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post #19 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardballs View Post

Hi golfguy, what I now do in this situ, (off the green by a just a few feet) is use my 7 iron very much like a putter, I will try to stroke the ball so it lands a third of the distance to pin, clearing the rough/fairway grass, and then roll the other 2 x thirds towards the pin, this might not look as pretty as a lovely little chip with a sw, but its easy to control and often leaves me close enough to putt out!, and zero chance of skulking/ blading!!!!!

Thanks ;) Not worried about looking pretty, just want to get rid of double and triple bogeys on holes where my approach shot is not far off the green! You would think zero chance of skulling right? I actually have sculled this shot many times too (using 7i like putter). No clue why. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
 

GET A CHIPPER.....!

 

I know, not cool, and you won't do it, but it will take a LOT of strokes off your game, especially when used in conjunction with the "putting method" of chipping.

 

And yeah, if you're 3-putting that often, you need to work on distance control on your lag putts too.

I actually never knew this existed until last week! A buddy of mine had one on the practice range and I thought it was just a practice / training aid! I used and actually did hit some great chips with relative ease. I mentioned to him that its too bad you cant use it on the course and he looked at me like I was crazy. Pretty embarassing I have been playing for about 5 years and just heard about this club!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hey Joe View Post
 

This approach has really helped me a lot.

 

 

Joe

This is interesting and seems helpful, I would def. need to make myself a little notecard to bring to the course if I were to adopt this method. Problem for me is, none of this does any good if my stroke on these shots continues to be completely off ;( 

Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
 

 

First, practice putting. 3-4 putting is not good. I would recommend having someone look at your putting stroke, it might be off. Which would make it impossible for the person to gain touch or feel on putts because the contact is bad. 

 

Putting the ball back in your stance will bring the leading edge into play. This makes hitting the ball first paramount. It is a lot of pressure on the short game. Once you duff a few, or chunk a few, then all hell breaks loose with thin shots and chunks. Its a horrible spot to be in. 

 

If I can I putt the ball around the green. If I can't putt the ball the I really just do short pitch shots. I like using the bounce. 

 

 

Thanks for the input. I know my putting is terrible. QUESTION: I was fitted for a putter and they said I should definitely be using face balanced. The putter I use now is toe balanced, do you think that could be making a substantial difference? (the rest of the specs fit me on the toe balanced that im using, almost no offset and legnth is perfect). 

I guess its just I have seen so much conflicting approaches to these shots, I thought playing ball back in stance was proper thing to do, but the more im reading and seeing it seems that would not be the correct approach, at least for me. 

I def. do putt from off the green whenever it is possible as well.

 

The funny thing is, I actually have been hitting my pitch shots very well. Although im not always gauging distance correctly, I never chunk or thin any of these shots and always make good / decent contact. I have noticed when doing this properly you can actually afford to not make 100% clean contact (maybe hit a little behind it) and STILL hit a decent shot! Maybe I should just adopt the pitch for all these off the green shots and work on controlling the distance? 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave s View Post
 

Your quickest return on time investment is in putting:  One key (mine) to reducing 3-putt greens, (honestly, I don't even know what a FOUR putt green is!) is to be able to lag any putt to within 5 feet.  Then, a practice regimen that makes those 2-5 foot putts nearly automatic is required.  Before each round, I hit the practice green with 2 golf balls.  I hit 2' putts with both balls from 4 sides of a relatively flat hole placement.  Then, move out to 3' then 5.  Wash, rinse, repeat.  Then I take the same 2 balls to a hole that isn't quite flat.  This gives me oppty at uphill, downhill and both side breaking putts.  Same thing.  2, 3 and 5' range putts.  Make as many as you can.  Finish up your practice session lagging 15, 20 and 30' putts with a focus on getting them ALL inside 5 feet.  You should be ready to 2-putt most greens.  The premise is that you've been there and done it so many times that when you're on the greens, you become nearly automatic on thee short putts.

 

Chipping is a whole other ball game.  My premise again is that you have to have been there and done it hundreds of times to be relatively assured of success when a shot presents itself on the course.  I like the video someone posted about changing clubs based on flight and roll out.  This is a great technique and I've used it with good success.  The problem is that it assumes you have a tight lie, and clear access to the pin placement.  Not always the case during your round and where the misses end up.

