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Callaway Introduces 3 New Tour Balls - Differences Based on Clubhead Speed - Page 3

post #37 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemicu View Post
 

Here's one fact for ya - The ProV1 was and still is the best selling ball worldwide and has never used the principle of fitting to a specific swing speed or player. It has been sold on the principle that fitting a ball to swing speed is a myth.  Hmmm....so they've been wrong all the time eh? Or maybe I'm the one in denial?

The ProV1 IS the best selling ball: because Titleist has numerous tour pros on the payroll playing it. Anybody with money to burn or who wants what their favorite pro uses is just going to buy a ProV1 because they see the pros using it. I use the ProV1x currently because I have done extensive testing (in 2013 when the new version came out) and found it suited my game the best. When the 2015 ProV1 comes out I'll do the same testing and pick the ball that again will give me the best numbers, regardless of the brand.

 

What I'm saying is the ProV1 has been sold on the principal that the more money you throw into marketing, the more people will buy a product.

post #38 of 54

That sounds like the Callaway Speed Regime range of balls. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretzel View Post
 

the more money you throw into marketing, the more people will buy a product.

Titleist have a different approach - let the numbers do the talking. I've yet to see any evidence from Callaway that the alleged "performance advantage" (reading their blurb) has any validity attached to it - other than "trust us - we know what's best for you".

Titleists record speaks for itself, even if you buy into the alleged 'they pay pros to use their ball". Pros are pretty dumb, but they're not dumb enough to use a ball that isn't suitable to their game. It'll be interesting to see the take up on tour of the Speed Regime - if any.

post #39 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemicu View Post
 

That sounds like the Callaway Speed Regime range of balls. 

Titleist have a different approach - let the numbers do the talking. I've yet to see any evidence from Callaway that the alleged "performance advantage" (reading their blurb) has any validity attached to it - other than "trust us - we know what's best for you".

Titleists record speaks for itself, even if you buy into the alleged 'they pay pros to use their ball". Pros are pretty dumb, but they're not dumb enough to use a ball that isn't suitable to their game. It'll be interesting to see the take up on tour of the Speed Regime - if any.

Uh, they do pay pros to play their ball. You have to realize that I agree the ProV1 is a great golf ball: I use it myself. It's just that there is the possibility of creating a ball that has characteristics that a player with a different swingspeed would prefer over a ProV1, depending on the player and situation.

 

I'll flip this back onto you: Tell me, what performance advantage is there to using 1 ball for everything? What if (hypothetically) I have a mammoth swingspeed and the ProV1 spins far too much for me, what do I do then? Suck it up since the ProV1 is supposed to work for all swingspeeds equally well? Tell me why I would use a ProV1 in that case over a ball designed to have less spin on longer shots.

 

I'm going to do the same thing iacas did and tell you that I'm backing out of the thread after I see your response. I have worn out my patience trying to tell you the same truth in a different way numerous times, but I hope this last effort will help you see why one ball doesn't always fit all.

post #40 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemicu View Post
 

That sounds like the Callaway Speed Regime range of balls. 

Titleist have a different approach - let the numbers do the talking. I've yet to see any evidence from Callaway that the alleged "performance advantage" (reading their blurb) has any validity attached to it - other than "trust us - we know what's best for you".

Titleists record speaks for itself, even if you buy into the alleged 'they pay pros to use their ball". Pros are pretty dumb, but they're not dumb enough to use a ball that isn't suitable to their game. It'll be interesting to see the take up on tour of the Speed Regime - if any.

 

Seriously, @Nemicu, what is your point? Please answer that question.

 

Because it seems to be that you don't like how something is being marketed. In which case… Okay, so what?

 

Titleist's ball market share has been eroding for 20+ years now. They're still the top dog, but their share is declining. Why? Because Callaway, Nike, TaylorMade, etc. are eating into it. All of the top balls are pretty damn good these days. Titleist had a huge head start, and still pays a lot of pros (club pros AND touring pros) to help maintain their lead, but it's shrinking.

 

P.S. "Alleged" Ha ha ha ha ha ha. :doh:

post #41 of 54

Being someone who is busy and doesn't have tons of time and money available to go to a ball-fitting session, I like it when companies make the decision simple. I know approximately what my swing speed is, so I know where to start. I'm not locked in to any ball. I like the Pro-V1 and B330RX. It seems like the B330RXs would be a better fit and I plan to try it out sometime, however, if I can switch balls and get an extra few yards from the tee with similar feel/performance, why not give it a go? If I don't like how that ball feels/performs around the green, it's out

 

As far as the marketing of this golf ball, how else am I, a non pro, supposed to know that it exists?

post #42 of 54

@iacas - My point? The ProV1 proves that there is no need to market a ball based on swing speed selection. End of discussion. Because it is the most popular ball - and the most sold, it proves beyond any doubt that ball selection need not be the complex issue that everyone makes it out to be.

 

@Pretzel - what is the performance advantage of using one ball for everything? 

