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November 22, 1963

post #1 of 68
Thread Starter 

50 years.

 

 

 

 

 

I was in the 3rd grade, and remember the teachers as visibly upset when they announced the President was dead. They let us out for recess, probably so the teachers could mourn and our parents could pick us up early from school. We were too young to recognize the sheer solemnity of the occasion until we arrived home, where we were hit by television and newspapers  filled with nothing but Kennedy coverage for over a week. I remember the wonder of the senselessness of it all.

 

___

 

 

Talks about Oswald, Ruby...

 


Edited by Mr. Desmond - 11/22/13 at 8:40am
post #2 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond View Post
 

We were too young to recognize the sheer solemnity of the occasion until we arrived home, where we were hit by television and newspapers  filled with nothing but Kennedy coverage for over a week. I remember the wonder of the senselessness of it all.

 

Can you imagine the coverage today? "Over a week" would probably barely contain the coverage of the event on the Food Network or something.

 

BTW, I'm firmly in the camp of "there's a lot we don't know about this" and that includes "Oswald was not the only shooter, and may not even have been a shooter."

 

And no, almost none of that opinion is based on the movie… which I've seen about 30 times (I wrote a paper on it my senior year).

post #3 of 68

I was three and a half, but I remember everyone was sad and the TV was on news all the time.  JFK had an office above my grandfathers bakery when he was running for senate.  I am not convinced about a conspiracy.  I think if there were more involved, they would have spilled there guts before passing or let it slip.  This is too big a secret to keep.  Then there is Occam's razor.

post #4 of 68
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post
 

I was three and a half, but I remember everyone was sad and the TV was on news all the time.  JFK had an office above my grandfathers bakery when he was running for senate.  I am not convinced about a conspiracy.  I think if there were more involved, they would have spilled there guts before passing or let it slip.  This is too big a secret to keep.  Then there is Occam's razor.

My family moved to Dallas a year after the assassination. He, umm, had a government job and replaced someone who was blamed by higher ups for a lack of security. I was too young to recognize the effect of the assassination on the city of Dallas. The city was governed by real estate developers and right wing businessmen. But as a kid, I had other things to do ... like watch the Cowboys at the Cotton Bowl.

 

I am more in the camp of "Oswald fired 3 times" than a conspiracy. I don't think a conspiracy can remain mum for 50 years. Based on experience, I think some tend to look for things that aren't there, to find a reason... when the reason is, we have a lot of sick people with serious mental issues - Oswald, a bit of a schizoid, wife-beater, whacko obsessed with the bolt on his gun ... with delusions of grandeur. Ruby ... owner of a sleazy cabaret club who knew police and had issues. Sometimes, the simple answers are the answers.

post #5 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond View Post
 

I am more in the camp of "Oswald fired 3 times" than a conspiracy. I don't think a conspiracy can remain mum for 50 years. Based on experience, I think some tend to look for things that aren't there, to find a reason... when the reason is, we have a lot of sick people with serious mental issues - Oswald, a bit of a schizoid, wife-beater, whacko obsessed with the bolt on his gun ... with delusions of grandeur. Ruby ... owner of a sleazy cabaret club who knew police and had issues. Sometimes, the simple answers are the answers.

You can pull off a conspiracy if you kill everyone that might cause the leak.  We've seen some questionable events happen in our history and after the event key people related to it end up dead with very little news coverage.

 

I don't know if Oswald acted alone or not but I wouldn't dismiss the potential others were involved just because no one has blabbed yet.

post #6 of 68
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

You can pull off a conspiracy if you kill everyone that might cause the leak.  We've seen some questionable events happen in our history and after the event key people related to it end up dead with very little news coverage.

 

I don't know if Oswald acted alone or not but I wouldn't dismiss the potential others were involved just because no one has blabbed yet.

There is doubt on both sides -- one must be open minded to all evidence and sift through it.

