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Those of you that think Tiger is on steroids.... - Page 4

post #55 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

You can't tell strictly from appearances if someone uses PED's.  A-Rod does not appear to look like the typical PED user, but he admittedly was / is.  Some guys use PED's to help them recover faster from workouts and injuries.  Go visit a marine base, you'll see a number of guys that are more muscular and vascular than Tiger who have never touched PED's.   Despite the common myth, you can get quite large naturally by working out hard and following a proper diet.

 

I place Tiger in the same category as I do Derek Jeter (btw, I hate the Yankees).  I believe both have so much natural ability and respect for the sport they play that neither would consider taking PED's to gain an advantage.

I think A-roid definitely looks bulked up.  But he has admitted to juicing early on, so we've always seen him this way.

post #56 of 112

I don't think he took steroids. He's put on muscle steadily since he joined the Tour, but like everyone said, it's not hard to do if you're focused on it. Plus, Tiger is in the spotlight 24/7; he was caught for cheating on his wife, but not for doing steroids? 

 

I think he's just a fitness freak, and busts his ass to be more muscular. 

post #57 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbishop15 View Post

I don't think he took steroids. He's put on muscle steadily since he joined the Tour, but like everyone said, it's not hard to do if you're focused on it. Plus, Tiger is in the spotlight 24/7; he was caught for cheating on his wife, but not for doing steroids? 

I think he's just a fitness freak, and busts his ass to be more muscular. 

True. Plus anyone pushing him steroids would definitely be making sure people know that "the number one golfer" is using them, and to purchase them from him.
post #58 of 112
If I ever have an injury that puts playing golf or running out of the question for several months, my plan for staying fit during the recovery period would be to see how much I could improve my bench press before I can use my legs again; I'd have no reason to limit my strength training goals to maintenance.

Therefore, I don't find the fact that Tiger would be bulkier in 2009 all that shocking or insidious.
post #59 of 112

The proper discussion here should be P.E Ds, not steroids exclusively. I happen to believe he ( Woods) had help, I also believe his personality make up, obsession with winning and his association ( Dr Galia) and familiarity with blood spinning, HGH etc, You don't go to the library to find out about this stuff.  Certainly Mr Woods injuries ( joints and tendons) "could" be associated with PEDs.

 

 

I guess what I am saying is I believe ANY athlete from Tiger woods to Kelly Slater that dominates against his peers over a given amount of time IN this day an age-with all the millions being handed out, with all the pressure to not only perform but also win.  It would not come as a surprise to me at all. 

 

Remember Drug tests are not like a search warrant searching for everything, they are tests for specific substance(s) that are known. The pharmacist/scientists for PEDs are way ahead of the test. They make a lot of money to make these designer drugs, including "masking" drugs to hide them or evidence of their use.  That's what Biogenisis did and Balco was all about creating a cream and steroids that were undetectable- and it was. The US department of justice did not know that " the cream" actually existed at the time of the investigation. Steroids at that point had to be injected.

 

For those of you that think otherwise, well you are entitled to your opinion, just don't be gullible that its not possible.

 

Lance, Clemons, Bonds and numerous, numerous other Athletes in a variety of sports never, ever took PEDs.....until they were caught.

post #60 of 112
Tigers had knee problems since college, when he was stick-thin, so I have my doubts there.
post #61 of 112
I can't believe how many people think he's "bulked up". When I was a senior in high school I weighed 190 lbs with a 34 inch waist size. My junior year of college I weighed 225 lbs with a 33 inch waist size. The only performance enhancers I ever used were hard work, roast beef, and mashed potatoes.
post #62 of 112

I'd be more surprised if Tiger wasn't taking PED's.  Tiger was being treated by Dr. Galea, a Canadian doctor not licensed in the US.  Dr. Galea was convicted and admitted treating athletes here in the US between 2007-2009.  He was known for treating athletes with HGH and other PED's.  Really Tiger, the doc never gave you PED's?

 

Then there's the list from Biogenesis in Florida.  It contains the names of over 100 athletes who were buying PED's from them.  NFL players, MLB players, Golfers, Tennis players and MMA fighters are on the list.  Each governing bodies of the sports mentioned were given the names of athletes on the list.  Tin Finchem said "We are not going to release the names of golfers on the list".  Golfers, plural.  

 

Which golfers seem to be the likely steroid users?  Which golfers had a sudden and unnatural change to their body type?  Jason Duffner, Colt Knost and Kevin Stadler?  Or Tiger, Lee Westwood and Rory McIlroy to name a few.

 

Is Rory following in Tigers footsteps?  Switched to Nike and moved to Florida, where Biogenesis is located incidently.  Did Tiger tutor him on Ped use?  Or at least give him the names of who to see?  Tiger and A-Rod are buddies and A-Rod admits using PED's he bought from Biogenesis.  Athletes seem to help each other out on how to use PED's properly and where to obtain them.  

