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Anyone ever think about this when talking about the "Magic 59" score?

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 

This is pretty small scale in the scheme of things, but I never understood why 59 was viewed as the "magic number" for golf when only 3 of the 6 PGA Tour 59 rounds were shot on par 72 courses. The difference between 11 under and 13 under is monumental. It's almost like giving an MLB pitcher the same credit for throwing a no-hitter through 8 innings and 9. I get it - writing a "5" as the first digit on your 18 hole tally is amazing, but when I run for president, I'm going to add "13 not 59" to my campaign platform, as in 13 under is what's more impressive, not 59. I don;t expect to get a kickstarter of the month award for this one, but I wondered who had thoughts on it.

post #2 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmoan2 View Post
 

This is pretty small scale in the scheme of things, but I never understood why 59 was viewed as the "magic number" for golf when only 3 of the 6 PGA Tour 59 rounds were shot on par 72 courses. The difference between 11 under and 13 under is monumental. It's almost like giving an MLB pitcher the same credit for throwing a no-hitter through 8 innings and 9. I get it - writing a "5" as the first digit on your 18 hole tally is amazing, but when I run for president, I'm going to add "13 not 59" to my campaign platform, as in 13 under is what's more impressive, not 59. I don;t expect to get a kickstarter of the month award for this one, but I wondered who had thoughts on it.

 

59 is 59..

 

510 yard par 4...

 

504 yard par 5..

post #3 of 27
Thread Starter 

So you're saying the 510 yard par 4 13th at Bethpage Black is equal to the 510 yard par 5 I played at my local muni last week?

post #4 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmoan2 View Post
 

So you're saying the 510 yard par 4 13th at Bethpage Black is equal to the 510 yard par 5 I played at my local muni last week?

 

No.  But some holes on tour are played as a par four when they could be listed as a par five.

post #5 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14ledo81 View Post
 

 

No.  But some holes on tour are played as a par four when they could be listed as a par five.

 

I agree with you, but some aren't as well. You could compare the slope/ratings all day to say what the most impressive 59 is, but ultimately I think the par for the course determines what the score is based upon. If it needed to be a 500 yard par 4, it would be and vice-versa. Then again, a 59 on a course 30 years ago is very different. Like I said, this is pretty hair-splitting, so if you shoot a 59 or 60 you're a stud either way. If they start handing out million dollar bonuses for shooting a 59, maybe I'll worry more about this!

post #6 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmoan2 View Post
 

So you're saying the 510 yard par 4 13th at Bethpage Black is equal to the 510 yard par 5 I played at my local muni last week?

Basically, yes.  Or better yet ... the 515 yard par 4 sixth at Torrey Pines (during the US Open) is equal to the 515 yard par 5 sixth at my local muni.  (Hint:  The local muni I'm talking about IS Torrey Pines.)

 

Par is completely arbitrary.  If you watch a lot of golf on TV, try and think of how many times the announcers casually mention "this is played as a par 5 for the members," or something along those lines.

 

So a 59 during the US Open (lets ignore all of the other things they do to make the course more difficult that week, for the sake of simplicity) is not as good as a 59 during the Farmers Insurance Open because it's only -12, instead of -13?  Of course not.  That's ridiculous.

 

So, I agree with what @14ledo81 said ... a 59 in a 59 is a 59.

post #7 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

Basically, yes.  Or better yet ... the 515 yard par 4 sixth at Torrey Pines (during the US Open) is equal to the 515 yard par 5 sixth at my local muni.  (Hint:  The local muni I'm talking about IS Torrey Pines.)

 

Par is completely arbitrary.  If you watch a lot of golf on TV, try and think of how many times the announcers casually mention "this is played as a par 5 for the members," or something along those lines.

 

So a 59 during the US Open (lets ignore all of the other things they do to make the course more difficult that week, for the sake of simplicity) is not as good as a 59 during the Farmers Insurance Open because it's only -12, instead of -13?  Of course not.  That's ridiculous.

 

So, I agree with what @14ledo81 said ... a 59 in a 59 is a 59.

Now you actually got me to believe that a 59 at the U.S. Open is better than one at the Farmer's Insurance Open. Thanks!

post #8 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmoan2 View Post
 

Now you actually got me to believe that a 59 at the U.S. Open is better than one at the Farmer's Insurance Open. Thanks!