 

Back to memories of that time. I was one of the few 8 yr olds I knew who read the entire newspaper - I remember eating pizza (it was Friday and we didn't do meat on that day) that night and reading the Los Angeles Times and the big headlines. I think Mom was crying for a time and Dad did not say much. Heck, and they'd voted for Nixon. It was a very contentious election with strong feelings. I read every word of the news that weekend. And then I came home from Church on Sunday, just to watch that Oswald was shot a few minutes earlier. Weird weekend for an 8 yr old news junkie. I also read a lot of baseball stats as a kid… 

post #7 of 68
I don't think it was physically possible for him to have fired three shots as seen or for the bullet to do as it did and not be mushroomed at all.
post #8 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post
 

I was three and a half, but I remember everyone was sad and the TV was on news all the time.  JFK had an office above my grandfathers bakery when he was running for senate.  I am not convinced about a conspiracy.  I think if there were more involved, they would have spilled there guts before passing or let it slip.  This is too big a secret to keep.  Then there is Occam's razor.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond View Post
 

I am more in the camp of "Oswald fired 3 times" than a conspiracy. I don't think a conspiracy can remain mum for 50 years.

Count me among you two as well.  Not one single person involved since has had a moment of clarity or guilt, or decided on their deathbed that they need to get this off their chest?  Come on.

 

Heck, even 'Deepthroat' could only hold it in for so long and his entire "job" was leaking and keeping a secret.

 

Plus, I don't remember when or where, but I've seen a docu in the last couple of years that showed that it WAS possible for Oswald to have fired the necessary shots with no help.

post #9 of 68
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

 

 

Count me among you two as well.  Not one single person involved since has had a moment of clarity or guilt, or decided on their deathbed that they need to get this off their chest?  Come on.

 

Heck, even 'Deepthroat' could only hold it in for so long and his entire "job" was leaking and keeping a secret.

 

Plus, I don't remember when or where, but I've seen a docu in the last couple of years that showed that it WAS possible for Oswald to have fired the necessary shots with no help.

Dad told me the FBI did re-enact the shoot. At the same time, that's like playing a practice round versus a tournament.

post #10 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond View Post
 

Dad told me the FBI did re-enact the shoot. At the same time, that's like playing a practice round versus a tournament.

 

Your dad lied to you about other things I'm guessing as well. :-)

post #11 of 68
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

Your dad lied to you about other things I'm guessing as well. :-)

 

He is pretty much a tell it as it is type - and he had inside info. So, I'll go with it.

post #12 of 68

I was 11 years old and I remember that day like it was yesterday. A black day in our history, even moreso in our Irish Catholic home. That was personal.

 

Think about how times have changed. There is one single documented video record of what happened in Dallas that day, all because some guy (Zabruder) wanted to try out his new toy. Could you imagine if it happened today?

post #13 of 68

I was in eighth grade and the entire student body was ushered into the gymnasium where the news was broken to us, followed by bus dismissal. Many teachers and students cried, (especially the girls), but most of the hormonal teenage guys were mostly clueless, (which we were most of the time in those days). For the next few days we intently watched TV with our family, and I can vividly remember watching the live feed of Jack Ruby shooting Oswald on our old black and white TV.

 

In retrospect, this might have been the event that had the biggest affect on our lives, as well as the direction of our country took. Had Kennedy lived he certainly would have been elected for a second term, and from many accounts, we would have been out of the war. I lost several friends in Vietnam in the early 70's following the original military draft on December 1, 1969. Very sad. I also think that Jack's presidency could have been followed by Bobby, who was far more popular than LBJ.

post #14 of 68

My two cents:

 

The most plausible explanation for what happened in Dealey Plaza 50 years ago, based on what we actually know about the assassination, is that Lee Harvey Oswald was the only person firing shots that day. What we don't know is whether Oswald was acting out of his own volition in shooting the President, or whether he was compelled by some outside agency. We know that the American, Soviet, and Cuban governments all knew of Oswald, and all three regarded him more or less as a harmless nutcase; he certainly wouldn't be the person anyone would call for a clandestine hit. I believe Oswald's plan probably looked like this.

