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Playing with a Scratch Golfer - thoughts? - Page 5

post #73 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer 4 View Post
 

 

 

I see your point, but as some people have a knack for certain things. I do think comparing B ball isn't a great comparison, and I only say that because there is much more to golf than B ball, I played some when I was younger, and My Son was palming and Dunking when he was 13, What I'm saying is golf is more technical imho, but, I could be wrong.

 

I've never known a golfer  that was good from the get go, that's why I made the comment. but I'll take your word for it.

 

any sport can be compared to any other sport, with enough disclaimers.  As an accomplished basketball player I would not readily compare to golf.  Golf does not have a notable cardiovascular component.  Ever try shooting freethrows after running suicides?  How about hitting a golf ball after running 200 meters.  Bball is a great man vs man sport.  Golf is maybe the greatest man vs nature sports ever invented. 

post #74 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by tqcishark View Post
 

 

any sport can be compared to any other sport, with enough disclaimers.  As an accomplished basketball player I would not readily compare to golf.  Golf does not have a notable cardiovascular component.  Ever try shooting freethrows after running suicides?  How about hitting a golf ball after running 200 meters.  Bball is a great man vs man sport.  Golf is maybe the greatest man vs nature sports ever invented. 

 

 

Plus in golf...you don't need Hops...lol

post #75 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer 4 View Post
 

 

 

I see your point, but as some people have a knack for certain things. I do think comparing B ball isn't a great comparison, and I only say that because there is much more to golf than B ball, I played some when I was younger, and My Son was palming and Dunking when he was 13, What I'm saying is golf is more technical imho, but, I could be wrong.

 

I've never known a golfer  that was good from the get go, that's why I made the comment. but I'll take your word for it.

I don't think David was comparing basketball skills with golf skills. Just comparing being really good at something normally starting very early to being really good at something entirely different also normally starting very early.

 

Some of it is self-fulfilling because normally if we suck in the beginning we find something else to do, and if we seem to have a knack for it we continue on with it.

 

Golf may be more of an exception to that than many other sports because it's still fun to play when we suck so we might stick around long enough to improve. It's not much fun to figure out that you have no chance to hit a fastball, or that you are getting killed on every play in football, or that you are going to be 5 foot nothing and can't jump in basketball.

 

Even so I doubt if many that reach PGA Tour level didn't show a lot of promise early on.

post #76 of 117

I agree MS256 golf is the one of the few hobbies where you can stand on the same tee box as the best in the world. Im not going to be catching passes on Lambeau field but I can go to St Andrews and a good majority of the course the pros play. I think thats what makes it so fun. As far as playing with scratch players goes Ive never played with one. I have a friend who's a 1 or 2 and I feel like what separates him from all my other friends and myself is how constant his ball striking is. He is fairly long off the tee but almost never blades shots or chunks them.  I have asked him if it bothers him playing with us(double digit handicaps) and he told me he's honestly not even paying attention to how we are doing. He told me that he remembers how the rest of us do on particular shots but he's worrying about his next shot not how many it takes us to catch up. :) 

post #77 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS256 View Post
 

I don't think David was comparing basketball skills with golf skills. Just comparing being really good at something normally starting very early to being really good at something entirely different also normally starting very early.

 

Some of it is self-fulfilling because normally if we suck in the beginning we find something else to do, and if we seem to have a knack for it we continue on with it.

 

Golf may be more of an exception to that than many other sports because it's still fun to play when we suck so we might stick around long enough to improve. It's not much fun to figure out that you have no chance to hit a fastball, or that you are getting killed on every play in football, or that you are going to be 5 foot nothing and can't jump in basketball.

 

Even so I doubt if many that reach PGA Tour level didn't show a lot of promise early on.

 

 

I kinda guessed that re: what David was saying....But, what if a person was say 25 yrs old and started then. IMHO it would be easier to pick up the basics of B ball compared to golf, that's all.

