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Lob Wedge - Is it only useful in expert hands? - Page 4

post #55 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakester23 View Post

I completely agree that its not a club for every shot. For me if the ball is within a yard or two.from the green I will chip (unless i need to carry something). I probably would say I pitch around the greens 80% of the time. I'd say I use my 58 degree wedge 90% of my pitches. I will use my 54 or my 50 depending on the lie or distance of the shot. All I am saying is technique is what allows me to use any club. Using the quickie pitching technique I can hit all different trajectories with different amounts of release. So for me I can do more with my LW. I know everyone has their own ideas and I'm not saying your wrong but I use my 58 way more than my 54 or 46. I wish I didn't have to use it so much buy my long irons are atrocious a1_smile.gif

 



There really is no "wrong". Just different odds of success on different shots for different people. Playing our best odds on every shot is all we can do unless we improve something that changes the odds.
post #56 of 75
I was terrible around the greens a few years ago. Then I ffound the quickie pitching technique and its completely changed my short game. It has single handedly dropped scores. I practiced that shot a lot in the yard and it was worth it. Now I need to take time to practice chipping. That is something I'm inconsistent with.
post #57 of 75

Some of you guys forget that lob wedge, or any shot, is a combination of Technique, Skill and Confidence. Your technique may be the very best in all the world and gets you sub-par every time. But the other golfers of the world have differing skill levels, and certainly different confidence levels. For H'cap 20 golfers, the vast majority, the least loft necessary and the most confidence available give the best result. 

post #58 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

 

You can't dismiss the geometry.  Swinging the club 1/4" deeper than planned at impact is going to make a bigger difference with a 60° wedge in the result of the shot than mishitting the same amount on a 47° PW.  And hitting it thin will have an even bigger impact because you are simply swinging so much harder to hit the same intended distance.  

 

I don't argue that there may be the occasional shot which can't be executed with anything but a LW (and because those moments are so rare, I choose not to carry one at all and just take my medicine on that one shot every 3 or 4 rounds).  It has just been my observation since they first started to show in the average players' bags, most players have the mistaken idea that just because they have it, they have to use it, and as a result they overuse it.  I see them used when there is no trouble to carry and no reason in the world for playing not playing a higher percentage shot.  Unless a player has put in the practice time you say that you have they are not going to be very successful with one.

 

I can pitch with a PW, a GW, a SW - I can even pitch with a 8I (and often do).  Just because I'm not using a LW doesn't mean that I'm chipping.  Even with proper technique, mishits happen, and yes, it is still more difficult to use and it takes more practice to be proficient with a LW than it does with a 50° GW.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

 

You can't dismiss the geometry.  Swinging the club 1/4" deeper than planned at impact is going to make a bigger difference with a 60° wedge in the result of the shot than mishitting the same amount on a 47° PW.  And hitting it thin will have an even bigger impact because you are simply swinging so much harder to hit the same intended distance.  

 

I don't argue that there may be the occasional shot which can't be executed with anything but a LW (and because those moments are so rare, I choose not to carry one at all and just take my medicine on that one shot every 3 or 4 rounds).  It has just been my observation since they first started to show in the average players' bags, most players have the mistaken idea that just because they have it, they have to use it, and as a result they overuse it.  I see them used when there is no trouble to carry and no reason in the world for playing not playing a higher percentage shot.  Unless a player has put in the practice time you say that you have they are not going to be very successful with one.

 

I can pitch with a PW, a GW, a SW - I can even pitch with a 8I (and often do).  Just because I'm not using a LW doesn't mean that I'm chipping.  Even with proper technique, mishits happen, and yes, it is still more difficult to use and it takes more practice to be proficient with a LW than it does with a 50° GW.