 

I practice my short game a lot working from the green collar to medium and deep rough.  What works BEST for me is a 58* Vokey wedges with a good (11* I think) degree of bounce.  It goes through anything and is forgiving on even the tightest of lies.  Also learn how to square the face, open the face and slide it under the ball.  Lots of 'nuances' to the short game.

 

Back to your original post:  Blading sometimes means that your right hand is passing your left hand resulting in a 'scooping' motion.  This is what I've seen people do who 'skull' the ball regularly.  Keep those hands consistent with the left hand leading through the shot and well after impact.  that should help you a bit.

 

dave

Thanks for the advice - I like that putting drill and use it before rounds as well - I think I need to be practicing my putting much more than just :30 mins before a round though ;(

As I just mentioned above, I actually have a much easier time pitching the ball up in the air but do not always gauge distance correctly. However this is a shot that I rarely mis-hit. Maybe I should just do what is working better for me at the moment and forget all these low chips and trying to run up to the hole etc? Maybe better to pitch it high and work on distance control to land it close?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by octabogey View Post

Like Dave said working on getting those lag putts close will help reduce 3/4 putting

Best thing I can say for the short game nerves is keep practicing, and when you're on course facing that shot trust your swing. Don't get ahead of yourself and worry about where the ball is gonna go, instead pick the swing you are gonna make and focus on that. When you make that swing keep your head down until you hear the ball land.

When this issue is seen in the shooting world it's called anticipation. The shooter becomes so worried about seeing where his shot went that he forgets about all the stuff that needs to happen before the bang. Long story short the solution to this is to focus on having a good grip, look at your front sight, and a slow smooth trigger squeeze. In golf I try to apply these things, as I had the same problem you did but with every shot because I was so excited to see where the ball was going.

Sorry to get off topic I just found that was how I fixed a similar issue, plus I'm only on my second cup of coffee.

Ha, nice analogy! General speaking I am very antsy on the course and I know this is at least a little bit of my problem..especially since my practice shots (full shots, chips, pitches etc.) are much much better than when im on the course and feeling nervous. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJpatbee View Post
 

As an 18 HCP I spend the majority of my time working on my full swing since it is a prerequisite to a good round, which for me is in the high 80's.  You seem to have a decent full swing and with 9 GIR and a few yards off the green for the remainder, it should not be too difficult to knock 5-6 strokes off your game.

 

I would recommend taking the time to find a good short game facility with putting, chipping, pitching, and sand shots, and dedicate a full session (1-2) hours weekly until you get some confidence - and don't be afraid to start with a lesson strictly on the short game.  I would also take a look at the golf ball you are playing - many people will tell you that you have no business playing a ball with a moderate amount of spin, which may not be true.  I switched last year to a couple of lower priced urethene covered balls (Gamer Tour and RBZ U) and have had a ball watching my short pitches and chips hugging the green instead of rolling like a marble.

 

Have fun and good luck.

Yeah, it's funny because at the end of the round when a playing partner asks what I shot they always think it was 6-8 strokes less than what it really was. I guess if your playing with someone who is hitting a decent amount of greens it is hard to understand how they are shooting high 90s / 100. Not at all saying my long game is great, but it is definitely good enough to where I could / should be breaking 90 regularly if my short game was not so terrible. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by inthehole View Post
 

chipping is the strongest part of my game.    never used to be ... i bought one of those $20 chipping nets & put it in the corner of my living room & have hit thousands of chips into it.    It has made a dramatic improvement in my chipping - just gives me confidence - I love to chip now.     Chipping and putting are the two things you can do in your house/apt ... assuming you have carpet and not hardwood

I have been practicing lately in the house (carpet) as well...Good to hear others do the same. I will continue that ;) 

post #20 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by GolfGuy123 View Post
 

 

Thanks for the input. I know my putting is terrible. QUESTION: I was fitted for a putter and they said I should definitely be using face balanced. The putter I use now is toe balanced, do you think that could be making a substantial difference? (the rest of the specs fit me on the toe balanced that im using, almost no offset and legnth is perfect). 

