Wisguy's Flameout

**Wisguy** · December 28, 2013

Unless you're in 8th grade right now, the bold is a blatant lie. Do tell us again your thoughts on soccer, or women, and a variety of other topics about which you've been incredibly rude.

Nonsense. I've pissed off a few people here because I have voiced strong opinions on certain subjects and several people have disliked what I said not because I was unfair, inaccurate, made personal attacks or used profanity (which I refrain from doing), but because they were unable to come up with better, more intelligent responses and their egos were too inflated to admit someone else had a better point. I'm engaging in a discussion for the purpose of discourse, not for the purpose of feeling better about myself by putting others down. That's not being rude. If someone makes a dumb and inaccurate point, am I supposed to pretend that he's right? Are you "rude" if you say "No" when on a 140 yard hole, your playing partner's second putt comes up 5 feet short and he says "That's a par for me, right?" Claiming I'm lying is not just ironically being completely rude, but it's altogether inaccurate - in fact, if one of the two of us is making dishonest statements, it is not me. I was surprised you made such a comment and waited a few days to respond, figuring you were just having a bad day and would come back and edit or delete your comment when you were in a more sensible frame of mind, but I guess that's not going to happen.

There are more than a few people on this site who engage in name calling (which I do not do). Why are you getting on my case but you don't bother with people engaging in juvenile conduct that surely must break the site rules?

Erik, we both know why. You're still harboring major resentment against me because I made two comments months ago that really set you off and enraged you and you simply cannot let it go. First, I said something to you that produced a reaction in you roughly the same as the reaction you'd cause in a more extreme member of the Taliban if you told him you just wiped your arse on pages torn out his holy book. I said, very accurately, that take away the history and tradition thing, and The Old Course at St. Andrews is a dull, unattractive, and rather poorly maintained course (your obsessive adoration blinded you but there were bare patches on at least one green at last summer's British Open). I have no idea why you are so obsessed with St. Andrews, but other than some soccer hooligans who are looking to cause harm to their rival fans (and even that may be more about being violent than being a passionate fan), I don't think I've ever heard of anyone being as obsessed about any aspect of a sport as you are about St. Andrews. I simply cannot fathom how anyone could be so blindly passionate about a golf course. I question if you'd react that strongly to someone besmirching your wife's virtue.

You accuse me of being "rude" about women. I believe the specific comment to which you are referring was a comment I made in The Grill Room forum grousing about women's haircuts and it was the male equivalent of a woman griping about how men never want to stop and ask for directions - hardly egregious. I think your eager participation in a thread objectifying women (the "Beautiful Women" thread - exactly how many hot babe photos did you post in there Erik, a dozen, two dozen, more?), your starting a "Michelle Wie has Man Hands" thread, or your eagerness to disparage women as athletes in practically every LPGA thread in which you've posted in the past half year or more shows you to be a hypocrite for commenting about anyone else being a chauvinist.

And that brings me to the second comment I made that pissed you off so badly so many months ago: I said that the contempt you voice for LPGA players is fueled in large part by the fact that you are jealous of and resentful toward golfers who you feel have skills and perhaps a work ethic that are inferior to yours (I have no idea if you are 100% correct or altogether delusional), yet those women get to make their living playing golf on a professional tour and you do not. To that second thought, I'll add the following: even though I'm sure there's more drudgery involved in being a golf pro than may be readily apparent, you're nonetheless earning a living doing your favorite activity/hobby. Most people don't like many, if any, aspects of their jobs and would tell you to open your eyes to the real world and quit whining about not having your every last dream come true.

So go ahead, delete this post and ban me from the site. Or surprise me and be man enough to admit that there's more than a little truth to what I've said.

***iacas*** · December 28, 2013

I've pissed off a few people here because I have voiced strong opinions on certain subjects and several people have disliked what I said not because I was unfair, inaccurate, made personal attacks or used profanity (which I refrain from doing), but because they were unable to come up with better, more intelligent responses and their egos were too inflated to admit someone else had a better point.

You've pissed off people here because you're a misogynist jerk who thinks that your opinion is the only one that's right. When people responded with valid points, you said things like "you don't get it" and "Or maybe I really, really dislike every single solitary thing about adults playing and/or watching adult soccer."

Yep, not exactly an "intelligent response" from someone without an "inflated ego."

That's not being rude.

This is:

Sheeesh, I have to wonder, are some of you secretly wearing little tricolor French flag bikini briefs?

And that's just on the "sports teams you hate" thread. Let's not start on your feelings about women, tipping, hairstyles, clothing, and several other topics.

Claiming I'm lying is not just ironically being completely rude, but it's altogether inaccurate - in fact, if one of the two of us is making dishonest statements, it is not me. I was surprised you made such a comment and waited a few days to respond, figuring you were just having a bad day and would come back and edit or delete your comment when you were in a more sensible frame of mind, but I guess that's not going to happen.