 

I think geometry has something to do with it, but feel and mental confidence are a bigger part of it for me. I happen to feel more comfortable swinging a bit harder with a 60 LW than with a 52 AW. I also use my LW much more often out of greenside bunkers because of the extra loft. Now that I analyze your example above, also, I'm not convinced your conclusion is correct. If I swing 1/4" deeper with the LW, I would think that it would add a couple of feet of height, but less misfire on the distance whereas I would overshoot my target more as the loft of the club decreases. Maybe I'm not understanding the meaning of the term "deeper." I'm thinking of it as a steeper angle of attack. Also, to me unless you completely skull a ball so much that you are hitting the top half of the ball with the leading edge of the club, the less loft you have, the less air you will get under the ball causing it to fly past your target more.

 

I probably should do more real analysis before I spout off, but I just have never had much of a problem with a LW and I use it for at least 3 shots a round. Don't get me wrong, though. I carry 4 wedges, and will pitch/chip with any club from an LW to an 8i (or even chip with my 5 iron on a super long green), so I know what you mean. Maybe it's just stinking luck or a subconscious mental thing, but I've hit far more excellent short game shots with my LW than any other club. And I don;t practice with it any more or less than my other wedges.

post #59 of 75

I think we need to define what we mean by lob wedge.  I use my 58.12 for a variety of shots.  I consider the 58 a SW/LW.  I use it for the following:

 

1. Full shot from 80 yards when I need all carry and little roll.

2. Chips within 20-30 yards.

3. Pitch shots up to 50 yards.

4. Sand shots within 20 yards.

5. Occasional flop shot

 

It is the most used, most accurate and most versatile club in my bag.  I will almost always use it for short game shots unless I need more roll out.  I use the Stan Utley methods (and Iacas, mvmac) for these shots.  Utley recommends using one club for all these shots because you become very familiar with what will happen instead of recalculating distances with different clubs.

 

I have not tried at 60 or higher mostly because I don't think I would get the distance needed with a full swing to make it useful.

 

I just picked up an almost new 58.12 this year because my other one was very beat up and worn from all its use.  It is the only club that I have replaced due to wear.

post #60 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post
 

I think we need to define what we mean by lob wedge.  I use my 58.12 for a variety of shots.  I consider the 58 a SW/LW.  I use it for the following:

 

1. Full shot from 80 yards when I need all carry and little roll.

2. Chips within 20-30 yards.

3. Pitch shots up to 50 yards.

4. Sand shots within 20 yards.

5. Occasional flop shot

 

It is the most used, most accurate and most versatile club in my bag.  I will almost always use it for short game shots unless I need more roll out.  I use the Stan Utley methods (and Iacas, mvmac) for these shots.  Utley recommends using one club for all these shots because you become very familiar with what will happen instead of recalculating distances with different clubs.

 

I have not tried at 60 or higher mostly because I don't think I would get the distance needed with a full swing to make it useful.

 

I just picked up an almost new 58.12 this year because my other one was very beat up and worn from all its use.  It is the only club that I have replaced due to wear.

 

And I'm where you are, only I use my 51° GW for most of it.  The highest loft club I carry is 56° (10° bounce), and that is not my SW (my SW is a 54°11° Vokey), it's my utility/lob wedge.  It gets used only when the circumstances make it necessary to carry over rough or bunker.  Otherwise it stays in the bag.  I've been known to hit a 50 yard pitch with an 8I.  Mostly depends on what feels right at the time.  I don't like making full shots with lofted wedges, never have.  I went through a period some 20 years ago where I couldn't hit a full shot with anything shorter than an 8I, so that's what I used from 140 yards to close to the green.  I got good enough with it that I surprised myself and my playing companions with some of my 100 yard 8I shots.  