 

Someone else on here mentioned the sudden transformation of Rory as proof that Tiger dodin't need PED's to get big and muscular.  I think it's more probable Tiger "helped" Rory on how to get bigger and more muscular.  

 

If it's not Tiger and maybe Rory that Finchem is trying to protect then who are they?  

post #63 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfisher View Post

The proper discussion here should be P.E Ds, not steroids exclusively. I happen to believe he ( Woods) had help, I also believe his personality make up, obsession with winning and his association ( Dr Galia) and familiarity with blood spinning, HGH etc, You don't go to the library to find out about this stuff.  Certainly Mr Woods injuries ( joints and tendons) "could" be associated with PEDs.


I guess what I am saying is I believe ANY athlete from Tiger woods to Kelly Slater that dominates against his peers over a given amount of time IN this day an age-with all the millions being handed out, with all the pressure to not only perform but also win.  It would not come as a surprise to me at all. 

Remember Drug tests are not like a search warrant searching for everything, they are tests for specific substance(s) that are known. The pharmacist/scientists for PEDs are way ahead of the test. They make a lot of money to make these designer drugs, including "masking" drugs to hide them or evidence of their use.  That's what Biogenisis did and Balco was all about creating a cream and steroids that were undetectable- and it was. The US department of justice did not know that " the cream" actually existed at the time of the investigation. Steroids at that point had to be injected.

For those of you that think otherwise, well you are entitled to your opinion, just don't be gullible that its not possible.

Lance, Clemons, Bonds and numerous, numerous other Athletes in a variety of sports never, ever took PEDs.....until they were caught.

I agree that many athletes take them, but I have serious doubts about Tiger taking them.
For one, the short game requires a lot of finesse, that I think a lot of that would be lost with strength enhancement drugs.

Most of the kids I grew up with worked out in high school and got big, but I also knew kids in college who bulked up and became "completely different". Freshman year, they were like sticks, and by sophomore year they were pretty buff. The only supplements they took were vitamins and ten or more helpings of food every day.

Bulking up does not take as much as some people on this site think. Lots of calories and heavy workouts will do that.
post #64 of 112

For those that think that Tiger is taking steroids, why would he choose to do so?  As a golfer what does he get out of it?  It's not like he's hitting the ball further than he did in '04,'05, he's actually hitting it shorter.

post #65 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudyprimo View Post
 

Is Rory following in Tigers footsteps?  Switched to Nike and moved to Florida, where Biogenesis is located incidently.  Did Tiger tutor him on Ped use?  Or at least give him the names of who to see?  Tiger and A-Rod are buddies and A-Rod admits using PED's he bought from Biogenesis.  Athletes seem to help each other out on how to use PED's properly and where to obtain them.

 

So now moving to Florida - where there are no state income taxes and LOTS of good golf weather year-round - is enough to make you a possible PED user?

 

:doh: 

post #66 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbishop15 View Post

Tigers had knee problems since college, when he was stick-thin, so I have my doubts there.


Tiger had what we call "water on the knee", minor and common for most HS teenagers. Some referred this as one of his surgery's, sticking a needle draining a little fluid is hardly surgery, his next surgery was a torn meniscus a very common in and out, same day scope of the knee, very common injury to runners, soccer, volleyball and basketball players at the rec level. Again this has often been included as one of surgeries.

post #67 of 112

The media has brainwashed people to believe that any athlete with muscle mass is a PED's user.  It's ignorant and demeaning to the individuals who get up every day, eat right, work out and build a strong healthy body.  Maybe those of you claiming Tiger used PED's just don't have the mental strength to engage in a workout regimen that would yield such results.

 

Warning: Off Topic Soapbox Rant (Click to show)

 It's disappointing to see that our society is so quick to turn on those who are successful.

Success used to be something we strived for, now the general consensus seems to be to hate on anyone that's willing to work hard and achieves success.  If you're wealthy, you're evil, unless you're willing to give up all your money in taxes to take care of the lazy.  If you're outstanding in your sport, you must be a PED's user.

The media and current government has created a generation of people that lack ambition and a strong work ethic who seem to find it equally fulfilling to trash others accomplishments rather than put in the hard work to achieve their own.

post #68 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post


I agree that many athletes take them, but I have serious doubts about Tiger taking them.
For one, the short game requires a lot of finesse, that I think a lot of that would be lost with strength enhancement drugs.

Most of the kids I grew up with worked out in high school and got big, but I also knew kids in college who bulked up and became "completely different". Freshman year, they were like sticks, and by sophomore year they were pretty buff. The only supplements they took were vitamins and ten or more helpings of food every day.

Bulking up does not take as much as some people on this site think. Lots of calories and heavy workouts will do that.


The common thinking is that you are going to get big, huge, over sized deltoid muscles, enlarged head and neck, these are all tell tale signs of anaerobic steroid use ( abuse), the designer PEDs today including some certain steroids, (there are thousands) & HGH  will allow for shorter recovery time from injury, increased endurance for training etc. Peds today are often used in conjunction with training. The misconception is someone who uses PEDs  is suddenly going to get HUGE and resemble an east german weight lifter. Steroids yes but athletes using PEDs will often looked very fit and toned. PEDs are designed for a result that the athlete desires.