 

Anyways I'm sorry that we got way OT here, it really wasn't that big of a deal...so carry on...:beer:

post #78 of 117
Thread Starter 

Am I the only one who wishes there was a way to schedule / organize playing rounds with a scratch / low handicap player? I do have this one buddy who is a scratch BUT he is not always able to play the same times as me...the reason I ask is because I always feel like I get better from playing with good players than I have from the LARGE amount of $ I have spent on lessons...I would almost rather pay for his round than pay the 75-100 bucks for a lesson...maybe I just have not met the right instructor for me. I dont know.

post #79 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by GolfGuy123 View Post
 

Am I the only one who wishes there was a way to schedule / organize playing rounds with a scratch / low handicap player? I do have this one buddy who is a scratch BUT he is not always able to play the same times as me...the reason I ask is because I always feel like I get better from playing with good players than I have from the LARGE amount of $ I have spent on lessons...I would almost rather pay for his round than pay the 75-100 bucks for a lesson...maybe I just have not met the right instructor for me. I dont know.


Don't they have regular choose up games where you live? Pretty much every course around here has them either daily or weekly and usually each captain is around scratch or better.

 

The course owners even give them better rates or other perks to get them to play in the games so there will be enough captains. There are times when there aren't enough captains and the next best available player may have to act as captain but that doesn't happen often.

 

So basically everybody that plays in the game is playing with one of the best 4 or 5 players at the course. There's even one course nearby where it's fairly likely that the captains have played on some mini tours, college and even a former Nationwide Tour player.

 

I play in all of those games every chance I get so it's more normal than not normal for me to play with that level of player. Then outside of those games my usual playing partners this year are two teaching pros that are good players.

post #80 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by GolfGuy123 View Post
 

Am I the only one who wishes there was a way to schedule / organize playing rounds with a scratch / low handicap player? I do have this one buddy who is a scratch BUT he is not always able to play the same times as me...the reason I ask is because I always feel like I get better from playing with good players than I have from the LARGE amount of $ I have spent on lessons...I would almost rather pay for his round than pay the 75-100 bucks for a lesson...maybe I just have not met the right instructor for me. I dont know.

 

I would suggest looking for a better instructor, check out this list and see if any of these guys are near by.  You can pick a few things here and there from playing with good players but to improve long term you need address your priority issues.

post #81 of 117
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvmac View Post
 

 

I would suggest looking for a better instructor, check out this list and see if any of these guys are near by.  You can pick a few things here and there from playing with good players but to improve long term you need address your priority issues.

 

 

None in my area :( Im sure this is probably common among high handicap players but my main flaw is...I have a different flaw every other week. My past instructor was good at honing in on one of my swing flaws and working with me to correct it, but it always seemed once it was corrected...a different flaw popped up or the flaw that was corrected weeks before came back...In general I have a hard time seeing / feeling how it (the full swing) all is suppose to work together. I try to keep it simple on the course and have only one swing thought but apparently that has not been working because whatever im NOT thinking of will seem to be the issue that pops up during the round. (ex. swing thought is full turn, end up making full turn but cupping left wrist in backswing...result = slice). 

 

So frustrating because I know I can be good (I know everyone says that but im serious) ("good" being a relative term and in my mind, breaking 90 consistently, maybe flirting with low 80s)...Have played a lot of 9 hole rounds at +5,+6....but NEVER an 18 hole round at +10, +12....My 18 hole rounds are usually 97-100, which includes 2 holes where I made 8's or 9's - I keep imagining "If I had just parred or bogeyed those 2 blowup holes I would have shot 89 or 90 etc...but we all know thats not how golf works. Everyone has their  "If I had..." Ugh. Rambling...just want to play better and open to any suggestions to make that happen. 

post #82 of 117
Don't take this personally golfguy but if your making 8's & 9's that you not your instructor. Your either adding up your score between holes (which is a terrible thing to do) or you are having a break down in focus (maybe due to fatigue mental or physical). I'd try to make a mental note of what is going on when you start to blowup. For me if I have a hole like that I go to the next tee and say to myself start over and eliminate the big mistake. Maybe hit an iron off the tee or even layup on a par 4 if I'm struggling with my long irons.
post #83 of 117
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakester23 View Post