  • Oswald finds out Kennedy's motorcade would pass directly in front of his workplace, and he can't believe his luck.
  • Oswald shoots Kennedy. We know that his rifle was capable of firing three shots in the time provided, and we know that Oswald was capable of hitting such a target during his Marine Corps training; even so, the bullet that killed Kennedy was probably a lucky shot.
  • Oswald somehow flees to Cuba via Mexico, and he is greeted by Castro as a hero of the revolution.

 

I think it's likely the FBI and/or CIA were actors in a cover-up of the events leading up to the assassination, but the cover-up has nothing to do with any wide-reaching conspiracy. Rather, the agencies were trying to cover their asses because of what they knew about Oswald. As a person of interest who could have been expected to at least make a pro-Castro demonstration while the President was in his hometown, it's nearly inexcusable that Oswald was allowed to slip through the cracks in preparation of Kennedy's visit to Dallas.

 

For a lot of the other inconsistencies surrounding the events of the assassination, the general rule is to cite Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by stupidity."

post #15 of 68

I was a young man in the military overseas when Kennedy was shot.  I had the midnight to 8 AM watch and remember my buddy from the comm center running over and telling me the President had been shot.  It wasn't too much later that we heard he had died and it was a "Russian" that had assassinated the President.  The Russians (Soviet Union) was serious business in those days and not too long before this was the "guns of October incident (blockage of Cuba)" so thing got pretty busy in a hurry on the station preparing for war.  I just have to wonder at this point if we know all that really happened that led up to and the aftermath of the Kennedy assassination.  Probably not.  

post #16 of 68
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghalfaire View Post
 

I just have to wonder at this point if we know all that really happened that led up to and the aftermath of the Kennedy assassination.  Probably not.  

Probably not.

 

The more I read about Oswald, the more you realize that he was the type that would not participate in any conspiracy - when they say "lone gunman", they mean "lone."

 

This was a guy raised in Brooklyn and New Orleans, taken in for analysis at a young age, his mother left for long periods of time, he slept with her until he was 11, no father influence, wanted to be somebody, paranoid, schizophrenic,  the Russians took him to a shrink and he was under supervision while there, he rejected Russia, he abused his wife, grew in love with Castro, some think he liked JFK until the anti-Castro going-on's, and then he went against him, he tried to assassinate a General Walker in Dallas 7 months before, but the bullet hit the edge of a window pane, barely missing the General, Oswald ran and escaped - some think that emboldened him to think he could get away with anything, and led him to the assassination in November, he had planned his escape, was secretive, and obsessive...

 

Not exactly the type to be involved with others.

 

And then, there is his mother, who had moved to Ft. Worth, and was probably the reason Oswald was in Dallas. After the assassination, she called reporters, who said, she was only concerned about how this would affect her - that Marina would get all the attention and sympathy, and she, she would get no money out of this....

 

Some crazy batsh#t

post #17 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond View Post
 

The more I read about Oswald, the more you realize that he was the type that would not participate in any conspiracy - when they say "lone gunman", they mean "lone."

 

Yeah, well, he didn't. He was killed. The whole time he was in custody he protested that he was innocent and was being framed (which really doesn't amount to much one way or the other).

 

I'm not opposed to the idea of Oswald being the lone shooter and planner, but I've not been convinced of it either.

 

It's been almost 20 years since I was up to my neck in the research of this, but there are more than a few things that speak to a frame job to make it an easy case.

post #18 of 68
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

Yeah, well, he didn't. He was killed. The whole time he was in custody he protested that he was innocent and was being framed (which really doesn't amount to much one way or the other).

 

I'm not opposed to the idea of Oswald being the lone shooter and planner, but I've not been convinced of it either.

 

It's been almost 20 years since I was up to my neck in the research of this, but there are more than a few things that speak to a frame job to make it an easy case.

It's typical of a paranoid schizoid to deny what they did. In my experience, it's always someone else's fault, or in their delusions, they did not do it.

 

As to convinced,  I'm not convinced of anything, but I side with the "Oswald as the lone gunman" theory.

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