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Pace Problem - Page 4

post #55 of 281
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfisher View Post
 

The original posters was looking for ideas, once a slow group has been identified a more direct, zero tolerance approach needs to take place.

 

insist the group play:

 

with a 2.5 foot gimmie rule.

 

with mark my ball once rule on the green.

 

allow for preferred lie everywhere.

 

without "honors". ready golf including the following tee shot.

 

 

Sounds has though some course changes have been done, rough has been cut etc. other suggestions  on known busy days, easy tee boxes and easy pins, throughout the course. If you have a restaurant  can signs be put up on the 8th or 9th tee  with a simple light menu and the bar/restaurant telephone number. The menu could also be displayed in the cart.

 

I  am always amazed clubs do not do this

This is what I'm looking for now, suggestions we can give to slow groups to speed them up. I am consider printing up a list to hand out to slow groups at the first warning.  I already have some others in mind.

 

Then, suggestions as to what options we should consider for those groups who do not speed up, that the Pro or GM would communicate at the third warning.  I have some of those in mind, too.

 

When this is done, I will post all the reasonable suggestions for others with the same problem.

- - - - -

I appreciate that a sense of realism has been injected, that a course has to mediate with moderation, that a my way or the highway policy will likely turn the place back into overgrown fescue and rocks.

post #56 of 281
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

 

Those things do no more than make an insignificant difference in pace of play.  And they are nonsensical suggestions because you are assuming the the only cause of slow play is poor golfers, which is an uninformed and prejudicial opinion.  There are plenty of single digit players who suck at keeping pace.  Your suggestions will be useless for them.  You need a policy which is all encompassing, and what that means is that players need to be ready to play when it's time to play, and to then play promptly as soon as they do have the opportunity.

 

Pace rules for casual stroke play:

 

1) No waiting to determine who is away or who has the honor.  Play if you are ready.

2) No 5 minute searches for errant balls unless already waiting on the group in front.  Play a provisional ball when you see your shot heading astray.

3) No standing around picking your nose and scratching your butt when the way is clear in front of you.  Hit the ball!!

4) Get directly to your ball, get ready to play, then play, as long as that action doesn't interfere with another player in playing his stroke.

5) Know where you should be on the course at any given time.  If you are averaging more than 14 minutes per hole, then you are usually going to be off pace.  More than 15 minutes and you are definitely off pace.  15 minutes is easy to keep track of - that is 4 holes per hour.  If you can't track that then you need remedial help with math.  14 minute pace is 4 holes in 56 minutes - still pretty easy.  Be aware of it and keep track.

6) If something does cause you to fall behind, be the driving force in your group and push your companions to make a real effort to catch up.

 

All this means is get out on the course and just play golf.  It's not a coffee klatch or a beer bust.  It's not the time to put a wax job on your driver.  If you like to clean clubs after a shot, do so while traveling, or when waiting on your playing companions to play, not while the next group back is waiting on you.  Same thing is true if you have to put a ID mark on your ball.  In the heat of battle it doesn't need to be an artistic masterwork.

 

Mostly just be aware.  See what is happening around you and know when it's time to play.

Another good one.

 

&, yes, if anyone doesn't believe good golfers can play slow, go out behind them at one of your local important amateur tourneys. In my experience, they also tend to have more attitude and a sense of entitlement, that they can play however they want to play.

post #57 of 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by wils5150 View Post
 


Dave what is it about the hole locations you dislike?

They put the hole on top of a high crown or on a steep ridge near a collection area that makes it near impossible to land a ball near the hole. No exaggeration it's the front of a kidney shaped green in an area maybe 10 yards in diameter. It's only "flat" on the very highest point, a circle of maybe 5 feet on what looks like a giant cupcake.

post #58 of 281
Thread Starter 

There have been several comments along the line that some golfers are blissfully unaware when on the golf course.

