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Playing a pro - Page 2

post #19 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by hopefulhacker View Post

I think you've hit the nail on the head there Golfingdad apart for the change in the Pro's HC. 

I think the variance would be a lot less. 

Depending on what type of Pro we are talking about as well, a Tour Pro's variance would be minimal. 

 

What would be the average for a teaching Pro over there guys? +2, +3? 

I'm laughing at the OP putting a +6 on Phil M (sorry OP) 

He may have been +6 upon turning pro but he's gained a few shots since then! 

If people are saying that a Teaching Pro is varying between +3 and +5 then you might as well slap a double digit + figure on a Touring Pro. 

No way is Phil a +6. 

 

My HC is based on average scores moreso than my potential score so I'd have a little edge over most on here, but even at that, I'd count my self very lucky to get to the 14th tee against a touring pro at my home course. 

 



Golf Digest from June of 2013 has PM at +5.2. so he is not that far off.
post #20 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by owens251109 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hopefulhacker View Post
 

I think you've hit the nail on the head there Golfingdad apart for the change in the Pro's HC. 

I think the variance would be a lot less. 

Depending on what type of Pro we are talking about as well, a Tour Pro's variance would be minimal. 

 

What would be the average for a teaching Pro over there guys? +2, +3? 

I'm laughing at the OP putting a +6 on Phil M (sorry OP) 

He may have been +6 upon turning pro but he's gained a few shots since then! 

If people are saying that a Teaching Pro is varying between +3 and +5 then you might as well slap a double digit + figure on a Touring Pro. 

No way is Phil a +6. 

 

My HC is based on average scores moreso than my potential score so I'd have a little edge over most on here, but even at that, I'd count my self very lucky to get to the 14th tee against a touring pro at my home course. 

 



Golf Digest from June of 2013 has PM at +5.2. so he is not that far off.


Biggest difference between the teaching pros I play with and a mini-tour player I used to play a lot with, and the rest of us is that they really don't have blowup rounds. The difference between good rounds and bad rounds is nowhere close to as far apart as most of us can put up between good and bad days.

 

P.S. I've never asked any of them what their handicap would be but I would be surprised if it was better than plus 1 or 2 but consistent. Like Golfingdad said their handicap wouldn't change very much if they used all 20 rounds.

post #21 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

You get strokes on hcp holes 1-9.

That's a GOOD player. I assume he's a tour pro? Most teaching pros just don't have nearly enough time to play to maintain that level of play.


He played at +4 today, I lost 2and 1 at least I think that was it, I had 3 birdies he had 1 eagle 1 birdie, I shot 83 he had an off day 74. course is 73.7 rate 139 slope. Nope not tour pro but I'll pm you his name and you can look up, he enters qualifying for US open and other events but he's almost 50 and I think Champions tour may be his ticket.

post #22 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by flopster View Post


He played at +4 today, I lost 2and 1 at least I think that was it, I had 3 birdies he had 1 eagle 1 birdie, I shot 83 he had an off day 74. course is 73.7 rate 139 slope. Nope not tour pro but I'll pm you his name and you can look up, he enters qualifying for US open and other events but he's almost 50 and I think Champions tour may be his ticket.
I think it's pretty awesome that you get to play regularly with a guy that good. Do you get to learn things just by observing up close, or are you just focused on your round (and beating him)?
post #23 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by billchao View Post


I think it's pretty awesome that you get to play regularly with a guy that good. Do you get to learn things just by observing up close, or are you just focused on your round (and beating him)?


LOL beating him, well maybe match play, yes it's nice to see how someone with a higher talent level executes shots, I'm pretty much focused on my round and so is he, but if I have a question or comment he's always been willing to help. I was actually leading through the first 5 holes with 2 birdies and one bogey  but then all hell busted loose on #6.:-P  What I do see that impresses me the most is just how damn good of a putter he is, I just can't sometimes figure out how he sees some of the breaks and pace on the greens we play at, the greens were just rolled the other day and are very quick with subtle breaks.
.

post #24 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by flopster View Post
 


LOL beating him, well maybe match play, yes it's nice to see how someone with a higher talent level executes shots, I'm pretty much focused on my round and so is he, but if I have a question or comment he's always been willing to help. I was actually leading through the first 5 holes with 2 birdies and one bogey  but then all hell busted loose on #6.:-P  What I do see that impresses me the most is just how damn good of a putter he is, I just can't sometimes figure out how he sees some of the breaks and pace on the greens we play at, the greens were just rolled the other day and are very quick with subtle breaks.
.

