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What if Laser/GPS were banned? - Page 2

post #19 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robster 7 View Post

It would certainly slow up play which is something that nobody wants. I occassionally forget my Sky Caddie and it is strange but I don't think it impacts my score too much, maybe a shot at most. For me, it's been the best innovation since I started playing golf with custom fitting second.

for some it would slow up play for others it would speed it up. I don't use or need one A 100,150 200 yard post and some sprinkler markings are more than enough for me.

post #20 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post

Would you anchor it?


Good one! a3_biggrin.gif
post #21 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by wils5150 View Post

for some it would slow up play for others it would speed it up. I don't use or need one A 100,150 200 yard post and some sprinkler markings are more than enough for me.

 



Are you just being resistant to change or do you honestly believe you wouldnt benefit from an exact yardage? If you have a playing partner that uses GPS and you slice one wide into the rough where its difficult to judge distance, would you ask for his help with the number?
My guess is that, playing off 8, you would benefit from knowing the number because you probably know the yardage you hit each club. Why guesstimate when you don't have to?
post #22 of 58

Like many responders, I spent many years estimating yardages from the 150 mark and other measured locations so it would not be too hard to cope.

post #23 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by wils5150 View Post
 

What would you guys do if lasers and GPS devices were banned? Would you still be able to play as well or would you be lost?

 

Well, since I was able to play for 30 years before we had such things, I guess I could manage to do it again.  They are a convenience, not a necessity.  I would not feel inconvenienced by such a prohibition.  It wouldn't bother me if they rolled back the ball, or reduced the size of the driver either.  I enjoy golf for its own sake - I love figuring out my way around the course regardless of the tools I'm allowed to use, and that won't change.  

 

Unlike so many players, I'm not hung up on equipment.  I love trying new things, and I'll play with any sort of sticks I can get my hands on, and play as best I can.  I played at a course in northern Wisconsin one time just on a whim as we were driving around on vacation, so I had to use a rental "set" they had available.  It looked more like a bag of clubs for sale at a thrift store - I think that there were only 2 clubs in bag of the same brand.  The "set" actually included two 7 irons.  I still managed to have a good time there in spite of the shortcomings.  I like playing with "short" sets of 5-7 clubs too.  I just like playing golf, however it comes about.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robster 7 View Post

It would certainly slow up play which is something that nobody wants. I occassionally forget my Sky Caddie and it is strange but I don't think it impacts my score too much, maybe a shot at most. For me, it's been the best innovation since I started playing golf with custom fitting second.
 
Not really.  Play was faster in the early 90's at my home course than it is now.  It was just as busy, but tended to play about 15 minutes faster on average.  So your theory is not true.  Slow play is a mindset, not normally equipment related. 
post #24 of 58

It wouldn't be that terrible. But I do think it would slow down play.  It is simply faster to look at the GPS or shoot the laser than to search for markers and pace off distances.  And if knowing the accurate distance helped you to maybe hit the green instead of not quite getting it over the bunker - then you have also saved the time of hitting the extra shot(s), raking the bunker, etc.

 

I don't know why they would be banned.  And I don't know why they aren't used on tour.  If golf were played without markers and it was against the rules to step off distances and create yardage books, etc. - then I'd feel different.  It would make judgement part of the game.  A skill on its own.  But it isn't.  Banning range finders is essentially saying - you can get all the distances you want to whatever you want - you just can't do it the quick and easy way.

post #25 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robster 7 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wils5150 View Post
 

for some it would slow up play for others it would speed it up. I don't use or need one A 100,150 200 yard post and some sprinkler markings are more than enough for me.

 



Are you just being resistant to change or do you honestly believe you wouldnt benefit from an exact yardage? If you have a playing partner that uses GPS and you slice one wide into the rough where its difficult to judge distance, would you ask for his help with the number?
My guess is that, playing off 8, you would benefit from knowing the number because you probably know the yardage you hit each club. Why guesstimate when you don't have to?

I guess for that wayward shot it might be nice. The few times I have played with people that give me yardage it screwed me up with club selection. I am much better off when I get to my ball  check out my lie, wind and pin location. I then pull the club my mind tells me too and hit it.I have been doing this all my life and it's very very rare I miss club a shot. The few times people have given me yardage it but doubt in my mind. For example. I have a 9 iron in my hand the guys tells me his gps yardage  and I am like should I hit 8 or 9? I am much better going with my first instinct.

post #26 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by wils5150 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robster 7 View Post

It would certainly slow up play which is something that nobody wants. I occassionally forget my Sky Caddie and it is strange but I don't think it impacts my score too much, maybe a shot at most. For me, it's been the best innovation since I started playing golf with custom fitting second.

for some it would slow up play for others it would speed it up. I don't use or need one A 100,150 200 yard post and some sprinkler markings are more than enough for me.

