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Why are the men (PGA Tour) so much better than the women (LPGA)? - Page 4

post #55 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by inthehole View Post
 

I think it's more social for them - with friends or as a couple.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MS256 View Post
 

I think there's a whole lot of truth in that statement. Probably why some areas have almost no women golfers and others have a lot. It probably wouldn't even take much to start that ball rolling.

 

There has never been a single time that my wife ever went to the course alone to play golf, but she always gets excited when her friend calls her and asks if she wants to play. I'm sure both of them would play many more rounds of golf if there were a few more women that wanted to play.

 

In contrast I used to go to the course every day that I didn't work and play all day long, and every afternoon on the days I did work. If somebody showed up and wanted to play that was great but if nobody showed up I still played all day long anyway.

Totally agree with both of these statements.  My wife is another example.  She has a lot of fun when we go play, but she would never even consider doing it alone.  She has 0% , actually more like negative interest, in playing or practicing golf by herself.

 

Quote:

It's sort of like why most women would much rather go shopping with a bunch of girlfriends than to sit in a deer stand alone all day long.

Actually, I'd be with the women on this one. ;) I don't think I'd have any interest in sitting in a deer stand all day long either.  I don't think hunting is for me.  Would love to try skeet shooting though.  And, although I haven't done it in a few years, I also love fly fishing. :)

post #56 of 73

Totally agree with both of these statements.  My wife is another example.  She has a lot of fun when we go play, but she would never even consider doing it alone.  She has 0% , actually more like negative interest, in playing or practicing golf by herself.

My wife as well.     She & I played around 60 times together last year & she would never consider going to play alone.     It's a confidence thing in her case - she loves playing, but would be nervous about the pressure of playing with other guys, afraid of hitting a bad shot & slowing them down, etc ...

post #57 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick1998bunker View Post

My friend and I are wondering why the PGA tour players are so much better than the LPGA. Other than distance which I assume is irrelevant because they play farther back. Maybe with higher club head speed they can make better recovery shots? I assume the LPGA has the same opportunity to practice. Thanks

Also what handicap would be needed to make the cut about half the time on the LPGA.

If all stands equal, their skill level isnt good enough.

The variance of a top 100 golfer on the LPGA vs a top 100 PGA is huge in difference.

all stats shows the same thing only like top 30 on the lpga is close to another where the PGA the seperation happens after top 100.

its why a lady (Anikka) could dominate the LPGA tour but a PGA player cant.

If your not pushed to be better then you wont.

the US girls is now feeling the pressure of the asian invasion, Lydia Ko will dominate the tour unless leadbetter curse aka fix her swing happens for a decade or more.

Yani Tseng lost her game as soon she did listen to her Leadbetter trainer.

Hard working asian girls and lots of them is coming.

post #58 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick1998bunker View Post

My friend and I are wondering why the PGA tour players are so much better than the LPGA. Other than distance which I assume is irrelevant because they play farther back. Maybe with higher club head speed they can make better recovery shots? I assume the LPGA has the same opportunity to practice. Thanks

What is being overlooked on this thread is the fact that the Wendy's 3-Tour Challenge is somewhat of a barometer for competition between the men and women pros. The tournament is a unique stroke play event, and, as the name suggests, pits three teams, with three members per team, from the PGA Tour, the LPGA Tour, and the Champions Tour against each other. The event is handicapped to level the playing field. The PGA Tour players play the course at its full length, while the Champions Tour players hit from tee positions that make the course shorter and the LPGA players from even shorter tee positions. The 2013 format was played as the two best balls for each team.

 

In the 22 years of the event the PGA tour has won 9 times, the Champions Tour 7 times and the LPGA 6 times, including the 2013 challenge. 

 

These results seem to indicate that there not as much disparity between the tours as one might think.

 

I am not naive enough to believe that women can beat men on a level playing field. However, when the rules are changed women can be competitive.  It's like playing a match against another golfer using your handicaps.

 

But, getting back to the original question:   Why are the men (PGA Tour) so much better than the women (LPGA)?  The answer is pretty simple... The PGA is better because of the physical differences between men and women, and there is more competition among male golfers due to the disparity in the number of players.

post #59 of 73

The tour doesn't draw the best female athletes because golf isn't as popular with women. If all of them were like Suzann it would be different. When the tour starts attracting the likes of the Williams sisters then maybe it will catch up. But the purses will have to get bigger and the sponsorships better before that happens.