Are you kidding? Let's flip your argument - lets say you love the way the ball drives but hate the way it feels when you putt. Do you sacrifice the feel for the ball you are using the majority of the time? Why play a ball that does not suit the greatest majority of scoring potential?

Lets face it - most if not all balls max out at or around the same distance for our own swing speeds. They do not have a huge margin of difference - so why place so much emphasis on this fact? Better to have one ball that performs consistently well on all clubs - if you really did have a massive swing speed, what makes you think the Speed Regime would perform any better in spin control?

 

I'm done explaining why ball fitting around a swing speed is a bad idea and why the market leading ball manufacturer seems to agree with me.

For those still in denial, you can still buy balls in sleeves of 3 to avoid any unnecessary expenditure.

post #43 of 54

@Nemicu - Have you tried the Calloway balls? I fail to see why you are so vehemently opposed to this. Why did Titelist come out with the Pro-V1x? Why did they have a fitting event at a local course last year to help "Find the right ball for your game"? Titelist just markets in a different way, but the still market.

post #44 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemicu View Post

 

I'm done explaining why ball fitting around a swing speed is a bad idea and why the market leading ball manufacturer seems to agree with me.

For those still in denial, you can still buy balls in sleeves of 3 to avoid any unnecessary expenditure.

 

 

I just get any old ball that says "distance" on them. Did I mention that Golfsmith has Snake Eyes on sale for less than $9/dz?

 

Ball mongers on the course often have Pro V1x for $0.80 to $1.00. I don't know why they charge so much for balls they find in the water.

post #45 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemicu View Post
 

@iacas - My point? The ProV1 proves that there is no need to market a ball based on swing speed selection. End of discussion. Because it is the most popular ball - and the most sold, it proves beyond any doubt that ball selection need not be the complex issue that everyone makes it out to be.

 

That's the stupidest thing I've read today (and I'm studying some PGA material, so that's saying something…), and completely ignores virtually everything people have told you in this thread.

 

Titleist - who is losing market share - determines how a ball is to be marketed, and you're so rude as to say "end of discussion" as if you've proven any kind of point at all?!?!

 

Uhm, no.

 

<sarcasm>"Choose a ball based on your driver swing speed." Yeah, real complex there…</sarcasm>

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemicu View Post
 

Are you kidding? Let's flip your argument - lets say you love the way the ball drives but hate the way it feels when you putt. Do you sacrifice the feel for the ball you are using the majority of the time? Why play a ball that does not suit the greatest majority of scoring potential?

 

You've continually missed the point on that. Seriously, you're way off base.

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemicu View Post
 

I'm done explaining why ball fitting around a swing speed is a bad idea and why the market leading ball manufacturer seems to agree with me.

 

Actually you haven't even started.

 

P.S. Bridgestone also markets based on swing speed.

post #46 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemicu View Post
 

Here's one fact for ya - The ProV1 was and still is the best selling ball worldwide and has never used the principle of fitting to a specific swing speed or player. It has been sold on the principle that fitting a ball to swing speed is a myth.  Hmmm....so they've been wrong all the time eh? Or maybe I'm the one in denial?

 

I have no idea whether the aerodynamics bit is real or marketing hype but I do know my wife hit the ball further than she ever has in her life playing an SR1 that she found on the course.   Whether that was coincidence or not, I don't know.   But  I am absolutely postive that sales numbers don't in and of themselves prove a damn thing.  Being the best selling ball doesn't make it a better ball, let alone the best ball for everyone or for anyone actually.   It just means paying pros to play it and the marketing and hype for Titleist resonates better with the masses than the marketing for other brands.  

post #47 of 54

Would be interesting to see shot data of one person hitting all three balls on a launch monitor with various clubs.

post #48 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeph View Post
 

Would be interesting to see shot data of one person hitting all three balls on a launch monitor with various clubs.

Depending on if my course stocks these balls in their clubhouse I may end up doing that. When Titleist updates their ProV1 this coming year I'll be buying a sleeve of a number of different balls to test on a simulator. I can post all my data up on the site when I'm done, but I think I got rid of my data from when I tested the 2013 ProV1x, the 2011 ProV1x, the 2009 ProV1x, the Nike RZN, and the Bridgestone B330.

post #49 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeph View Post
 

Would be interesting to see shot data of one person hitting all three balls on a launch monitor with various clubs.


I think the best way to test this would be with one of those robots.   That way swing issues could be eliminated from the equation and clubhead speed could be set with accuracy..

post #50 of 54
Wow - this has been one of the most entertaining threads I have read in a while, which is saying a bunch because there is wonderful information and discussion throughout this site.

That being said - I have never NEVER EVER EVER seen/read someone "defend" their favorite golf ball like I have been reading here. This thread was meant, I believe, to bring attention to a new line of balls by Calloway. Nothing more. Nothing less. Apparently "Union Jack" takes great offense to ANY ball or brand other than Titleist and their precious PRO V line being discussed, uttered, or mentioned.