 

This is the reality of it.  Those who have never played seriously without one might feel lost for a little while, but I've never needed more than those three little markers to get a good estimate on my distance.  With a bit of practice, it really isn't that hard to break down the 50 yard divisions between the markers into 10 yard increments.  That is all the accuracy the typical amateur golfer needs.  I never paced off from the marker unless it was already on the line I was taking to walk to my ball, yet my estimate was never more than a couple of yards off from the guys who paced.  I played the best golf in my life in the late 80's and early 90's, bringing my handicap down to 9.6 without a GPS or laser, so I think I could figure it out again.  If I can do it, I don't know why anyone else couldn't if they were to actually make the effort.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meltdwhiskey View Post
 

It wouldn't be that terrible. But I do think it would slow down play.  It is simply faster to look at the GPS or shoot the laser than to search for markers and pace off distances.  And if knowing the accurate distance helped you to maybe hit the green instead of not quite getting it over the bunker - then you have also saved the time of hitting the extra shot(s), raking the bunker, etc.

 

 

 

The thing is that most players didn't search for markers and pace off distances.  Most just estimated from the visible markers set every 50 yards starting usually at 200 yards.  It wasn't until courses started the questionable practice of marking sprinklers that pacing really took hold and started to slow down the game.  On many courses sprinkler heads are hard to find, so first they have to search, then pace, and by then they have delayed the game.  

 

With nice easy to see markers set at 50 yard intervals, estimating is easy, and most players are just kidding themselves if they think that they need to be closer than 5 yards.

post #27 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by wils5150 View Post
 

for some it would slow up play for others it would speed it up. I don't use or need one A 100,150 200 yard post and some sprinkler markings are more than enough for me.

No way a GPS will slow down play. Takes me less than a second to look down at my GPS. Doesn't matter how fast you are you won't get a distance from a course marker any faster than that.

 

Range finders are a different story and some people are very good at quickly shooting a yardage and some people are not. Even the ones that aren't very good at it can get a distance faster than doing any pacing off.

 

I'm sure there are people that are like I used to be that gage the distance visually, and rarely even look at a yardage marker, but those people are severely handicapped on blind shots. Maybe you play courses where you always have a look at the green and maybe you always hit the ball dead straight. If that's the case congratulations, you are in a very small minority.

post #28 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS256 View Post
 

No way a GPS will slow down play. Takes me less than a second to look down at my GPS. Doesn't matter how fast you are you won't get a distance from a course marker any faster than that.

 

Range finders are a different story and some people are very good at quickly shooting a yardage and some people are not. Even the ones that aren't very good at it can get a distance faster than doing any pacing off.

 

I'm sure there are people that are like I used to be that gage the distance visually, and rarely even look at a yardage marker, but those people are severely handicapped on blind shots. Maybe you play courses where you always have a look at the green and maybe you always hit the ball dead straight. If that's the case congratulations, you are in a very small minority.

you are right about range finder vs gps. You work on a course how many times do you see some one shooting a yardage then go into there long preshot routine hit it 10 yards and do it all over again .And when you get right down to it 75% of golfers still don't take enough club.

post #29 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by wils5150 View Post
 

you are right about range finder vs gps. You work on a course how many times do you see some one shooting a yardage then go into there long preshot routine hit it 10 yards and do it all over again .And when you get right down to it 75% of golfers still don't take enough club.

I agree with all of that. I just don't attribute it to the range finder. The idiot factor would still be in play no matter what they were using.

 

I was very fast before I got a GPS and I'm still very fast now. The GPS just gives me a better chance at success on blind shots. No idea how many extra strokes that saves me in a typical round but I'm sure it's at least a few.

 

I admit it's slightly annoying to me when somebody in my group is having trouble shooting the pins with a range finder.

post #30 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS256 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wils5150 View Post
 

you are right about range finder vs gps. You work on a course how many times do you see some one shooting a yardage then go into there long preshot routine hit it 10 yards and do it all over again .And when you get right down to it 75% of golfers still don't take enough club.

I agree with all of that. I just don't attribute it to the range finder. The idiot factor would still be in play no matter what they were using.

 

I was very fast before I got a GPS and I'm still very fast now. The GPS just gives me a better chance at success on blind shots. No idea how many extra strokes that saves me in a typical round but I'm sure it's at least a few.

 

I admit it's slightly annoying to me when somebody in my group is having trouble shooting the pins with a range finder.

 

More or less agree.  Pace of play is a mindset, and a fast player will still be fast with or without a device, while a slow player will still be slow.  You have to retrain the brain, not change the equipment allowed.

post #31 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meltdwhiskey View Post
 

It wouldn't be that terrible. But I do think it would slow down play.  It is simply faster to look at the GPS or shoot the laser than to search for markers and pace off distances.  And if knowing the accurate distance helped you to maybe hit the green instead of not quite getting it over the bunker - then you have also saved the time of hitting the extra shot(s), raking the bunker, etc.

The thing is that most players didn't search for markers and pace off distances.  Most just estimated from the visible markers set every 50 yards starting usually at 200 yards.  It wasn't until courses started the questionable practice of marking sprinklers that pacing really took hold and started to slow down the game.  On many courses sprinkler heads are hard to find, so first they have to search, then pace, and by then they have delayed the game.  

 

With nice easy to see markers set at 50 yard intervals, estimating is easy, and most players are just kidding themselves if they think that they need to be closer than 5 yards.

