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What's Preventing You From Playing Scratch Golf? - Page 6

post #91 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
 

 

Not really.......the term "Scratch Golfer" is specifically defined, and has nothing to do with how a handicap is calculated.  It's simply a somewhat arbitrary term used to define a golfer of a certain skill level.

 

Scratch Golfer

 

A "scratch golfer" is a player who can play to a Course Handicap of zero on any and all rated golf courses.

 

 

Also, I'd argue that the skill set needed to play at that level is the same, regardless of where and individual lives and how their handicap (if they even have one) is calculated.


That's my point in a way. a scratch golfer plays 3-5 strokes over par and finds his tamper zone at 4-6 strokes over par. he can go under scratch handicap by plating 75 strokes.

 

I mean I've never seen that famous 72 SSS and 113 slope course. Nothing is that dull, really.

 

We always have courses at 73.x sss minimum and at least 135-140 slope;

 

If you calculate the stroke average of a scratch golfer he must be close to 82.

 

For example on my local courses I need only play 81 for my handicap (6 index gives 9 handicap). At 83 I dont go up. (2 shots) At 80 or with a ZTA adjustement I go down fast.

 

My stroke average is just under +16. I count all rounds even the worst where I "give up" shots mentally. I'm a bogey player with a 6 index. lol

post #92 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubble View Post
 

If you calculate the stroke average of a scratch golfer he must be close to 82.

 

There's too much wrong in your post to address it all, but this struck me as the most wrong, and thus the most worthy of comment.

 

The stroke average of a scratch golfer is nowhere near 82. I'd guess for most it's under 75. Hell my stroke average as a 1.8 was about 75.

 

http://lakeviewcc.com (slope was 139, course rating 72.4).

 

And a 6.0 index playing off 9 is not even possible - not with the USGA's formula:

 

Quote:
With a USGA Handicap Index® of 6.0 and a Slope Rating® of 155,

Your Course Handicap is: 8
post #93 of 205

here we take to account the scratch score standard of a course.

 

 

so the operation is = Handicap = INDEX x SLOPE / 113 + SSS - Par

 

so a 140 slope and 73.1 sss gives a 6 index a 9 handicap strokes.

post #94 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubble View Post
 

here we take to account the scratch score standard of a course.

 

Most of the golfers with whom you're talking follow the USGA standard. And if you use the SSS in determining the index, it makes no sense to also include it in the calculation of the course handicap.

post #95 of 205
Pressure, always choking at the end. And putting
post #96 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubble View Post
 


That's my point in a way. a scratch golfer plays 3-5 strokes over par and finds his tamper zone at 4-6 strokes over par. he can go under scratch handicap by plating 75 strokes.

 

I mean I've never seen that famous 72 SSS and 113 slope course. Nothing is that dull, really.

 

We always have courses at 73.x sss minimum and at least 135-140 slope;

 

If you calculate the stroke average of a scratch golfer he must be close to 82.

 

For example on my local courses I need only play 81 for my handicap (6 index gives 9 handicap). At 83 I dont go up. (2 shots) At 80 or with a ZTA adjustement I go down fast.

 

My stroke average is just under +16. I count all rounds even the worst where I "give up" shots mentally. I'm a bogey player with a 6 index. lol


My current stroke average is 82.2, Most of my posted rounds are at 135-142 slope also.

post #97 of 205

I see pros analyzing shots way more than the average recreational golfer.  And why not...if I'm paying bills with golf shots, I'm taking as much time as I need

post #98 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by march11934 View Post
 

I agree, I guess ability encompasses so many things. Physical, mental, etc. I was trying to build on your analogy about the biking. From a billiards perspective there really is very little physical aspect, yet consistency is one of the greatest aspects of a champion billiard player. Considering a golf swing has a combination of generating extreme force and mental control of doing it consistently. Thoughts?

Agreed.  Being able to control your body without thinking about it is an ability unto itself.  It has been called being in the "zone" by a few authors.  Elite athletes, golfers included, can get into that zone more easily.  Whether that is from natural ability or training, it still is a level they can get to more easily than the average athlete.

post #99 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

 

I honestly believe that the average 15 hcp is closer to 6 than the 6 is to scratch.

 

I personally agree with this, as I've come down from a 12-13 to an 8.5 over the past couple years (still don't have an official cap, but I think I started keeping track of my unofficial cap with a phone app in 2012, maybe 2011?).  I don't feel a ton better now than I did then, and I could see getting down to around a 6 with a good bit of tightening but no monster leaps in ball striking or consistency.  But averaging near par seems light years away.