Let's take a look at what you said originally, the thing to which I responded:

No, not really. I made a rather general statement. Club Ho, in his eagerness to assert what a terrific guy he is by putting someone else down (something I confess I used to do but discontinued around the middle of 9th grade), jumped to conclusions and chose to attribute to me a very narrow, specific interpretation of my words, even though there was no basis for so doing, in order to support his feeble attempts to claim I am an annoying fool.

You've "put someone else down" repeatedly on this site. It's your entire MO. It's woven into the fabric of virtually every post you make here. In other words, you're lying. You "discontinued" putting people down around the middle of ninth grade, yet you continue to do so with almost every post.

There are more than a few people on this site who engage in name calling (which I do not do). Why are you getting on my case but you don't bother with people engaging in juvenile conduct that surely must break the site rules?

You've engaged in plenty of juvenile conduct, and though you've not used the form "You are a ___(name)_____" you've called people names. You've called them ignorant. You've called them sissies, uneducated, cheap, etc.

Erik, we both know why. You're still harboring major resentment against me because I made two comments months ago that really set you off and enraged you and you simply cannot let it go.

You're wrong if you think I was enraged by anything said on this site. And really, the Taliban? Grow up dude.

I said, very accurately, that take away the history and tradition thing, and The Old Course at St. Andrews is a dull, unattractive, and rather poorly maintained course (your obsessive adoration blinded you but there were bare patches on at least one green at last summer's British Open).

You're still wrong about how the Old Course is poorly maintained. You're wrong about bare patches. And you're ignorant to it having never been there. This is a continuing issue with you - your opinions are "right" and everyone else's are "wrong" despite the fact that opinions can't be right or wrong.

I wasn't at all enraged by anything you said. I simply wrote you off as a moron. An imbecile. An idiot.

I have no idea why you are so obsessed with St. Andrews

I'm not obsessed (are you going for a record on how many things you can get wrong in one post?), but unlike you, I've at least been there and played it.

And that brings me to the second comment I made that pissed you off so badly so many months ago: I said that the contempt you voice for LPGA players is fueled in large part by the fact that you are jealous of and resentful toward golfers who you feel have skills and perhaps a work ethic that are inferior to yours

Wrong again.

To that second thought, I'll add the following: even though I'm sure there's more drudgery involved in being a golf pro than may be readily apparent, you're nonetheless earning a living doing your favorite activity/hobby. Most people don't like many, if any, aspects of their jobs and would tell you to open your eyes to the real world and quit whining about not having your every last dream come true.

I'm quite happy with my job and role in life. So I'm not sure where that's coming from, but thanks.

So go ahead, delete this post and ban me from the site. Or surprise me and be man enough to admit that there's more than a little truth to what I've said.

And wrong for the final time in your post. What truth? Suffice to say I know myself better than you know me. I know when I'm upset. You're an idiot and an asshat, and while we will ban members for the latter, it takes even more asshattery than you've managed to offer at this point. But keep going… I'm sure you'll get there eventually if you work hard enough. The first step will be a trip to the Penalty Box, which you've not even experienced yet.

You are, however, now restricted from this thread. Your entire post was a personal attack with mistruths and did not even remotely touch on the topic. It all started with your lie - that you don't "put someone else down."

Guess what, @Wisguy - I couldn't care much less about you or your (unfounded, ancient) opinions. Aside from the time I occasionally take to respond to your posts, I don't think about you. Within about ten seconds of hitting submit on this post, I will stop thinking about you once again, until your next stupid post.

***iacas*** · December 28, 2013

Your rant was off topic, so I moved it to its own thread.

**Phil McGleno** · December 28, 2013

@Wisguy -Other people wont say it so I will- You are a ****ing joke of a man and one of the most easily upset and easily angered people I have ever met. ONe sentence responses result in massive posts from you that do nothing but piss on the original person.- **** off @Wisguy .

**Ernest Jones** · December 28, 2013

Quote:

I wasn't at all enraged by anything you said. I simply wrote you off as a moron. An imbecile. An idiot.

That's my favorite line in this thread.

**teed off** · December 28, 2013

Please don't feed the Trolls.....

**Ernest Jones** · December 28, 2013

Please don't feed the Trolls.....

I wouldn't really classify @Wisguy as a troll, he's more of a prick with serious anger issues and a penchant for verbosity. Pretty unpleasant fellow but he can be amusing from a safe distance, and by safe I mean outside of spittle range. I know that I, for one, have been amused by this thread.