Don't take this personally golfguy but if your making 8's & 9's that you not your instructor. Your either adding up your score between holes (which is a terrible thing to do) or you are having a break down in focus (maybe due to fatigue mental or physical). I'd try to make a mental note of what is going on when you start to blowup. For me if I have a hole like that I go to the next tee and say to myself start over and eliminate the big mistake. Maybe hit an iron off the tee or even layup on a par 4 if I'm struggling with my long irons.

Not taken personally...but a few things

 

1) I DEFINITELY do not "blame" my instructor or anyone else for my scores at all...my bad scores are a result of MY bad swings (bad swings which can be the result of a number of factors, usually mechanics). Maybe I should not have grouped those two statements in the same post, was just rambling a bit. However, I do think an instructor should be able to help me with WHAT is breaking down on those blow up holes. 

 

2) You are correct. I do add my score between holes...terrible thing to do and I agree. I need to stop that.

3) If by chance my bad swings are result of fatigue...it is definitely not physical. Don't want to sound arrogant about that but just being honest, I am in very good shape and have a very high endurance level from other sports (running races etc.) + my general fitness training. HOWEVER you can be right on about mental fatigue, but I think that sets in once I start getting frustrated, I can get pretty angry / frustrated on the course and I hold it all in because I do not want to be disrespectful to the other players. I know im doing the right thing by "acting" like nothing is bothering me but how am I suppose to play with all that bottled inside? I am able to go to next / tee, next shot and refocus / reset often but you can only do that so many times in a round before it stops working. 

4) Irons off the tee is actually a common part of my game. I hit my 6 iron 180-190 so I will often take that off the tee. I rarely use the driver (maybe once a round) and try not to use fairway wood too much either (maybe 3-4 times a round). And right on about laying up on a par 4...I try not to concede par too often BUT there is a few par 4's on some of the courses I play where my strategy is to be on the green in 3 and if I make the par putt great...if I two putt for bogey thats fine too. 

post #84 of 117
I used to add my score and it got in the way of just concentrating on making good swings. You will get there I was in the same boat as you a few years ago. Its a marathon not a sprint. Honestly I have had my best rounds without even knowing how I was scoring. I have a few swing thoughts while I make my practice swings then I turn my brain off.
post #85 of 117
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakester23 View Post

I used to add my score and it got in the way of just concentrating on making good swings. You will get there I was in the same boat as you a few years ago. Its a marathon not a sprint. Honestly I have had my best rounds without even knowing how I was scoring. I have a few swing thoughts while I make my practice swings then I turn my brain off.

Thanks for the encouragement and advice ;)

post #86 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by GolfGuy123 View Post
 

Im sure this is probably common among high handicap players but my main flaw is...I have a different flaw every other week. My past instructor was good at honing in on one of my swing flaws and working with me to correct it, but it always seemed once it was corrected...a different flaw popped up or the flaw that was corrected weeks before came back...In general I have a hard time seeing / feeling how it (the full swing) all is suppose to work together.

 

It's off topic, but I highly doubt that you have a different flaw every other week. Or every other month, for that matter. Virtually everyone has about the same swing every day of every week of every month. It doesn't change much.

 

Your old instructor may have given you something to work on, and it may have been different, but that's because - IMO - he was not a good instructor. He was a "grab bag" instructor. We'll focus on the same darn thing so long as it remains the priority piece, whether the student got that lesson last week or last year.

 

Do some reading on this site about the 5 Simple Keys, check out http://purestrike5sk.com/ and read the article, and begin to assess your game in terms of which KEY you want to improve. You'll get better.

post #87 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

It's not like that. I get what you're saying, but again, it's just not like that.