 

Here I see quite a few women golfers but the disparity between them is significant. It really varies course to course. At my parents club there are a lot of women out there. But they tend to be the affluent ex-college athlete types and young aspiring athletes. Even the older women are decent golfers but most swim, play tennis and do all the other activities at the club. At my home course it's the 50 plus women that are mostly there to socialize. Surprisingly my former home course has a sizable women's club for a town of 7000 people. I think they have more members than the men's club. One thing I don't see many women doing is practicing. I don't think I've ever seen one on the range at the home course and rarely anywhere else besides my parents club. The exception would be CO National. It's the home course for the CU Buffs and draws young families to the surrounding community. Not sure how good of a gauge that is though. The men I see there just hit ball after ball. In general I don't see many golfers doing anything at the practice facility that means anything.

post #60 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post
 

The tour doesn't draw the best female athletes because golf isn't as popular with women. If all of them were like Suzann it would be different. When the tour starts attracting the likes of the Williams sisters then maybe it will catch up. But the purses will have to get bigger and the sponsorships better before that happens.

 

Here I see quite a few women golfers but the disparity between them is significant. It really varies course to course. At my parents club there are a lot of women out there. But they tend to be the affluent ex-college athlete types and young aspiring athletes. Even the older women are decent golfers but most swim, play tennis and do all the other activities at the club. At my home course it's the 50 plus women that are mostly there to socialize. Surprisingly my former home course has a sizable women's club for a town of 7000 people. I think they have more members than the men's club. One thing I don't see many women doing is practicing. I don't think I've ever seen one on the range at the home course and rarely anywhere else besides my parents club. The exception would be CO National. It's the home course for the CU Buffs and draws young families to the surrounding community. Not sure how good of a gauge that is though. The men I see there just hit ball after ball. In general I don't see many golfers doing anything at the practice facility that means anything.

 

What's amazing is that the golf market is over 6 times the size of the tennis market in the US. There really shouldn't be a reason for such a disparity.

 

I have an aunt who liked Billy Jean King, and she was matched up with Bobby Riggs. It would be like a LPGA being matched up to someone like Freddy Couples, and winning.

 

Navratilova vs. Connors was the reverse, but definitely not a washout. They were closer in age 35 and 40.

 

I am sure that the Williams sisters won't be so easy to beat.

post #61 of 73
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Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 

 

I am sure that the Williams sisters won't be so easy to beat.

You would be wrong. ;-)

post #62 of 73
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Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 

 

I am sure that the Williams sisters won't be so easy to beat.

You would be wrong. ;-)


I meant at tennis.:-)

post #63 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 


I meant at tennis.:-)

I 'speck' you didn't read my link then???  I meant tennis too.  They both played a set against a "nobody" pro male tennis player (ranked just over 200 in the world) and they both got waxed.

post #64 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 


I meant at tennis.:-)

I 'speck' you didn't read my link then???  I meant tennis too.  They both played a set against a "nobody" pro male tennis player (ranked just over 200 in the world) and they both got waxed.


My "Battle of the Sexes" source (for tennis) was not updated. :8) 

 

 

 

 

Karsten Braasch v the Williams Sisters

During the 1998 Australian Open, sisters Serena and Venus Williams boasted that they could beat any man ranked outside the world's top 200. The challenge was accepted by Karsten Braasch, a German player ranked No 203 (his highest ranking was No 38). Before the matches, Braasch played a round of golf in the morning, drank a couple of beers, smoked a few cigarettes, and then played the Williams sisters for a set each, one after the other. He defeated Serena, 6-1, and Venus, 6-2. Serena said afterwards "I didn't know it would be that hard. I hit shots that would have been winners on the women's tour and he got to them easily."

In 1999 when Serena Williams was 18 and ranked 4th in the world, she re-opened the debate on whether women can compete with men in professional sport. The US Open champion believed she could take on and beat the best players in the men's game - she even applied for a wild card entry to take part in a men's singles event, the Eurocard Open, but this did not eventuate, mainly because she could not compete as she was not a man.

post #65 of 73

I didn't mean to spark a tennis debate. I only mentioned the Williams sisters to point out the LPGA needs more dominant players to inspire a new crop and push the field the way they did. Tiger played a similar role for the PGA. The pros in the post Tiger era are trending to be more athletic, more dedicated to practice and less leisurely than some of the pros of the past. Not really a men vs. women comment just pointing out the LPGA likely isn't attracting the elite women athletes. But I'm not sure what is either. Olympic sports?

post #66 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 


I meant at tennis.:-)


I haven't thought of the "Battle of the Sexes" in a long time. ;-) 

 

I still think the same thing now that I did when it happened and had to listen to the girls in school the next day saying "Na na na na na! Women are better players than men." 