The funny thing is, I actually have been hitting my pitch shots very well. Although im not always gauging distance correctly, I never chunk or thin any of these shots and always make good / decent contact. I have noticed when doing this properly you can actually afford to not make 100% clean contact (maybe hit a little behind it) and STILL hit a decent shot! Maybe I should just adopt the pitch for all these off the green shots and work on controlling the distance? 

 

Thanks for the advice - I like that putting drill and use it before rounds as well - I think I need to be practicing my putting much more than just :30 mins before a round though ;(

 

Not sure. I have not delved into the world of putter fitting. Though I have heard rave reviews about Edel Putters, and their fitting process. They are expensive though. I guess if you are a guy who goes through different putters every few years, the costs difference for getting the right putter is mute. 

 

yep the wonders of Bounce, helps in making a good pitch shot. You get a good amount of leeway as well. I've hit a good half an inch behind the ball on a tight fairway before and the pitch shot turns out ok. 

 

Do this, get a piece of string. Lay it down on the green. Pace or measure off 15 feet. Now putt to that line. You should be able to get the ball to collect right near that line mostly all the time. If not then I would look into having your putting stroke taken a look at by an instructor. Also maybe consider getting a putter fitted better. The balance of the putter could be off, you could need a heavier clubhead or some counter balance. 

post #21 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by inthehole View Post
 

chipping is the strongest part of my game.    never used to be ... i bought one of those $20 chipping nets & put it in the corner of my living room & have hit thousands of chips into it.    It has made a dramatic improvement in my chipping - just gives me confidence - I love to chip now.     Chipping and putting are the two things you can do in your house/apt ... assuming you have carpet and not hardwood

 

sorry, I missed the jist of your question ... I have experimented with all my wedges for chipping & my go to club for the run of the mill chip off a nice fringe lie is a PW - pops it up nice & not too high.     From the greenside rough, if the ball is sitting up decently, I'll use a gap wedge, but if it is in the thick stuff, I use my most lofted club - I've found through much failure that its always better to swing hard when the ball is in the deep rough - don't want to give the long grass the opportunity to grab the club ... can't baby it out of the deep rough with a lower lofted club. 

 

I rely on runout, not spin like the better players who use tour balls  ... I think it's common knowledge that the guys who do the cool  2 bounce & stop chip shots, play the ball alot farther back, deloft a LW and go at it more aggressively ... that's a whole different level & for where the OP & I are at, staying away from a LW for basic chips is good idea... just use enough loft to get the job done, no more


Edited by inthehole - 1/21/14 at 2:12pm
post #22 of 31

I'm sure there is lots of good advice here but I think you have asked the wrong question. The question is not "which club" but "why the sculling". It seems to me you would have the problem with any club.

 

Without watching you, I'll just pass along that almost every time I've skinned one or seen someone else do it....they just didn't keep their heads down/eye on the ball, that is the "peeked", looked up before the club actually made contact. If that is the case I suggest trying any of the following:

 

1) keep your head down and eyes down until you see the grass move/the divot below where the ball originally lay.

2) or.....pick a spot on the face of your club, at least four or five grooves from the bottom and attempt to place that spot on the ball,

3) or....instead of looking at the back of the ball, pick a spot opposite, that is on the front side of the ball and attempt to putt the club face there.

 

this may or may not be your problem, but these thing have helped me.

 

someone once said, Snead perhaps, that no one ever saw themselves hit a good shot.

post #23 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oiler69 View Post
 

I'm sure there is lots of good advice here but I think you have asked the wrong question. The question is not "which club" but "why the sculling". It seems to me you would have the problem with any club.

 

Without watching you, I'll just pass along that almost every time I've skinned one or seen someone else do it....they just didn't keep their heads down/eye on the ball, that is the "peeked", looked up before the club actually made contact. If that is the case I suggest trying any of the following:

 

1) keep your head down and eyes down until you see the grass move/the divot below where the ball originally lay.

2) or.....pick a spot on the face of your club, at least four or five grooves from the bottom and attempt to place that spot on the ball,

3) or....instead of looking at the back of the ball, pick a spot opposite, that is on the front side of the ball and attempt to putt the club face there.