A few things from me on this matter: I have played a few of these new Calloway balls for the past month or so. Found some. Was given some. I can tell you this - the SR2 and SR3 are wonderful golf balls. I have probably enjoyed them almost as much as Penta TP5s and for a long time that was my ball of choice. Why do I like the SR2 and even moreso the SR3? Iron play/response... for me at least. And yes, my clubhead speed (driver) is 112-118 consistently.

Will I go out and purchase a dozen or two of these gems any time soon? No. I work at a course once or twice a week and I walk 4 to 5 rounds a week. I find far more than I ever need and have 5 gallon pales full of balls that I play and some for my 15 year old son to play as well; then I have tubs of "rocks" that I'll bang into the nearby woods while getting the grill going or blowing off some steam.

Here's what I see from Titleist, and have seen for a long while. Again - MY OPINION... At work I see 16 and 17 year old "kids" that have just recently started the game rip each others' heads off fighting over a random V1 or V1x that made its way onto the range or left in a cart. They'll discard other "Tour" balls becase "these are the best balls... ever." Of course, they hit these "best balls ever" with either 1500 dollars worth of clubs or a 50 buck hand me down set... but the point is, they MUST have the "best ball ever" to shoot their 120s and 130s. Fine by me - I'll use that discarded or lost SR2, SR3, Penta, or god forbid... Srixion TriSpeed Tour for a round or two and sweat out a 80 to 84. I doubt that I pull a putt or two, or fire at tucked flags because I am not playing The Number One Ball in Golf.

So don't tell me Titleist doesn't market. Heck, watch any golf coverage on CBS or NBC and you'll get the silky smooth voice of "Hello Friends" telling you all about their product every commercial break. Do not get me wrong - THEY MAKE A WONDERFUL collection of golf gear. Their irons? Love them! Drivers and fairway metal? Wow! Their tour balls - great... not for me for SOME reason (please don't shoot me), but they are great balls.

At some point "you" have to wonder, when it comes to their golden geese - their V1s and V1xs, if it really is the quality that makes the 30 to 20 handicappers spend their last golfing dime on these balls that they lose at rapid clips or maybe, JUST MAYBE, it is the "I want to be like Mike" mindset that led me and other kids of the 80s and early 90s to demand that our parents outfit us in the newest Jordans. I never could dunk... but damn my outside jumper looked good. It's gotta be the shoes, man!!
post #51 of 54
I'll play with just about any ball that doesn't sound like I'm hitting a marble when I'm just messing around. In any of the more serious games I play I use Pro V1s most of the time but no big deal to me if I use a Calloway, Bridgestone, Srixon (and probably some others) better balls.

Truth is it doesn't make a nickle's worth of difference in my scores anyway. Fairly often I'll play a round with an older cheaper ball and shoot one of my better scores. When I lose strokes it's about 99.999% because of bad ball striking and maybe .001% because I was playing with a sub-standard golf ball.

Best round I ever played was with an old Cougar that I found. Don't know anything about them or even if they are legal but I couldn't miss that day. a2_wink.gif
post #52 of 54

This was an interesting thread. I have played Pro V1's for years (cheers @Nemicu)... However, I recently bought a dozen SR2's as I am in my early 60's and my swing speed has slowed down to the mid 90's  Distance isn't everything to me so much as accuracy, with every club. Having said that, I did lose about 8 to 10 yards with my driver I noticed at the beginning of the year with my Pro V1's, but the accuracy was still there with all of my other clubs, especially my wedges. I got back the distance I lost with the SR2's right from the beginning, and kept the accuracy that I had with the Pro V1's. So I am telling this because in saying that I have played Pro V1's for years, I have also played Callaways for years as well, and here's my only problem, and I think it's a legitimate one. I have been able to count on my Pro V1's for years, being Pro V1's, with some improvement. When I think of Callaway, it seems that at least to me, they continually change. Just think back over the last few years, Tour iS or Tour iZ, which I like both of, then Hex Black, then Chrome, and Chrome +, now Speed Regime 1,2,3...what will it be next year? That's all I'm saying.. they are making me dizzy not sticking with a particular ball. So when/if I do find a Callaway ball I like, then it gets changed, whereas I know that Pro V1 will pretty much be Pro V1 with some improvement. I know there are those who will say 'well see, then the Pro V1 changes too, it just keeps the old name'... well, OK, so I guess I like the Titleist idea of keeping the Pro V1 model/name, you know? Like what if you were a NY Yankees fan, and next year they were the NY Cougars, and the following year they were the NY Gamers..etc...  I think when you have a good thing you build on it, and when you aren't quite sure, you just seem to rename, and repackage/remarket it...  Just MHO...  I may keep on playing the SR2's as long as they provide a translation sheet so when they rename it next year I know which model it becomes....

post #53 of 54

I would like to see a blind test where golfers are provided balls labeled Pinnacle or Top Flite but were really Pro V1's and then interview them after they play a round of golf using them.  I wonder how many would complain about the balls.

post #54 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by WUTiger View Post
 

I've been trying out the Callaway Supersofts. 

This is the ball I used when I sank my hole in one last week: a 6 iron shot from 166 yds.

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