No way ... it's worse!  It's only -12, versus -13 for the Farmers Insurance Open.;-)

post #9 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

No way ... it's worse!  It's only -12, versus -13 for the Farmers Insurance Open.;-)

However you want to look at it, at least I got you to admit that a 59 isn't a 59 isn't a 59. :banana:

post #10 of 27

Raining 59s in South Africa

Two 59s in one round at one event? How amazing is that? Too bad for those guys that lift, clean, and place was in effect. Scores won't be in the record books.

post #11 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmoan2 View Post
 

However you want to look at it, at least I got you to admit that a 59 isn't a 59 isn't a 59. :banana:

I did?!?!?!?!

post #12 of 27

I feel what you are saying.  It would be a little cleaner if -13 was this special mark.  But 13 isn't a round number so 59 becomes the number.  I'd prefer the 13 thing.  My home course is a par 70, so I kinda feel like I am always overstating how well I shot when asked.  But to say, "I played good, shot an 87!  But full disclosure it is a par 70." is a little awkward.  Also, I once shot a 78 there.  Only time I've broken 80.  But it is a little overstated since on a par 72, I would have actually shot 80, not broken it.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmoan2 View Post

However you want to look at it, at least I got you to admit that a 59 isn't a 59 isn't a 59. :banana:

I did?!?!?!?!

 

I think he kinda did.  A little.

post #13 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandomGolfer View Post
 

Two 59s in one round at one event? How amazing is that? Too bad for those guys that lift, clean, and place was in effect. Scores won't be in the record books.


So, I guess when "Winter Rules" are in effect, no records count? We could suppose they played by standard rules to get 59s?

post #14 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmoan2 View Post
 However you want to look at it, at least I got you to admit that a 59 isn't a 59 isn't a 59. :banana:

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meltdwhiskey View Post
 

I think he kinda did.  A little.

You mean with this comment:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

No way ... it's worse!  It's only -12, versus -13 for the Farmers Insurance Open.;-)

I was being sarcastic.

 

My view is, at least as far as the PGA tour goes, all 59's are basically equal.  Inasmuch as we don't split hairs over a guy who hits 50 home runs as a righty playing for the Red Sox versus a guy who hits 50 as a lefty playing for the Padres.  Even though, technically, 50 homers to right field in Petco Park is astronomically harder than 50 to left in Fenway, we don't account for that.  We simply count homers.

 

Same is true in golf.  Yes, perhaps if you want to really analyze it, the courses where the guys shoot 59 on a par 70 might have slightly lower ratings than the courses that are par 71 or 72 (I actually don't know ... maybe I'll try and go research it) but not enough to make it worth our while to care.

 

----------------------

 

EDIT:

 

The Old White Course at the Greenbrier is a Par 70, 7287 yards, and rated 75.7/141 from the tips.  (Stuart Appleby's 59)

 

The Palmer Private Course at PGA West where David Duval shot a 59 (the last one shot at a Par 72 course) is 6,950 yards long and is rated 74/143.

 

Which is more impressive?  The one that says -13, or the one that was done on a course that is rated almost 3 shots harder???

post #15 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 


So, I guess when "Winter Rules" are in effect, no records count? We could suppose they played by standard rules to get 59s?

The course is heavily waterlogged in some places. One of the Par 5s is playing 410 yards because they bought the tee up to avoid the waterlogging, but as mentioned up thread a 59 is a 59 is a 59.

post #16 of 27
Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

 

I was being sarcastic.

 

 

My bad.  Didn't catch it.  And 59 is awesome no matter what.  It is a truly special event to shoot it.  But I see his point, too.  Even though courses have different ratings and conditions - I'd still think of a 'world record' or something similar as an under par score b/c of the different pars.  I'd find it slightly better than the raw 59.  

post #17 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meltdwhiskey View Post
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

 

I was being sarcastic.

 

 

My bad.  Didn't catch it.  And 59 is awesome no matter what.  It is a truly special event to shoot it.  But I see his point, too.  Even though courses have different ratings and conditions - I'd still think of a 'world record' or something similar as an under par score b/c of the different pars.  I'd find it slightly better than the raw 59.  

 

Two 59's in one event, is a pretty rare event, but like the poster said they played winter rule's.

post #18 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meltdwhiskey View Post
 

But I see his point, too.  Even though courses have different ratings and conditions - I'd still think of a 'world record' or something similar as an under par score b/c of the different pars.  I'd find it slightly better than the raw 59.

Even in the specific example I gave?  David Duval played a course that was 337 yards SHORTER and had a rating of 1.7 (whoops, just realized my math mistake earlier, sorry about that) shots EASIER, albeit with a slightly higher slope.

 

This means that REGARDLESS of the par shown, experts believe that a scratch player would have a tougher time, by over 1.5 shots on average, on the par 70 course.

 

I guess you either don't understand the USGA rating system OR perhaps you just don't trust it.

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