 

Case in point Lance Armstrong did not get big or huge, he used a combination of blood doping, energy boosting substance EPO and testosterone to HGH, cortisone and blood-doping practices such as Blood spinning- which is what one of Doctor Gelia's known specialty.

post #69 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

So now moving to Florida - where there are no state income taxes and LOTS of good golf weather year-round - is enough to make you a possible PED user?

 

:doh: 

 

Have you seen how yoked those senior citizens are?  They probably just put it in the water.

post #70 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfisher View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post

I agree that many athletes take them, but I have serious doubts about Tiger taking them.

For one, the short game requires a lot of finesse, that I think a lot of that would be lost with strength enhancement drugs.


Most of the kids I grew up with worked out in high school and got big, but I also knew kids in college who bulked up and became "completely different". Freshman year, they were like sticks, and by sophomore year they were pretty buff. The only supplements they took were vitamins and ten or more helpings of food every day.


Bulking up does not take as much as some people on this site think. Lots of calories and heavy workouts will do that.


The common thinking is that you are going to get big, huge, over sized deltoid muscles, enlarged head and neck, these are all tell tale signs of anaerobic steroid use ( abuse), the designer PEDs today including some certain steroids, (there are thousands) & HGH  will allow for shorter recovery time from injury, increased endurance for training etc. Peds today are often used in conjunction with training. The misconception is someone who uses PEDs  is suddenly going to get HUGE and resemble an east german weight lifter. Steroids yes but athletes using PEDs will often looked very fit and toned. PEDs are designed for a result that the athlete desires.

Case in point Lance Armstrong did not get big or huge, he used a combination of blood doping, energy boosting substance EPO and testosterone to HGH, cortisone and blood-doping practices such as Blood spinning- which is what one of Doctor Gelia's known specialty.

Yes, human growth hormone is an incredible healing agent, but you only need to use it if you go well beyond normal stress levels. I'm not that convinced anyone wants to do that for golf.

Lance armstrong is actually a good example of someone who could benefit from steroids. A lot of cyclists, I was on a junior team, thought about taking them to gain mass in the legs. Fast twitch muscles help you "spin" better especially for uphill. This is why the shorter stocky guys are at an advantage for uphill. Tall is better for everything else.

Many of the tall thin kids thought, if only I had huge leg muscles and the same frame, that is, have 36" thighs and weigh 130 pounds at 6'2". they would be the ultimate cyclists.

Lance probably fell victim to this, plus he recovered from cancer and might have needed it just to stay strong. Blood doping, is also a common problem, not just with him. He just got caught.

For simple motions that require extreme performance, it makes sense to use steroids and other PED, but golf uses every muscle in the body in a tightly coordinated manner. It seems like even caffeine could throw you off.
post #71 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfisher View Post
 


The common thinking is that you are going to get big, huge, over sized deltoid muscles, enlarged head and neck, these are all tell tale signs of anaerobic steroid use ( abuse), the designer PEDs today including some certain steroids, (there are thousands) & HGH  will allow for shorter recovery time from injury, increased endurance for training etc. Peds today are often used in conjunction with training. The misconception is someone who uses PEDs  is suddenly going to get HUGE and resemble an east german weight lifter. Steroids yes but athletes using PEDs will often looked very fit and toned. PEDs are designed for a result that the athlete desires.

 

Case in point Lance Armstrong did not get big or huge, he used a combination of blood doping, energy boosting substance EPO and testosterone to HGH, cortisone and blood-doping practices such as Blood spinning- which is what one of Doctor Gelia's known specialty.


I agree with you in one respect. I am well beyond being shocked or surprised at anything an athlete or celebrity does.

 

Past that it seems you are getting into guilt by association and beyond to a point where it's more like guilt because the technology is there.

 

At least you aren't going into the ridiculous notion that some others have that they are guilty because they are "bulked up" (which is a joke).

post #72 of 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by MS256 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfisher View Post



I agree with you in one respect. I am well beyond being shocked or surprised at anything an athlete or celebrity does.

Past that it seems you are getting into guilt by association and beyond to a point where it's more like guilt because the technology is there.

At least you aren't going into the ridiculous notion that some others have that they are guilty because they are "bulked up" (which is a joke).

True, taken to an extreme it's a joke.

However, bigger muscles are stronger. Smaller muscles are usually weaker. Athletes have the ability to develop sport specific muscles without the other ones, unless it's for body balance. Steroids placed locally, could probably enhance your performance. I doubt this technology is fine tuned enough to create better coordination without some other side effect.

I just can't see golf which requires many different levels of coordination benefitting from any single/multiple stimulant, unless it was so fine tuned and injected locally on demand in the exact dosage needed to be beneficial.

We are all bounded by the laws of physiology. a2_wink.gif
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