**Wisguy** · December 28, 2013

Eric, your juvenile name-calling in lieu of actually addressing the points I made demonstrates clearly that I was correct. My response to your comment was direct, on point, and explained precisely with examples why you were wrong. You responded with the maturity of a 13 year old boy on a video game website with conclusory statements, no more. In fact, your post said little more than the oft-heard playground chant "IKNOWYOUAREBUTWHATAMI? ~~"IKNOWYOUAREBUTWHATAMI?" . Your post, childish personal attacks and all, was a rant.

My comments were far from being "absurd" or a "random rant." I was addressing your completely unjustified and quite frankly defamatory accusation that I was a liar. Maybe people call you a liar all the time and you've grown immune to such statements, but I cannot recall the last time a rational person called me a liar and I take great offense at such an unfounded and derogatory accusation.

Some newbie member posted about recently playing at St. Andrews and being disappointed and you threw a fit, disagreeing strongly with him, as I knew you would do when I first saw the title to his thread. But no, I'm just making things up and being ignorant. And keep kicking that dead horse about how awful the LPGA players are. Golf Digest came out with their list of best golf pros in the US a few months ago, a list that contained not just a few names but the names of hundreds of golf pros (i.e. not a tremendously selective list). Correct me if I'm wrong, but your name was not on it, was it? Restating contemptuously for the fourteenth time that the LPGA pros don't compare statistically with the male pros isn't going to get you on that list and isn't going to get you your PGA Tour card, is it?

Unlike some of the other people on this website (and the last two posts you've exchanged with me show that you're in that camp), I'm honest and mature enough to admit when I'm wrong or someone else has made a better argument. I understand that everyone makes mistakes. It doesn't happen often and hasn't happened much here, but if someone does point out major flaws in my arguments, I'd much rather admit that I was wrong than be thought an idiot for continuing to defend an untenable position.

In fact, I'll even concede some degree of error now. I haven't read my post on soccer for many months and forgot what exactly I said, as some moderator (I believe Jamo), locked me out of that thread and at least one or two others in which he found himself unable to respond to points I was making and threw a hissy fit, so I couldn't read it. But I logged off and went back and read that post and I'll concede that I probably should not have said that all soccer fans are less bright than the typical Bears fan (who I said are dumb for blaming their quarterback for playing poorly when he's injured and then blaming him for being gutless when he can no longer play because of those injuries). I probably did have a bad day when I wrote that - I should have criticized only the sport, not its fans, even though I was anticipating arguments (lame ones at that) that I've heard many times before from soccer fans. However, Erik, you couldn't even come up with the one thing that I said that was arguably inappropriate. The French bikini brief comment was funny, clearly was not intended to be a serious or spiteful attack against anyone, and it's rarely, if ever, inappropriate to mock the French. A single, only arguably excessively critical post does not make me a "blatant liar." However, I will defend the rest of my comments in that thread by saying the following: a) unlike many of the other people posting on that thread, I actually explained and very adequately justified my opinions; and b) the title of the post was "Sports Teams You Absolutely Hate" - it wasn't "Sports teams that cause you to have slightly-less-than-super-duper-pleasant, happy-happy feelings." If you don't like people expressing strong opinions, then stay out of threads that clearly state in their titles that they are inviting all posters to make them.

I have a relatively low tolerance for fools and foolishness. Make intelligent, fair, and reasonable comments and we won't have any issues. The problem is that when I do explain exactly why the points I am making are correct, I get labeled either a jerk because I am right or else people say I am too verbose (which sometimes is true). If I'm so damn wrong, then make a more intelligent argument. If you can't, then reassess who is correct and who is not. Be mad at yourself for being mistaken, not at me for pointing out that fact.

At this point, I don't anticipate that I'll receive any comments in response that deserve my further time or effort. I'm dealing with an ego that cannot admit he is wrong, plus a few follower-types that have to tag on their "ME TOO!!!" comments. I've made my arguments, provided logical reasons and examples to support them, and I think there's no point in paying any further attention to this thread, which clearly was created with spiteful, juvenile motivation (see its title). Contrary to your contention, the significant majority of my posts here have been solid, constructive and worthwhile contributions to discussions on the sport of golf and when I've been able to provide a word of help or assistance to those seeking it, I have tried to help others (if I was such a jerk as you contend, why would I condemn other members for attacking new members who claim to be mere teenagers?). This site has grown tiresome and I think I'll take a bit of a break from the Sand Trap. The several angry types here making posts far more influenced by ego than reason, plus the incessant whining about slow play, have soured me on the sport rather than made me more eager to play it. There is a foot of snow on the ground and I'm going to forget about golf for a few months.

***iacas*** · December 28, 2013

Did you really expect me to read all of that? Seriously?

**Phil McGleno** · December 28, 2013

I dont know how you do it erik.-Dealing with these crazy people. What ghastly Horrible conditions! [VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A--3uLuSwGE[/VIDEO]

**Valleygolfer** · December 28, 2013

Wisguy- Are you related to my exwife?