 

I can see that.  I played golf for a couple of years in the early 90's and I don't remember there being as much of a premium on distance.  But then again, we were just college kids and looking back, we were really bad a golf.  I'm not sure knowing the distance would have helped much.

 

But then I didn't play again for 15 years and when I returned, there did seem to be a premium on distance.  And not just to the center of the green as the markers would give you - but the exact distance to the pin!  For a lot of us, I don't think this is completely necessary.  

 

But regardless of where the pin is or how far the middle is, I really like knowing what it takes to stay away from trouble.  If a bunker is guarding the front of the green - and I'm off by 1 club because I estimated poorly or I was at a different angle than the marker, I can be in that bunker.  Also, some holes have turns in them where you want to hit toward the woods and get as close to the trees as you can, but not in them.  Or creek/pond forced carries or creek/pond layups, etc.  There are no distances to these things.

 

I'd guess it takes me 10 seconds to grab the laser and get a distance to anything I want.  And in some cases it can save me from hitting into woods and bunkers - which will save more than the 10 seconds.  And even if it didn't, you hear guys 'talking out' a distance to things. One guy is proposing 7i, another is proposing it is 160, another guys says that 160 is his 7i, another thinks it is more like 140 based on the marker he thinks is over there.  When this starts, I usually just shoot it and it puts these conversations to bed.

 

Also, I only use it here and there.  I'm guessing some guys are using it nearly every shot?  Even if I used it on every approach shot at 10 seconds per, that's 3 minutes/round.  So if it never saved a single second, it only cost 3 minutes.  But if it saves any shots or cuts down on ball hunting or raking - it will save time in the round.

 

Having said all that, I do like using my laser.  And I think it is illogical to ban them.  But if they did, it wouldn't be a big deal to me.

post #32 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by wils5150 View Post

I guess for that wayward shot it might be nice. The few times I have played with people that give me yardage it screwed me up with club selection. I am much better off when I get to my ball  check out my lie, wind and pin location. I then pull the club my mind tells me too and hit it.I have been doing this all my life and it's very very rare I miss club a shot. The few times people have given me yardage it but doubt in my mind. For example. I have a 9 iron in my hand the guys tells me his gps yardage  and I am like should I hit 8 or 9? I am much better going with my first instinct.

 



I'd rather go on facts than instinct. Maybe try one for a few rounds and see what difference it makes?
post #33 of 58

If they were banned it would make the game far more difficult for me and less fun.

As mentioned in another thread I don't have binocular vision which lessens my ability to estimate distances and the further away something is the more difficult it becomes. Before I had a laser I'd hunt around for markers to use as an estimate and that's perfectly fine if the markers are correct and if they're easy to spot to pace off from but if not the game at a distance becomes more of an exercise in frustration management than a "game" for me.

"Looks like it's about 180"

*hits the ball out the back by 30 yards*

:censored:

post #34 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

With nice easy to see markers set at 50 yard intervals, estimating is easy, and most players are just kidding themselves if they think that they need to be closer than 5 yards.

 

this ^^  (and I have lousy depth perception - I'd scan my putts if no one was looking)

(I find it hilarious that laser vendors are making a big deal "NOW, accurate to within 3 inches!!!")

 

However, golf is intended to be a game of precision.  Having that laser seems clearly in the "Spirit" of the game :loco:

Also, pin position pushes that distance around a lot too - more than 5 yards for sure

(However, putting together a good course book was also a true competitive edge and part of preparation and justified having really good caddies - also in that goofy thing called "spirit of the game" - so I don't much care about meeting some arbitrary definition of 'spirit')

 

It's also great to be able to zap the distances to bunkers, edge of green, that rock near the dogleg, etc etc etc.  You don't get that with a 150 yard post unless you have a nice course book.  I've stood right next to the 150 and zapped distance +/- 20 yards to the flag.

 

but without it, I'd still get along - I've had my batteries run out and had very decent rounds anyway.

 

I have more fun knowing the yardages and trying to pull off the shot.  It's better than pulling off the shot and still hoping I guessed right choosing to attempt that shot in the first place.

post #35 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robster 7 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wils5150 View Post
 

I guess for that wayward shot it might be nice. The few times I have played with people that give me yardage it screwed me up with club selection. I am much better off when I get to my ball  check out my lie, wind and pin location. I then pull the club my mind tells me too and hit it.I have been doing this all my life and it's very very rare I miss club a shot. The few times people have given me yardage it but doubt in my mind. For example. I have a 9 iron in my hand the guys tells me his gps yardage  and I am like should I hit 8 or 9? I am much better going with my first instinct.

 



I'd rather go on facts than instinct. Maybe try one for a few rounds and see what difference it makes?

Not saying for everyone but for me instinct works better. I have tried them before but. I didn't like it

post #36 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by wils5150 View Post

Not saying for everyone but for me instinct works better. I have tried them before but. I didn't like it

 



Yeah ok, well at least you've tried! I think if you play the same course predominatly rather than going to other places, it probably doesn't make as much difference. I play a lot of county events in the summer where sometimes I haven't seen the course before and it definitely makes a difference then. Each to their own though. It wouldn't do for us all to be the same!
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