 

Ultimately, I figured out what was wrong with my wedges, but that time has served me well in that I learned to be creative in my short game, and when I'm in playing form, I still hit shots that leave me wondering how I did it.  My GW is like that 8I.  I move the ball around in my stance, sometimes open the face, make different length swings to do different things with it.  I prefer pitches which run out toward the hole because they have a better chance of hitting the hole or the flagstick and falling than the shot that drops and stops.  When I was playing a lot, I expected to hole a chip at least once every couple of rounds.  I once holed 4 chips/pitches in one round.  I had chipped in for eagles at least 4 times before I ever holed an eagle putt.

post #61 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

 

And I'm where you are, only I use my 51° GW for most of it.  The highest loft club I carry is 56° (10° bounce), and that is not my SW (my SW is a 54°11° Vokey), it's my utility/lob wedge.  It gets used only when the circumstances make it necessary to carry over rough or bunker.  Otherwise it stays in the bag.  I've been known to hit a 50 yard pitch with an 8I.  Mostly depends on what feels right at the time.  I don't like making full shots with lofted wedges, never have.  I went through a period some 20 years ago where I couldn't hit a full shot with anything shorter than an 8I, so that's what I used from 140 yards to close to the green.  I got good enough with it that I surprised myself and my playing companions with some of my 100 yard 8I shots.  

 

Ultimately, I figured out what was wrong with my wedges, but that time has served me well in that I learned to be creative in my short game, and when I'm in playing form, I still hit shots that leave me wondering how I did it.  My GW is like that 8I.  I move the ball around in my stance, sometimes open the face, make different length swings to do different things with it.  I prefer pitches which run out toward the hole because they have a better chance of hitting the hole or the flagstick and falling than the shot that drops and stops.  When I was playing a lot, I expected to hole a chip at least once every couple of rounds.  I once holed 4 chips/pitches in one round.  I had chipped in for eagles at least 4 times before I ever holed an eagle putt.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post
 

I think we need to define what we mean by lob wedge.  I use my 58.12 for a variety of shots.  I consider the 58 a SW/LW.  I use it for the following:

 

1. Full shot from 80 yards when I need all carry and little roll.

2. Chips within 20-30 yards.

3. Pitch shots up to 50 yards.

4. Sand shots within 20 yards.

5. Occasional flop shot

 

It is the most used, most accurate and most versatile club in my bag.  I will almost always use it for short game shots unless I need more roll out.  I use the Stan Utley methods (and Iacas, mvmac) for these shots.  Utley recommends using one club for all these shots because you become very familiar with what will happen instead of recalculating distances with different clubs.

 

I have not tried at 60 or higher mostly because I don't think I would get the distance needed with a full swing to make it useful.

 

I just picked up an almost new 58.12 this year because my other one was very beat up and worn from all its use.  It is the only club that I have replaced due to wear.


I'm with both of you as well, though it's my 60.6 that I'll generally use for all of the shots above except 2. That's when it depends. For a 20 yarder with lots of green, it's probably my 52 or 47, maybe even a 9i or 8i if I only have 8 feet of fringe to carry. If it's a 20 yard chip that needs to carry 10 yards of rough/fringe, it may be a 60 or a 56. I've practiced a lot with both, so it's a feel/vision thing at that point.

 

I agree with Utley's point about a go-to club in this range. It's the distances of 50-120 yards where the Pelz-type wedge system using a 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 swing with different wedges comes into play. I think it would be crazy to take a GW and try to make every swing inside of 120 work for you (I carry my GW about 120 with a "full" swing). Or a LW. But fourputt, I must ask, now that you have heard reasonable testimony from boogielicious that his 58.12 "LW/SW" is his go-to short game club, do you still contend that it's empirically easier to hit a GW over a LW or is it possible that for some people it is the other way around? Like both of us, apparently. Do you think we'd both be more accurate players if we tried using a GW for these shots (except the bunker/flop shots)?

post #62 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmoan2 View Post

 

 

I agree with Utley's point about a go-to club in this range. It's the distances of 50-120 yards where the Pelz-type wedge system using a 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 swing with different wedges comes into play. I think it would be crazy to take a GW and try to make every swing inside of 120 work for you (I carry my GW about 120 with a "full" swing). Or a LW. But fourputt, I must ask, now that you have heard reasonable testimony from boogielicious that his 58.12 "LW/SW" is his go-to short game club, do you still contend that it's empirically easier to hit a GW over a LW or is it possible that for some people it is the other way around? Like both of us, apparently. Do you think we'd both be more accurate players if we tried using a GW for these shots (except the bunker/flop shots)?