 

Riggs was washed up as a player long before then and was much better at promoting himself than at playing tennis. Then to top it off he almost couldn't have played any worse if he tried (which was always in question anyway).

post #67 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS256 View Post
 


I haven't thought of the "Battle of the Sexes" in a long time. ;-)

 

I still think the same thing now that I did when it happened and had to listen to the girls in school the next day saying "Na na na na na! Women are better players than men."

 

Riggs was washed up as a player long before then and was much better at promoting himself than at playing tennis. Then to top it off he almost couldn't have played any worse if he tried (which was always in question anyway).

 

Yup.  I remember he didn't even take off his warm up suit until well into the match.

post #68 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post
 

I didn't mean to spark a tennis debate. I only mentioned the Williams sisters to point out the LPGA needs more dominant players to inspire a new crop and push the field the way they did. Tiger played a similar role for the PGA. The pros in the post Tiger era are trending to be more athletic, more dedicated to practice and less leisurely than some of the pros of the past. Not really a men vs. women comment just pointing out the LPGA likely isn't attracting the elite women athletes. But I'm not sure what is either. Olympic sports?


Yeah, I didn't really expect the debate part, but it does show that even the 203rd (formerly 38th) men's player is very dominant as compared to the ladies that play. The Willam's sisters are very dominant over the rest of the field. Maybe tennis has the same problem?

 

Maybe, in turn, the PGA players really are that much better than the LPGA?

 

Not sure if it is strength or fast twitch muscles.

 

In any case, the LPGA are much better than any of us (Unless they are a scratch player? Oops, another debate?). :whistle:

post #69 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 

...the LPGA are much better than any of us (Unless they are a scratch player? Oops, another debate?). :whistle:

 

I wouldn't say any, I would say most of us. 

 

Even though women on the LPGA tour would score better than most of us, there are a lot of men from age 18 through 40 who can drive a ball farther than most LPGA tour players. (The LPGA average driving distance in 2012 was 253 yards and in 2013 there were only two golfers who averaged more than 270 yards.) This is no disrespect, just the facts. So if I am going to spend my disposable cash, I would like to see something spectacular, like golfers hitting the ball 300+ yards off of the tee, or playing 500 yard par 4 holes. It's no wonder the ladies don't draw crowds like the men.

 

Don't get me wrong, I raised a daughter who was a champion golfer in high school, who by her senior year could hit the ball 250-260 on a regular basis. When it came time to go to college, she preferred to spend her time engaged in her school work, rather than try and perfect her game.  It broke my heart, but she earned her MBA, (and a good job), by the time she was 22. She now has more pleasure golfing with her friends and co-workers and beating the "guys" at every opportunity.  In addition, I really like to see the women live, because you can really get up close and personal, compared to the men.  It will be interesting to see how back-to-back U.S. Opens fair this year at Pinehurst.

post #70 of 73
Thread Starter 

I see about 5 women every time I play. Its rare to find one under 50 though.

post #71 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick1998bunker View Post
 

 Its rare to find one under 50 though.

 

no doubt - I see this pattern as well.    Gets back to the whole "social" aspect of the game for them I think.    Lets face it, younger women with families don't have the time & its a very rare thing for a young single woman to be a golf addict like we are, which leaves the older women - their kids are grown, husbands are probably out golfing with their buddies, so they golf with their like aged girl-friends.    It makes sense ...

post #72 of 73

Quite simply, men are better athletes, on the whole - it's simple biology (you can always find rare outliers).  

 

When you look at the stats, as has been mentioned, the skill level of the men in top 100 is a lot closer than that of the women.  The difference in scoring average between the #1 and #100 in scoring avg. on the two tours in 2013 was as follows:

 

PGA: 2.108

LPGA: 3.585

 

That's a 1½ stroke difference, which also explains why it's easier for a top women's golfer to dominate while it's very rare in the men's game - there simply isn't as much competition at the top. Also keep in mind that the difference in the women's game occurs on courses that are much shorter and much less penalizing than the men play on

 

For whatever reason, men are also better scramblers and putters at the elite level.  Maybe that again goes back to biology, hand-eye-coordination, and men evolving as hunters.  Who knows.

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