Yeah, I meant it like you were focused on trying to beat him, but the way you described your interaction with him is pretty much how I figured it would be.

post #25 of 33


He was at +7.2 within the year. must be having a slump.:whistle:  I also wonder if those may entries are Augusta, however I don't believe Augusta National has ever been rated.

post #26 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hopefulhacker View Post

I think you've hit the nail on the head there Golfingdad apart for the change in the Pro's HC. 
I think the variance would be a lot less. 
Depending on what type of Pro we are talking about as well, a Tour Pro's variance would be minimal. 

What would be the average for a teaching Pro over there guys? +2, +3? 
I'm laughing at the OP putting a +6 on Phil M (sorry OP) 
He may have been +6 upon turning pro but he's gained a few shots since then! 
If people are saying that a Teaching Pro is varying between +3 and +5 then you might as well slap a double digit + figure on a Touring Pro. 
No way is Phil a +6. 

My HC is based on average scores moreso than my potential score so I'd have a little edge over most on here, but even at that, I'd count my self very lucky to get to the 14th tee against a touring pro at my home course. 


Hopeful hacker do some research before laughing at someone. Your an idiot! I'm laughing at the fact poo comes out of your mouth.d4_w00t.gif
post #27 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by iHack View Post


Hopeful hacker do some research before laughing at someone. Your an idiot! I'm laughing at the fact poo comes out of your mouth.d4_w00t.gif

 

Yip, +5.2 is a realistic handicap for Phil when comparing it to guys on here in a Matchplay..

There is very little difference between the course set up for a Pro event over your Saturday morning round...

(There may be some sarcasm above) 

 

He is a +5.2 Handicap based on Tour(Tournament) golf... but if it makes you feel better to ignore that fact that this counts for so much, then so be it. 

post #28 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by hopefulhacker View Post

My HC is based on average scores moreso than my potential score so I'd have a little edge over most on here, but even at that, I'd count my self very lucky to get to the 14th tee against a touring pro at my home course. 

How can your Handicap be based off your average score? If it is then its not a true handicap and should not be discussed or used as one- ever! A handicap is based off your potential which is determined by your lowest scores. Anything other is sandbagging.
post #29 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfisher View Post


How can your Handicap be based off your average score? If it is then its not a true handicap and should not be discussed or used as one- ever! A handicap is based off your potential which is determined by your lowest scores. Anything other is sandbagging.

Check my location... we have a very different handicap system here, it's not calculated on average scores as such, but it works out that way. 

post #30 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by hopefulhacker View Post
 

What would be the average for a teaching Pro over there guys? +2, +3? 

 

Years ago an assistant pro at Old Warson Country Club played his way into the U.S. Open at Pebble Beach, and made the 36-hole cut.

 

His reward: head pro job at Cherry Hills Golf Club in StL County (closed in 2003, unfortunately). Six months later, this guy couldn't break 80... head pro and teaching took up too much time.

 

Fast forward to today: Due to tight work schedules in the lingering recession, younger club pros I know say they find time to play about once or twice a month.


Edited by WUTiger - 1/12/14 at 9:43pm
post #31 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by WUTiger View Post
 

Years ago an assistant pro at Old Warson Country Club played his way into the U.S. Open at Pebble Beach, and made the 36-hole cut.

 

His reward: head pro job at Cherry Hills Golf Club in StL County (closed in 2003, unfortunately). Six months later, this guy couldn't break 80... head pro and teaching took up too much time.

 

Fast forward to today: Due to tight work schedules in the lingering recession, younger club pros I know say they find time to play about once or twice a month.

I can well imagine, it's quite similar here, a lot of the teaching pros say they struggle to get out regularly at all. 

But I assume there is a certain standard/qualifying criteria that a Teaching Pro has to achieve before the can get their license though? 

 

I think the standard is  -2 over here, that's minus 2, but most of them would at least be scratch golfers. 

-2 over here may be a scratch golfer over there due to the difference in the HC systems we have (I think it's commonly accepted that our system is a little less lenient and there may be a 2-3 shot differential) 

A little bit of related trivia: Ian Poulter was -4 HC when he turned Pro!!! He didn't have time to play competition golf so his HC remained the same, in reality, he would have been a + golfer. 

Our handicaps are based solely on competition golf, and every competitive round played counts towards your handicap... there's no such thing as the best 10/20 rounds or casual golf.

 

 

post #32 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by hopefulhacker View Post
 

 

-2 over here may be a scratch golfer over there due to the difference in the HC systems we have (I think it's commonly accepted that our system is a little less lenient and there may be a 2-3 shot differential) 

 

 

In my experience, the only people who think it's "commonly accepted" are those that carry a CONGU handicap and for some reason want to believe that they're better than someone with a like handicap obtained under the USGA system.....