 

But I (ever so humbly!) am a good natural athlete.  Obviously I'm not a super natural at golf given I've been playing regularly (though not as much as many, or as I'd like, more like 30-40 rounds/year with a practice session or three most weeks) for 5-6 years and am still an 8.5.  But in general I've got a good base of athletic ability.  I know a lot of guys who with my level of play and practice time would have no chance of getting into single digits.  For those guys to get down into the 6-8 range it would probably require the level of dedication it would require for me to get down to the sub-4 or sub-3 range.

 

So let's say I agree with you with the stipulation that we're only considering players with the natural ability to get down to scratch with a very intense but not totally undoable level of dedication of time and money.  I'm not sure that includes me.  I've learned that the once per weekend warrior plus regular but not super intensive practice level of dedication might top me out at 5-6 eventually, and I'm not sure I'll ever have the time to find out if I could get to scratch playing 3-4 times per week with another 2-3 hour+ practice sessions.

post #100 of 205

Scratch is a fickle thing........

 

 

The first time I got there was playing difficult tees rated 75.1CR/141 slope.................with a 77 scoring average.   Yes, it was a hard course, but I never got to ZERO playing shorter easier courses with easier ratings.  The rating and how well you can play to that rating is the difference.  I think it will be more difficult getting to scratch playing an easier rated course. The CR isn't the almighty equalizer as you might think......(as it is supposed to be) .IMO

 

At that same course playing the forward tees rated 72.5/137slope.....my best index was around 1.6.

post #101 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckeyeNut View Post
 

Scratch is a fickle thing........

 

 

The first time I got there was playing difficult tees rated 75.1CR/141 slope.................with a 77 scoring average.   Yes, it was a hard course, but I never got to ZERO playing shorter easier courses with easier ratings.  The rating and how well you can play to that rating is the difference.  I think it will be more difficult getting to scratch playing an easier rated course. The CR isn't the almighty equalizer as you might think......(as it is supposed to be) .IMO

 

At that same course playing the forward tees rated 72.5/137slope.....my best index was around 1.6.


I want to believe this but I'm not scoring well when I play from tougher tees now, I usually play a slope of at least 135-142 and I'm just not getting there, as an experiment I decided to play the forward tees (not ladies) 70.4 131 and shot 4 over at 4.8. I'm seriously thinking my course rates out tougher than where they have it which is high but I think it may be 3 or 4 more slope points higher, the club champ I overheard once say when the wind is up the course plays as hard as Spyglass, now I'll be first to admit I have never played Spyglass and I know how tough it is but this guy isn't known for being a BS'er really either. I'll pm you my ghin  if you would like to see what I mean.

post #102 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckeyeNut View Post
 

Scratch is a fickle thing........

 

 

The first time I got there was playing difficult tees rated 75.1CR/141 slope.................with a 77 scoring average.   Yes, it was a hard course, but I never got to ZERO playing shorter easier courses with easier ratings.  The rating and how well you can play to that rating is the difference.  I think it will be more difficult getting to scratch playing an easier rated course. The CR isn't the almighty equalizer as you might think......(as it is supposed to be) .IMO

 

At that same course playing the forward tees rated 72.5/137slope.....my best index was around 1.6.

 

I agree.

 

My scoring average right now is 79.9 and I'm struggling to get under 5.5 for my index.  I don't play very many really hard courses and my "home" course is rated at 71.1/121 from 6,600 yds.  Not a lay down, but certainly not a hard course.  I've got to shoot 77 for a 5.5 differential and a 76 to get it under 5.  If my only goal was to lower my hcp index, I'd seriously consider backing up to the tips that are rated at 73.0.  I don't play a full 2 strokes worse on average from the tips, but at 7,000+ yards, I'm hitting a lot of hybrids into par 4's, and that just doesn't make for a lot of fun.

post #103 of 205

For me, the biggest challenge getting to scratch from where my handicap is now is hitting fairways with the driver.  Even though I hit the driver long, it is by far the weakest club in my bag.  Why is it the weakest?  Well, like Mike said, the 5SK keys are what we can look at when asking the question and I'm certainly weak in a couple of them.

 

Key #1 - Steady Head

Got it covered pretty much.  Can get a little sloppy at times but for the most part, I'm OK here.

 

Key #2 - Weight Forward

I can get my weight forward a bit more but it's certainly more forward than most people I play with and enough forward to have consistent, crisp contact with the irons. The result are my divots happening after the ball is gone.

 

Key #3 - Flat Left Wrist

Can be a bit better which leads to...

