at.

 

Pretty funny stuff, if anyone has a "lighter side" of working as a attendant or marshal at a GC.

 

Probably becoming annoying to some.

 

Club Rat

post #280 of 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartboy View Post


That's why I'm here, asking for suggestions about what to do with slow golfers, once we identify them..

Really? After all this?

b3_huh.gif
post #281 of 290
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

You've been given many answers to this, haven't you?


I actually was going to summarize the actual suggestions as to what to do about slow golfers once you identify them, to sort that out for others who may be looking for the same type of information, so they would not have to sort through all the extraneous comments.

 

But, I can see I've worn out my welcome here.  :whistle:

 

That happens.

 

So, we'll just deal with it ourselves.

 

For those who made suggestions, thanks.

 

Y'all have a good one.

 

:beer:

post #282 of 290
Thread Starter 

For those who may find their way here looking for help with their own pace problem, ours is not as severe as in previous years.  It still is a problem with some groups, but the main thing that has helped is that the course superintendent is cutting the rough much lower now and his guys have thinned out a lot of the areas where errant shots land.  We have some areas that just beg for ball-hunting.

 

Previously, because of very long rough, it was hard to find a ball that had settled.

 

We have received more compliments on how great our course is from finishing golfers than ever before.

 

We have also added GPS.  We can "see" carts anywhere on the course now, so can "see" groups causing gaps. But, we can't rely on the ETs it shows, and not all "Green" carts are on pace. 

post #283 of 290

Like has already been said.Rough cannot be high or people will have trouble finding ball.A ball barely in the rough shouldn't be invisible that you cant find it rather quickly.4 1/2 hrs  is good time for 18.Thats 15 mins per hole.In my opinion it is badl tee shots that cause more slow play than anything else.Yardage markers help speed up play as well but unfortunately there are a lot more bad golfers than decent and they will play slower.Since ive become a better golfer I don't ever go back to courses I played as I was just starting because theres lot of hackers playing there now.It would be nice to know if slow play was a problem back before cell phones became an addiction.These days I see a lot of people texting or messing with phones while on golf course and that definitely slow people down.

post #284 of 290
Not sure if it's mentioned or effective. But maybe you could invest in more carts. Then when people sign up and are a 20+ handicap, you make them ride their own. I've noticed that a lot of slower people in carts come from either around te greens, or very ineffective ways of sharing carts.
post #285 of 290
teach people ready golf, I see a lot of times two people in cart a sitting next to cart b then when 1st player takes his shot they all drive to the next and repeat I think this is one of the biggest problems. everybody hanging around one players ball instead of looking for theirs are getting ready for their shot.

I was behind a group Sunday that went to first ball hit went to second ball hit then drove over to the creek where player 3 ball must have been the all get out and start looking for the lost ball, while it think player 4 could have dropped player 3 off to start looking for his ball while player 1 and 2 where taking their shots, player 3 was in no danger of being hit by anyone in the group.

my fore some rides, we go to first ball measur the shot player takes a club or two then I drive to my ball, measure shot , grab club and wait for my turn. the other 2 in do the same.

we also have what we call a PGA rule to help pace. if you can't find your ball in the long rough we allow a free drop, if you can't find your ball near a ob then your taking a penalty but we will allow the drop to be taken in the fairway but line of sight of the ob kind of like going back to the tee but modified we call it a pga because on tour their is someone more likely to find your ball before you get to it.

also a lot of people need to accept the fact that their ball is gone I see golfers hunting for their balls in places I wouldnt enter with a chain saw. then they come out with a arm full of balls and still hunt for their next lost ball on the next hole.

walk fast swing slow.

Tom
post #286 of 290

@Cartboy - why were you not allowing carts to drive in the rough?

post #287 of 290
Thread Starter 


Holes 1 through 18.  ;-)

 

The course is  not important.

 

Speaking for our Superintendent, we are a relatively new course and our fescue rough stresses easily.  He has been trying since the course opened to get it to fill in solid.  On almost all the holes the cart path is not at the same level as the fairways, so carts going back and forth, up and down, through the rough, would do even more damage.  We also don't want carts going off into the woods (which they still do).  We have places to enter and exit the fairway.

 

Our zoysia fairways are not as easily affected by carts.

 

But, yes, I understand what is behind your question, and I understand that if you hit a ball somewhere other than the fairway, there is a natural instinct to drive to it, wherever it is.  I play with members who play almost every day, who know we don't drive in the rough, and they still do.

 

We have one hole, a downhill Par 5, which is very visible from the Clubhouse.  We see carts in the rough on it almost every time we look that way. 

 

Golfers drive in our rough every day, and have every day the course is open, the same as some golfers drive on the fairways when it is cart path only.  The Super has finally gotten to the point where he does not blame that on the starter.

post #288 of 290

Played behind a twosome a couple days ago that was slow as hell.  Normally I don't get too bent out of shape over moving slowly because I usually play by myself and everything seems slow like that, or the course is full of foursomes and nobody is going anywhere anytime soon anyway.  But these people... they weren't good, had nobody in front of them, and played like they had the rest of their lives to finish the round.  It was really irritating and I see what people mean by slow play killing the game.

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