 

this may or may not be your problem, but these thing have helped me.

 

someone once said, Snead perhaps, that no one ever saw themselves hit a good shot.

Totally hear ya. Yes, certainly there is an issue with my actual stroke / chip. I was trying to be certain that, aside from addressing the issue with my stroke, I am not taking the wrong approach all together. In other words, should I be playing the shot a different way / different club. Once again, not that this would correct the main issue of sculling but I just want to make sure I am at least starting down the right path in terms of club selection...And after reading comments / reviews, watching some more vids online etc. It seems as though club selection can vary and there is no standard answer. Which leads my back to the "real" problem ;)

 

Anyways, I appreciate your input! I feel as though I am keeping my head down but as we know feel is not real and I may be bringing it up slightly too early. I have not tried your #2, will give it a shot. I actually use your #3 very often with full iron shots and pitch shots and it works very well for me. Suppose it would hurt to see how it works out with low chip shots as well ;)

post #24 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post

 

For me I rather teach someone to use one or two clubs around the green. It also teaches the person flight control on trajectories and how to use bounce. 

 

Yeah I'm in this camp.  I've always hated the method of using every club in the bag from 0-50 yards off the green.  I have decent (not great, really just passable) feel with little runner punches from being forced to play them under trees and whatnot for years, but given I'm not being forced into a punch, I literally never use anything except my 54˚ or 60˚ from 105-110 and in, and around the green it's the 60˚ probably 95% of the time.  I could never practice enough with three wedges and three irons and my 2h to get anywhere close to the level of feel I've got with my 60˚ from maybe 40 yards and in.  And that's not to say I'm pro level near the green or anything, just that for me I like feeling super confident in my green-side club rather than having some complex system with less feel and confidence.

 

And you're right about trajectories.  Not only is it useful to learn some flight control for the results, it also kind of teaches you about the interaction of the club head and bounce with the turf and ball as a side of effect of trying to get different flights.

post #25 of 31
Sounds like you are quite correct that the short game needs attention. A lesson or maybe several might really help. However, getting off the course and out from under the pressure of the score card and practicing is going to be necessary. Personally, I prefer to pitch than chip most of the time and that is what I practice most. But if you are trying to chip the ball just onto the green and let it roll to the hole, you should not be knocking it way off the other side of the green with a thin/skulled shot I don't believe. Seems to me that just shouldn't get off the ground and after rolling through fringe grass it was supposed to jump over it would turn up short or at least not way far past the hole.

If you don't get a lesson right away, at least find a place to practice and work out the skulls. For back yard practice, you might try sticking a tee in deep (~1/8 inch showing) and popping is out with the wedge or whatever club
post #26 of 31
Interesting thread. I live in Sudbury and play Sandy burr, juniper hills, and butternut a lot. I won a blackstone card in a tournament close to thanksgiving, so I'll be playing out there a lot this year
post #27 of 31

I didn't mean to diminish club selection. there is a lot that goes into developing a good short game...practice and experimentation mostly. In address clubs for those short greenside chips I like the one previously mentioned, using the 7 iron with a putting stroke. typically, the ball will fly a foot or so to get you over the taller grass and then run much like a putt. other than that I have always felt that using high lofted wedges was more difficult as they are typically heavier with greater bounce, harder to manipulate. I'd suggest finding one club that you're most comfortable with and consider it the "base" club for chipping and only use something other when the lie or situation demands. In my case, I use a pitching wedge as my go to unless there is a lot of loft required, but even then, with practice...just fooling around actually, you can learn to hit shots of varying trajectories with a PW...or any club really.

post #28 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by GolfGuy123 View Post
 

So after another frustrating round - im really thinking short game actually IS my priority piece...

The disasters came on holes where I did not hit the green...

 

SO...

 

I was using either a pitching wedge or 9 iron, playing ball back in stance with weight forward....

 

I know some people would use a 56 degree for these shots but I have been trying... 

 

Any input is appreciated. What club do you guys use in these situations? And is there a common cause for these sculled chip shots? Thanks!