 

 

That's all people are saying, the bold part. @David in FL knew that Graeme didn't particularly agree when he said "good shot" and he knew not to say it again unless it was a truly great shot. But the people - including me - who are saying "be careful when saying 'good shot'" are just trying to help people avoid the little stink eye that Dave got.

 

No issues - I realize I'm saying the same thing.  But my point is I don't treat a scratch or a 20 any differently - I usually don't even know what their handicap is going in (nor care too much unless I see something cool that I want to observe).  So if saying "nice shot" to the scratch or the 20 isn't received "as intended" then I try to recognize their self imposed tension and respect it.  I know that when I'm not playing up to snuff, I feel the same way.  But usually I'll just be direct "I'm gonna withdraw and pout for a while to focus, don't mind me if I'm not too social for a bit" - and people will respect that.

 

It's a much better approach than stink eye (that's kinda rude if you think about it - essentially taking your tension and pushing it on the others) followed by venting on a golf forum.

 

But, like I said, I've only played with maybe 4 scratch's.  1 had exactly this symptom, so I stopped (but he just politely commented "no, for me that's NOT a good shot").  2 - the other one was so wound up and uptight that everybody had to stand just so, move just so and take just these turns - won't play with him every again.  3 - a guy that played within himself.  A couple drinks, trash talk, one of the guys.  4 - and another that was exceptionally social and fun and didn't care one way or the other.

 

so, I'm not seeing anything unique here:  my personal sample was 4 people and 4 very different personalities

post #88 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by rehmwa View Post
 

But usually I'll just be direct "I'm gonna withdraw and pout for a while to focus, don't mind me if I'm not too social for a bit" - and people will respect that.

 

It's a much better approach than stink eye (that's kinda rude if you think about it - essentially taking your tension and pushing it on the others) followed by venting on a golf forum.

 

I'll disagree with that. A quick glance to let someone know "nah, that wasn't a good shot" is less rude than saying "I'm gonna withdraw for and pout for a bit". The former is transient and the person gets the message. The latter will have the person or others mocking you for holes at a time.

 

Maybe you think the stink eye is a five-second long glaring into your soul or something. It's more like a quick half-second look.

post #89 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

I'll disagree with that.

 

I'll agree to disagree.  Here's why - It's a big difference to request someone to not comment because that's what "you need" vs doing something to make "them" feel like they did something wrong by trying to make them uncomfortable just to get the same response.

 

 

 

However, if you like, my quote was a huge exaggeration (I agree, that specific quote SHOULD get copious amounts of mockery) - a direct comment like "I appreciate that, but it's not really a nice shot from what I'm used to" is usually enough to get the message across without glaring. Compare it to essentially "nice shot?  are you kidding?  what the **** do you know?"

 

Most of the 'bitch session' gripes I see on these threads are a bunch of people mad because others can't read their minds and act accordingly.  Cripes, people, just speak up and stop stewing.

post #90 of 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by GolfGuy123 View Post
 

 

None in my area :( Im sure this is probably common among high handicap players but my main flaw is...I have a different flaw every other week.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

 

Do some reading on this site about the 5 Simple Keys, check out http://purestrike5sk.com/ and read the article, and begin to assess your game in terms of which KEY you want to improve. You'll get better.

 

Agree with Erik, it's the same flaw, it can just manifest itself in difference ways.  Like a fat and thin shot is the same flaw but can result in (at least) two misses.  

 

Do your best to assess what Key you need to work on, you usually can't go wrong with Keys 1 and/or 2.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rehmwa View Post
 

 

I'll agree to disagree.  Here's why - It's a big difference to request someone to not comment because that's what "you need" vs doing something to make "them" feel like they did something wrong by trying to make them uncomfortable just to get the same response.

 

I don't think the goal is to make them feel uncomfortable, it's just a quick glance, the glance might not be a conscious thing.  To me I would feel more uncomfortable if someone said they were going to be anti-social until they felt better.  I would feel I had to be more "sensitive" to their feeling throughout the round.

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