 

You can still use the Utley style swing for shots in that 50-100 yard range, just use a gap or even a pitching wedge.  

post #63 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmoan2 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

 

And I'm where you are, only I use my 51° GW for most of it.  The highest loft club I carry is 56° (10° bounce), and that is not my SW (my SW is a 54°11° Vokey), it's my utility/lob wedge.  It gets used only when the circumstances make it necessary to carry over rough or bunker.  Otherwise it stays in the bag.  I've been known to hit a 50 yard pitch with an 8I.  Mostly depends on what feels right at the time.  I don't like making full shots with lofted wedges, never have.  I went through a period some 20 years ago where I couldn't hit a full shot with anything shorter than an 8I, so that's what I used from 140 yards to close to the green.  I got good enough with it that I surprised myself and my playing companions with some of my 100 yard 8I shots.  

 

Ultimately, I figured out what was wrong with my wedges, but that time has served me well in that I learned to be creative in my short game, and when I'm in playing form, I still hit shots that leave me wondering how I did it.  My GW is like that 8I.  I move the ball around in my stance, sometimes open the face, make different length swings to do different things with it.  I prefer pitches which run out toward the hole because they have a better chance of hitting the hole or the flagstick and falling than the shot that drops and stops.  When I was playing a lot, I expected to hole a chip at least once every couple of rounds.  I once holed 4 chips/pitches in one round.  I had chipped in for eagles at least 4 times before I ever holed an eagle putt.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post
 

I think we need to define what we mean by lob wedge.  I use my 58.12 for a variety of shots.  I consider the 58 a SW/LW.  I use it for the following:

 

1. Full shot from 80 yards when I need all carry and little roll.

2. Chips within 20-30 yards.

3. Pitch shots up to 50 yards.

4. Sand shots within 20 yards.

5. Occasional flop shot

 

It is the most used, most accurate and most versatile club in my bag.  I will almost always use it for short game shots unless I need more roll out.  I use the Stan Utley methods (and Iacas, mvmac) for these shots.  Utley recommends using one club for all these shots because you become very familiar with what will happen instead of recalculating distances with different clubs.

 

I have not tried at 60 or higher mostly because I don't think I would get the distance needed with a full swing to make it useful.

 

I just picked up an almost new 58.12 this year because my other one was very beat up and worn from all its use.  It is the only club that I have replaced due to wear.


I'm with both of you as well, though it's my 60.6 that I'll generally use for all of the shots above except 2. That's when it depends. For a 20 yarder with lots of green, it's probably my 52 or 47, maybe even a 9i or 8i if I only have 8 feet of fringe to carry. If it's a 20 yard chip that needs to carry 10 yards of rough/fringe, it may be a 60 or a 56. I've practiced a lot with both, so it's a feel/vision thing at that point.

 

I agree with Utley's point about a go-to club in this range. It's the distances of 50-120 yards where the Pelz-type wedge system using a 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 swing with different wedges comes into play. I think it would be crazy to take a GW and try to make every swing inside of 120 work for you (I carry my GW about 120 with a "full" swing). Or a LW. But fourputt, I must ask, now that you have heard reasonable testimony from boogielicious that his 58.12 "LW/SW" is his go-to short game club, do you still contend that it's empirically easier to hit a GW over a LW or is it possible that for some people it is the other way around? Like both of us, apparently. Do you think we'd both be more accurate players if we tried using a GW for these shots (except the bunker/flop shots)?