 

I agree.  It seems like for some going to the first tee involves leaving all your common sense, reason and judgement at the clubhouse.  So, there they are driving on the fairways when it's cart path only, pulling up to greens, driving on Par 3 fairways because there was a maintenance opening in the curb, playing slow, hunting for balls in the woods, etc.

 

You cannot expect a slow group to know they're slow, or to speed up on their own.  By being slow they have already demonstrated they are not in touch with reality.  You have to be out there and notify them.

post #59 of 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post
 

They put the hole on top of a high crown or on a steep ridge near a collection area that makes it near impossible to land a ball near the hole. No exaggeration it's the front of a kidney shaped green in an area maybe 10 yards in diameter. It's only "flat" on the very highest point, a circle of maybe 5 feet on what looks like a giant cupcake.


wow.!  the reason I asked was to see if your greens are flat or have alot of slope in them.

post #60 of 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by wils5150 View Post
 


wow.!  the reason I asked was to see if your greens are flat or have alot of slope in them.

I don't mind a challenge but I am certain some of the placements disregard USGA requirements.

 

A pic to give you an idea. The high point is that area in the front of the green, that's usually where they cut the hole. The collection area is to the left. The lowest point is behind the flag in the diagram. I've never seen the hole cut on the right side behind the trap.

 


Edited by Dave2512 - 11/4/13 at 6:16pm
post #61 of 281
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfisher View Post
 

I read somewhere that if your course, private, semi or public has rangers and a pro/gm on site, and they allow rounds to take more than 4:15 on any given Saturday........

 

well they don't give a crap, period. Concern over Slow play is just lip service they tell people.

 

 

 

 

the weak shall inherit the earth

As of now, we have all that.  We've had all that for five years. It's amazing Golfweek rates us #1 in the State.

 

I'm here because I want to change all that, except for the #1 part.

post #62 of 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 

 

Disillusioned people have no idea that they are holding anyone up.

My father in law..:doh:

 

He feels he paid and because of this he has zero issue looking for 10 mins for his ball.

Takes his lazer out on each drive when he gets/finds his ball and keeps track marking down drive distance.

Drives by the bushes or lakes looking for lost balls.

Gets on his dam cell phone, this one just :censored: out of me!

 

Me and my son just move it, we even finish putting out and wait at the cart for him at times.

You can pick your friends not your family, I tell my wife when I get home about this. Her comment is you know how my dad is and walks away laughing.

 

But we try to keep it going the best we can and try to finish in 4.5 hours.

post #63 of 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfisher View Post



So, refuse to allow golfers to play golf on the golf course......where did this notion come from?

 My point was if they are slow and holding people up behind them, they need to speed it up, no one is refusing their right to play, but there are ways of speeding things up including shortening up play, like marking balls, not finishing out, waiting on the next tee for honors- bottom line is a lot of the miscellaneous BS on the green adds to the over all round when you multiply by 18 holes. That 2nd, 3rd, 4th shot because of a lousy almost impossible lie adds to it. Playing form the wrong tees it all ads up.

a 4:15 hour round VS a 5 hour round is 3 minutes per hole faster per foursome

Much of what you described is called "ready golf" the assumption is they already know about it and have continued to demonstrate slow play.

From you. When you insist that the players on the course play outside of the rules of golf......

Now, if you really mean to say recommend, we have a completely different situation. However, slow players seldom listen to recommendations.....
post #64 of 281
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post
 

I don't mind a challenge but I am certain some of the placements disregard USGA requirements.

 

What are the USGA requirements for pin placemen?  Specifically, I need to know if there is a requirement for an area of flat surface around it.

post #65 of 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartboy View Post
 

What are the USGA requirements for pin placemen?  Specifically, I need to know if there is a requirement for an area of flat surface around it.

http://www.usga.org/rulesfaq/rules_answer.asp?FAQidx=143&Rule=16 More recommendations than rules. They specifically say there are no rules before putting in their .02.

post #66 of 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by hacker101 View Post
 

My father in law..:doh:

 

He feels he paid and because of this he has zero issue looking for 10 mins for his ball.

