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May a player borrow a ball mid-round (Tin Cup) - Page 3

post #37 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsgolfer View Post


All state amateur tournaments I've played have the one ball rule. The reason i likethe one ball rule is that, it would be a pain to try and remember what ball your playing competitors are playing. I've played in tournament where my playing competitors couldn't remember what number ball they were playing I can't imagine trying to decipher lost balls and such playing many different balls

The one ball COC was intended for use in competitions involving 'elite' players. Such competitions would normally have a starter, one of his jobs being to check with the players that they could uniquely identify their ball(s) if necessary.

Presumably these competitions were only pretending to be elite.

post #38 of 41

There have been suggestions that the CoC was introduced at the behest of the manufacturers in order to ensure 'their' player only used 'their' ball.  ;-)

post #39 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rulesman View Post

The one ball COC was intended for use in competitions involving 'elite' players. Such competitions would normally have a starter, one of his jobs being to check with the players that they could uniquely identify their ball(s) if necessary.
Presumably these competitions were only pretending to be elite.

Agree. I know of some tournament organizers who implemented the one ball condition with the purpose of elevating their competition to "elite", even though there were no "elite" players participating. a1_smile.gif

As noted earlier, imo, this condition of competition has outlasted its usefulness (still don't understand what evil in the game was being dispatched or controlled). It certainly should never be used in amateur or club competition - it's a trap for the players.
Our national amateur championship has not used it for several years, with no ill effects. The best player still won!
post #40 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by joekelly View Post
 

Oops, Erik. getting a little personal aren't you?

 

No. You tried to equate a (fake) rule that says you must use a designated putter as an equivalent to the one-ball rule, in spite of the many and very basic differences (i.e. no rule even requiring a player to CARRY a putter, while golf would be quite difficult without a golf ball). I said arguing that didn't make you look very good, IMO. It still doesn't, and it's telling (to me) that rather than come up with a new opinion to discuss the actual topic, you allege a personal attack and then launch into an actual personal attack.

 

But… if you simply wish to blame me for your poor reasoning skills in proposing a "designated putter is like a one ball rule," by all means, carry on. I'm not offended by what some stranger on the Internet says. :-)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joekelly View Post
 

Frankly, the 'reasons' you gave for your preferences regarding the one ball rule don't look like 'reasons' to me, but only innate bias.

 

It's not bias. They may not be strong reasons, but as this rule doesn't affect 99% of golfers, I don't think they need to be terribly strong. They're also not even my reasons - they're the reasons routinely cited by those in favor of supporting such a rule, which coincide reasonably well IMO with common sense. I understand the reasons; I didn't come up with them originally.

 

But again, if you'd rather write off the given reasons as "personal bias," thus freeing you entirely from having to overcome them to make a point, be my guest. They'll still be the reasons even if you essentially choose to ignore them.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joekelly View Post
 

Bias, because only folks like you, the highly skilled, are subject to this rule, under all circumstances i have read about. And of course, you want to preserve this CoC so that all will know that you are subject to a special rules the commoner does not experience.

 

So your new claim is that this condition of competition is a form of elitism? Good luck with that.

 

And "the commoner?" You really don't know the first thing about me.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by joekelly View Post
 

This one ball BS may have had a real reason ages ago when various gutta percha ball makers could offer very different balls to use but today, I say let those skilled players use those balls that float high and soft, whenever they want. The opponent can use the same or any other ball. Just coz you're amongst the 1% who sometimes shoot par, doesn't give you special qualities, except golf skill.

 

It's that special quality that means that I* can take advantage of different golf balls. I can switch to a spinny ball on a short par four with a pin tucked just over a bunker, and a longer, less spinning ball to reach a par five or to let a ball run back to the back tier on a long par three.

 

Now for some basic opinion, which you're welcome to disagree with but which is mine, and which you're likely going to be unable to sway given the strength of your previous arguments: the game is better at the higher levels (the levels at which players could actually benefit from switching balls) when a player says "I'm going into battle with this ball, these clubs, and my golf swing." Not when he debates with his caddie on each tee which ball to use.

 

* (Click to show)
I say I only because you do, but really, I'm talking about players MUCH better than I am. Balls are still somewhat interchangeable for me - I don't know that I could tell the performance difference on a Bridgestone B330 and a Titleist Pro V1x. Closer to the green, perhaps, but with a 7-iron, the two degree difference in launch angle or the added two yards of carry would not come up in my testing. To a PGA Tour pro or a truly elite amateur player, they would.
 
This is part of why your "elitism" claims are so laughably off target.
post #41 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by joekelly View Post
 

Oops, Erik. getting a little personal aren't you?  Why run me down with comments like that?  Frankly, the 'reasons' you gave for your preferences regarding the one ball rule don't look like 'reasons' to me, but only innate bias. Bias, because only folks like you, the highly skilled, are subject to this rule, under all circumstances i have read about. And of course, you want to preserve this CoC so that all will know that you are subject to a special rules the commoner does not experience. 

 

This one ball BS may have had a real reason ages ago when various gutta percha ball makers could offer very different balls to use but today, i say let those skilled players use those balls that float high and soft, whenever they want. The opponent can use the same or any other ball. Just coz you're amongst the 1% who sometimes shoot par, doesn't give you special qualities, except golf skill. 

 

Not even that long ago Joe.  When I got serious about the game the "good" players all used balata covered wound balls.  The performance differences of those compared to even an upper grade surlyn ball was like night and day - far more than any differences seen today except maybe for the very cheapest plastic rocks or range ball equivalents.  There was even one non balata plastic covered ball in the early 90's that spun even more than balata, to the point that it was almost uncontrollable - I don't remember the brand.  By mixing and matching surlyn and balata with different cores and wound vs. two or 3 piece solid, they got a lot of variety in how a ball performed.  Back then you had to trade one thing to get something else.  If you wanted extra distance, you gave up spin.  If you wanted spin you lost something in distance and accuracy off the tee.  

 

It was a bigger difference than it is now, with so many middle tier balls performing almost like the premium balls.

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