 

I'm speaking about averages, not specifics, and this thread was started by a player who lists his handicap as 20+.  Anyone with that much inconsistency in his game is poorly advised if told that a LW is a good choice for him.   He has more important issues to deal with than spending half his practice time trying to perfect a club which is inherently difficult to be consistent with.

post #64 of 75
So to answer the op, I would say yes! A lob wedge is is only useful to someone experienced in using it! And the only way to get experienced is to get one and use it! So get one and have fun with it,.. But not too much fun! Only use it for the reason you bought it! As a high capper myself, who doesn't always land on the green with approach shots, they can get you out of some tricky spots, as your game improves you might find you'll use it less and less but it's nice to have if there's space in ya bag!
post #65 of 75

One aspect that may only apply to me as I haven't seen it mentioned yet ... properly executing a shortsided flop shop is ONE OF THE MOST FUN (or make that REWARDING) shots in the game.       In the summer when they let the rough get excessively high at greenside at a few courses I play... I look forward to pulling the 64° which cuts through the high rough better than anything I've found - so much fun to see that ball pop almost straight up & out of a lie a lot of players give up on & don't know how to handle because they don't have the right club for the job  (can't be afraid to swing it though if you've made the decision to pull it - babying a lob wedge is never good).    Again, I look a the lob wedge as a trouble club - it's my get out of jail free card - use it sparingly, but when I need it, it is really nice to have in the bag...

post #66 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvmac View Post
 

 

You can still use the Utley style swing for shots in that 50-100 yard range, just use a gap or even a pitching wedge.

 

Thanks. I've only been turned on to Utley recently, and I was a Pelz guy for quite a while. Don;t know if they're mutually exclusive, but I'll keep that in mind when practicing.

post #67 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by inthehole View Post
 

Again, I look a the lob wedge as a trouble club - it's my get out of jail free card - use it sparingly, but when I need it, it is really nice to have in the bag...

 

 

yes, this too.  and it is fun to pull that shot off.

 

I'd get one regardless and practice with it.  Whether it makes the "top 14" cut?  the OP would have to decide that based on how practice goes

post #68 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by rehmwa View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by inthehole View Post
 

Again, I look a the lob wedge as a trouble club - it's my get out of jail free card - use it sparingly, but when I need it, it is really nice to have in the bag...

 

 

yes, this too.  and it is fun to pull that shot off.

 

I'd get one regardless and practice with it.  Whether it makes the "top 14" cut?  the OP would have to decide that based on how practice goes

 

Agree with this, although for me, practices went well, but rarely transferred to the course.  At least not with enough success to justify keeping it.

post #69 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

 

Agree with this, although for me, practices went well, but rarely transferred to the course.  At least not with enough success to justify keeping it.

 

((smile)) - The nice part of that is your LW is very shiny and new looking. 

 

 

And you get to select something that 'pays off' better (for you) as your 14th club.

for me, I don't really have another club I'd put in my line up if I took it out (even if i only use it once or twice every couple rounds at best).

post #70 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

 

Agree with this, although for me, practices went well, but rarely transferred to the course.  At least not with enough success to justify keeping it.


A regular playing partner several years ago that was a much better golfer than I was at the time used to watch me hit all sorts of flopping and spinning shots (when totally unnecessary) and give me one of those "Umm...Good shot but I doubt if that's going to hold up under pressure."

 

Over time I figured out he was right. I still use them, practice them, and I'm glad to have them, but only use them when there are no other good options.

post #71 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS256 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourputt View Post
 

 

Agree with this, although for me, practices went well, but rarely transferred to the course.  At least not with enough success to justify keeping it.


A regular playing partner several years ago that was a much better golfer than I was at the time used to watch me hit all sorts of flopping and spinning shots (when totally unnecessary) and give me one of those "Umm...Good shot but I doubt if that's going to hold up under pressure."

 

Over time I figured out he was right. I still use them, practice them, and I'm glad to have them, but only use them when there are no other good options.

 

I prefer to try and avoid putting myself in situations where I'd need it.  When I do leave myself where it would be useful if I had it, I just suck it up and take my medicine, make sure that I get on the green and try to make the longer putt.  After all, 56° isn't that much lower than 60°. 

post #72 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmoan2 View Post
 

 

Thanks. I've only been turned on to Utley recently, and I was a Pelz guy for quite a while. Don;t know if they're mutually exclusive, but I'll keep that in mind when practicing.

 

Check this out

 

 Quickie Pitching Video - Golf Pitch Shot Technique 

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