 

;-)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hopefulhacker View Post
 

 

Our handicaps are based solely on competition golf, and every competitive round played counts towards your handicap... there's no such thing as the best 10/20 rounds or casual golf.

 

 

 

No they aren't.  Supplemental rounds (casual golf) are allowed and more often than not make up the vast majority of rounds posted for many players under CONGU.  In fact, this year CONGU is encouraging more supplemental rounds to be posted.  They've removed any restriction on the number of "qualifying scores" that had to have been returned in the prior year in order to post supplementary scores.

 

A supplementary round is no different than every round I play with my buddies.  The only difference is that I must post mine, while under CONGU a player who doesn't feel particularly chipper that day can decide before the round that they won't be posting the result.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hopefulhacker View Post
 

 

A little bit of related trivia: Ian Poulter was -4 HC when he turned Pro!!! He didn't have time to play competition golf so his HC remained the same, in reality, he would have been a + golfer.

 

 

 

That's probably the biggest complaint that I hear about CONGU.  The golfer who only posts a handful of scores each year (if any) even though he plays often.  His handicap can be vastly different from his actual playing ability.......either higher, or lower.  Either way, if someone chooses not to post supplemental rounds, their handicap may not be an accurate reflection of their current ability/potential but rather more of last year, or even several years ago.

post #33 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
 

 

In my experience, the only people who think it's "commonly accepted" are those that carry a CONGU handicap and for some reason want to believe that they're better than someone with a like handicap obtained under the USGA system.....

 

;-)

 

 

No they aren't.  Supplemental rounds (casual golf) are allowed and more often than not make up the vast majority of rounds posted for many players under CONGU.  In fact, this year CONGU is encouraging more supplemental rounds to be posted.  They've removed any restriction on the number of "qualifying scores" that had to have been returned in the prior year in order to post supplementary scores.

 

A supplementary round is no different than every round I play with my buddies.  The only difference is that I must post mine, while under CONGU a player who doesn't feel particularly chipper that day can decide before the round that they won't be posting the result.

 

 

 

That's probably the biggest complaint that I hear about CONGU.  The golfer who only posts a handful of scores each year (if any) even though he plays often.  His handicap can be vastly different from his actual playing ability.......either higher, or lower.  Either way, if someone chooses not to post supplemental rounds, their handicap may not be an accurate reflection of their current ability/potential but rather more of last year, or even several years ago.

:-D I shouldn't have went there re the 2-3 shots, I think your system is better so I'll leave it at that :-P  

 

In theory, what you say is somewhat correct, but the reality is very different.  

 

I have handed in 2 supplementary cards (I play most of my golf in my club) this year and not one of them is on my HC record. 

The guidelines state that you can only hand in up to 10 supplementary scores each year. That doesn't make up the majority of rounds for any active golfer. 

You can only decrease your HC with a supplementary round, thus many players with a poor score don't even bother. 

Your handicap cannot increase as a result of a poor supplementary round*

They should, but they don't, and they don't because HC Secretaries in clubs (whose unpaid job it is to record this)  don't even record good scores 99% of the time. 

I am active in an Irish golfing forum and we have regular society rounds, not once has anyone been cut for a supplementary score in 3 years.

 

*In theory a HC secretary should (but it rarely happens) review each players scores at least yearly to see if they are due a manual adjustment. It rarely happens, and an increase in HC due to a review is almost unheard of.  

 

From the Golfing Union of Ireland http://www.gui.ie/handicap-manual/congu_2012_correct-pdf.aspx

Page 39. 

 

Don't get me wrong though, your system is far far better. 

It's my first year playing club golf and I started to get to grips with my scoring in Aug/Sept. 

By Oct I was shooting 86-90 scores regularly in my weekly club competition... However, they were Non Qualifying rounds (for HC purposes) as, with the weather over here, we were playing with placing everywhere. 

It's quite frustrating, I am actually playing competitive golf for the last 3 months and the same rules (Placing) applies to everyone playing but yet these rounds don't get calculated as part of my HC. 

So Oct - March is our Winter Rules Session (placing, bunkers out of play poss, etc) and during this time my HC won't change as a cut is reliant on my HC Sec (who is a volunteer in fairness) looking at my scores and reviewing them manually.... and before you say it :-D I have sent him an email asking him to review them as I would like to get cut. 

 

It's a crap system, but at least it means we are generally sandbagging (due to the system) 2-3 shots when playing you guys :naughty:

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