 

Key #4 - Diagonal Sweet Spot Path

This is the one key that I struggle to be consistent with the absolute most.  My diagonal sweet spot path tends to be slightly above the desired sweet spot position/line and I can get away with it on my iron shots.  However, with the driver, it kills me.  Considering the driver is much longer than my irons, my diagonal sweet spot path being slightly over the line creates ball striking issues when the path isn't matching my face properly (Key #5).  There are days when my sweet spot path is great and the driver is on and on those days, I'm low 70s.  Unfortunately however, I haven't been able to harness the sweet spot path consistently which, I feel, is a huge factor in keeping me from achieving the topic of this post.  In looking at my swing on numerous occasions on video, I have a huge flaw in my wrist action from A3, to A4, A5 which leads to a weak Key #3 in my game.  All things that can be addressed and what I plan on addressing this year.

 

Key #5 - Club Face Control

I get shaky with my clubface control once I can't harness my diagonal sweet spot path; creating, two way misses.  Key#4 is absolutely the "key" pun intended to get me to get lower with the handicap.

post #104 of 205

Not having enough time to play or practice. I don't honestly know how far i'd get if I did have the time, but at my best i've shot 39 for 9 holes and 86 for 18. Never have kept an official cap due to lack of even being able to play enough to establish one. I want to, bad, but life just aint havin that right now. Someday we'll see...

post #105 of 205

I play in the low 80's on a fairly easy municipal course, in the summer, when I've been playing 3 or 4 times a week and am in a groove. I'm  a high school teacher with summers off. I'm 55 years old and have been playing seriously for 7 or 8 years. I've been playing around a little bit since I was a kid. 

I usually hit a drive 250-270 fairly straight-I'll hit the fairway 3 out of 4, so I can save 1 or 2 strokes by driving straighter and avoiding the sideways shot.

I expect to hit the green from 180 or 190 and in 75% of the time..a 3 hybrid or less.... leaving a 2 putt or an up and down from the fringe. I am  50/50 from 200- 210 with a 3-wood ...so I can save 1 or 2 strokes from there..the long approaches.

My sand game is pretty good - up and down about 50%, my chipping is pretty good - up and down from 20 or 30 yards 50%- I can save 1  or 2 strokes there. I could save a few strokes by placing my 50-160 yard shots a 1 putt away instead of 2 putts away, this could happen 3 or 4 times a round.

 

I can also avoid 3 putts, whether from leaving long putts closer or by not missing 3-5 footers. This could be a saving of another 2 or 3 strokes.

 

TOTALS

 

2 from driving

2 from long approaches...... 210- 160 yards

2 from chipping

3 from .......120- 30 yards and in

3 from avoiding 3 putts

 

12 strokes puts me at 70 instead of 82

 

 

post #106 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryleal View Post
 

I play in the low 80's on a fairly easy municipal course, in the summer, when I've been playing 3 or 4 times a week and am in a groove. I'm  a high school teacher with summers off. I'm 55 years old and have been playing seriously for 7 or 8 years. I've been playing around a little bit since I was a kid. 

I usually hit a drive 250-270 fairly straight-I'll hit the fairway 3 out of 4, so I can save 1 or 2 strokes by driving straighter and avoiding the sideways shot.

I expect to hit the green from 180 or 190 and in 75% of the time..a 3 hybrid or less.... leaving a 2 putt or an up and down from the fringe. I am  50/50 from 200- 210 with a 3-wood ...so I can save 1 or 2 strokes from there..the long approaches.

My sand game is pretty good - up and down about 50%, my chipping is pretty good - up and down from 20 or 30 yards 50%- I can save 1  or 2 strokes there. I could save a few strokes by placing my 50-160 yard shots a 1 putt away instead of 2 putts away, this could happen 3 or 4 times a round.

 

I can also avoid 3 putts, whether from leaving long putts closer or by not missing 3-5 footers. This could be a saving of another 2 or 3 strokes.

 

TOTALS

 

2 from driving

2 from long approaches...... 210- 160 yards

2 from chipping

3 from .......120- 30 yards and in

3 from avoiding 3 putts

 

12 strokes puts me at 70 instead of 82

 

 

 

Congratulations on leading the PGA tour in GIR from 175-200 yds out last year.  BTW, Tiger Woods hit 58% of the greens from that distance last year so you're rockin' it!

 

50% up and down scrambling from 20-30 yards would only get you T109 on the tour for 2013, so you probably have some work to do there.     ;-)

 

 

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to pick, but it's a good example of how most of us don't have a very clear understanding of where our opportunities lie, and what it really takes to play at that level.

post #107 of 205

I just assume the ignorance comes from people not keeping accurate stats. I ended 2013 at 38.6% GIR.

post #108 of 205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post
 

I just assume the ignorance comes from people not keeping accurate stats. I ended 2013 at 38.6% GIR.


For me, it's just that I am finally getting consistent enough to start keeping stats. I assume that many other people have the same issue as me.

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