Takes his lazer out on each drive when he gets/finds his ball and keeps track marking down drive distance.

Drives by the bushes or lakes looking for lost balls.

Gets on his dam cell phone, this one just :censored: out of me!

 

Me and my son just move it, we even finish putting out and wait at the cart for him at times.

You can pick your friends not your family, I tell my wife when I get home about this. Her comment is you know how my dad is and walks away laughing.

 

But we try to keep it going the best we can and try to finish in 4.5 hours.

 

That's nothing compared to one of my playing partners this last weekend.

How about 2 hours for 5 holes? And we knew exactly where every shot landed.

post #67 of 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartboy View Post
 

There have been several comments along the line that some golfers are blissfully unaware when on the golf course.

 

I agree.  It seems like for some going to the first tee involves leaving all your common sense, reason and judgement at the clubhouse.  So, there they are driving on the fairways when it's cart path only, pulling up to greens, driving on Par 3 fairways because there was a maintenance opening in the curb, playing slow, hunting for balls in the woods, etc.

 

You cannot expect a slow group to know they're slow, or to speed up on their own.  By being slow they have already demonstrated they are not in touch with reality.  You have to be out there and notify them.

 

It's for those blissfully unaware players that the course needs to have both the policy and suggestions for following it posted prominently, and have their attention called to it at some time during the check-in process.  You can't assume that they will figure it out for themselves.

post #68 of 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartboy View Post
 

What are the USGA requirements for pin placemen?  Specifically, I need to know if there is a requirement for an area of flat surface around it.


none.  anywhere on the green is legal. those USGA suggestions are geared for tournament play. it would be impossible to set up a course like that for everyday play. We must remember the faster the greens are the more pin placements become unusable. think of it this way greens built in the 20's and 30's were built for green speeds around 5 on a good day. maintaining them today at a speed of 10 or 11 eliminates pin positions.

post #69 of 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 

 

That's nothing compared to one of my playing partners this last weekend.

How about 2 hours for 5 holes? And we knew exactly where every shot landed.

We had a 6 hour round Sat, due to the group in front, husband was giving lesions to his wife. I see him walk to her ball with her, show her how to hit the ball, depending on if it went farther then his he would walk to his ball. If not walk with her to hit it again. I kid you note we had 5 groups lined up behind at some point, dont care care what my father in law does could not have slowed it any more then it was!

 

Can you say torture!

post #70 of 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by hacker101 View Post
 

We had a 6 hour round Sat, due to the group in front, husband was giving lesions to his wife. I see him walk to her ball with her, show her how to hit the ball, depending on if it went farther then his he would walk to his ball. If not walk with her to hit it again. I kid you note we had 5 groups lined up behind at some point, dont care care what my father in law does could not have slowed it any more then it was!

 

Can you say torture!

 

Ouch, sounds bad. What course was this so I can avoid it.

post #71 of 281
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 

 

Ouch, sounds bad. What course was this so I can avoid it.

Meadowlark in HB, no Marchall other then when we teed off, that told us we could not drive on the fairways due to seeding.

Course is fun to play, but Sat they are always over booked and running late. So if you play it do it on a week day I hear it is wide open.

post #72 of 281
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wils5150 View Post
 


none.  anywhere on the green is legal. those USGA suggestions are geared for tournament play. it would be impossible to set up a course like that for everyday play. We must remember the faster the greens are the more pin placements become unusable. think of it this way greens built in the 20's and 30's were built for green speeds around 5 on a good day. maintaining them today at a speed of 10 or 11 eliminates pin positions.

Thanks.

 

We have five pin placements that rotate each day.  On the first green, one of them is always on a slope where the b all cannot stop at the hole.  I cannot get the Superintendent or GM to consider not putting it there.

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