**Lihu** · December 28, 2013

I dont know how you do it erik.-Dealing with these crazy people. What ghastly Horrible conditions! [VIDEO]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A--3uLuSwGE[/VIDEO]

Yeah, ghastly indeed, kind of like being in Disneyworld as a 7 year old with an unlimited budget for tasty treats. Looks nice, and I just read a book about St. Andrews.

**tristanhilton85** · December 29, 2013

I said, very accurately, that take away the history and tradition thing, and The Old Course at St. Andrews is a dull, unattractive, and rather poorly maintained course (your obsessive adoration blinded you but there were bare patches on at least one green at last summer's British Open). I have no idea why you are so obsessed with St. Andrews, but other than some soccer hooligans who are looking to cause harm to their rival fans (and even that may be more about being violent than being a passionate fan), I don't think I've ever heard of anyone being as obsessed about any aspect of a sport as you are about St. Andrews. I simply cannot fathom how anyone could be so blindly passionate about a golf course. I question if you'd react that strongly to someone besmirching your wife's virtue.

The Open Championship was at Muirfield last year, not St. Andrews. And no, there weren't "bare patches" on the green, and you were inaccurate saying that the course was dull, unattractive and poorly maintained.

**mvmac** · December 29, 2013

This site has grown tiresome and I think I'll take a bit of a break from the Sand Trap.

Good idea

**Phil McGleno** · December 29, 2013

I should buy a lottery ticket!-Except that this did not require any guessing at all-Was bound to come true.[quote name="Phil McGleno" url="/t/71712/wisguys-flameout#post_933737"] @Wisguy -Other people wont say it so I will- ONe sentence responses result in massive posts from you that do nothing but piss on the original person.-[/quote]

**bplewis24** · December 29, 2013

I wouldn't really classify @Wisguy as a troll, he's more of a prick with serious anger issues and a penchant for verbosity. Pretty unpleasant fellow but he can be amusing from a safe distance, and by safe I mean outside of spittle range. I know that I, for one, have been amused by this thread.

I guess I am the only person that disagrees with the consensus here?

It is of little concern to me, but let me just be on the record with my dissent.

Carry on...

**Golfingdad** · December 29, 2013

I wouldn't really classify @Wisguy as a troll, he's more of a prick with serious anger issues and a penchant for verbosity. Pretty unpleasant fellow but he can be amusing from a safe distance, and by safe I mean outside of spittle range. I know that I, for one, have been amused by this thread.

I guess I am the only person that disagrees with the consensus here?

It is of little concern to me, but let me just be on the record with my dissent.

Carry on...

I guess it depends on which part of Ernie's post you disagree with.

- Ernie's certainly right that Wisguy is not a troll.

- Prick? Yeah, he comes across that way to me too. Phan-like in that his opinions are passed off as fact or gospel. He doesn't say "I don't like soccer," but rather "soccer is the dumbest sport around, played and watched by imbeciles." It's hard to think a guy who takes his opinion to those lengths is not a prick.

- Serious anger issues? I don't see that. His posts and responses seem like they're coming from a calm person to me. Super strong "opinions," but he doesn't seem angry to me.

- Penchant for verbosity? Nobody could disagree with that. I know once I see his name that I'm going to have to scroll the mouse to get to the end of the post. ;)

- Unpleasant fellow? At times certainly, but aren't we all? I think this view may be skewed because he only seems interested in posting controversial things. He doesn't seem to even come to TST for swing theory stuff, or music, or anything that's just "fun."

-Amusing from a safe distance? Yeah, I agree with that. I don't usually have much desire to converse with him, but it's sometimes fun to watch from the outside.

-----------------------

For the record, I think the last thing I posted in regards to him was actually in his defense. it was in a thread about slow play or something like that and somebody else (a newbie, I think) misunderstood his comment and jumped on him.

**Ernest Jones** · December 30, 2013

I guess I am the only person that disagrees with the consensus here? It is of little concern to me, but let me just be on the record with my dissent. Carry on...

Perhaps I should have prefaced my comment with an IMO. I also think it's incredibly lame that he uses the fact that nobody bothers to retort to his wall of texts rants with an equally verbose retort as some kind of evidence of his own superiority. I can't speak for others but I don't bother because I couldn't be bothered . It's just as satisfying, perhaps more so, to simply roll my eyes and move on. I may occasional mock him when he is being particularly ass-hattish but that is pretty much the extent of the degree of attention that the ******* guy warrants. Plus, I really don't care for the whole internet tough guy persona, it's weak sauce and I'm sure he doesn't act like that in real life or he'd be spending an inordinate amount of time picking up his teeth. But whatever...I hear what you're saying.

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