1- Having been through this sort of thing, I have used a hybrid or a fairway metal where there is not a dramatic elevation change between the lie of the ball and of the putting surface.  Using a putting stroke, I eliminate the thin and chunked shots.  You would be surprised how quickly you can pick this up on-course, then head to the practice area for work as recommended by others.

 

2- As for the cause, I offer this mis-quoted wisdom from The Yogi of Berra: "Ninety percent of this game is mental and the other half is physical"  

post #29 of 31

I may be the only idiot that did this, but I recently realized that I watched the putter head go back and thru my putting stroke. The second I caught myself, I thought about some guy on tv commenting on someone missing a short putt, ''must have moved their head or eyes''. I've been putting worlds better ever since I learned to keep my eyes still. Something that may help your chipping is practicing on different  lies, choke down, and flatten your stroke, more like a long putting stroke. The most important part of chipping committing to the shot, if you stand over it scared, it's usually a bad result. Take a few practice strokes in similar rough or lack there of, commit to it, then look at your buddy and tell him to get this out the hole, or better yet go ahead and pull the pin. To be a good chipper it helps to be a lil cocky. Cocky is an old Indian word for confident. Ok, ok, I made that last part up.

post #30 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by inthehole View Post
 

 

sorry, I missed the jist of your question ... I have experimented with all my wedges for chipping & my go to club for the run of the mill chip off a nice fringe lie is a PW - pops it up nice & not too high.     From the greenside rough, if the ball is sitting up decently, I'll use a gap wedge, but if it is in the thick stuff, I use my most lofted club - I've found through much failure that its always better to swing hard when the ball is in the deep rough - don't want to give the long grass the opportunity to grab the club ... can't baby it out of the deep rough with a lower lofted club. 

 

I rely on runout, not spin like the better players who use tour balls  ... I think it's common knowledge that the guys who do the cool  2 bounce & stop chip shots, play the ball alot farther back, deloft a LW and go at it more aggressively ... that's a whole different level & for where the OP & I are at, staying away from a LW for basic chips is good idea... just use enough loft to get the job done, no more


I did the same thing. Missed the gist of the question as well. I would say pick 1 or 2 and practice your ass off with them. The reason I say 2, is I've always used a 56, but would use a 60 if I was short sided. I realized the 56 swing aint near enough for the 60. I honestly believe its whatever you practice with, whether it be a 8 iron or a 64.  

post #31 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by liveeel View Post
 

I may be the only idiot that did this, but I recently realized that I watched the putter head go back and thru my putting stroke. The second I caught myself, I thought about some guy on tv commenting on someone missing a short putt, ''must have moved their head or eyes''. I've been putting worlds better ever since I learned to keep my eyes still. Something that may help your chipping is practicing on different  lies, choke down, and flatten your stroke, more like a long putting stroke. The most important part of chipping committing to the shot, if you stand over it scared, it's usually a bad result. Take a few practice strokes in similar rough or lack there of, commit to it, then look at your buddy and tell him to get this out the hole, or better yet go ahead and pull the pin. To be a good chipper it helps to be a lil cocky. Cocky is an old Indian word for confident. Ok, ok, I made that last part up.

Lol. Appreciate this. Funny you mention because for the last week I have been practicing for 2-3 hours every night with only 2 clubs....pitching wedge and 56. Unfort, it has been too cold so my practice has all been indoors on the carpet (better than nothing right???) - Practicing these two clubs I have been putting ball in middle of stance and using a putting stroke and hitting to different targets I set up in an empty room. The first night I practiced this I was topping, hitting behind it etc...but after 1-2 little sessions, its coming along in MAJOR way...once again, I know this doesnt really count  100% since its on carpet but regardless I still consider it practice and I know for a fact it is helping me ingrain the mechanics. Cant wait to try on on the practice area / golf course. 

NOTE:

I chose the PW and 56 as my two clubs that I will stick with for these sorts of shots around the green because it just feels like it simplifies the process much more for me  and I know I can get in a groove and confident / comfortable with 2 clubs much easier than 4-5. I can use the 56 if I have to pop it up a bit more for any reason and/or if its a shorter shot...AND I can use the PW for any "other" shots, just alter how hard / fast im hitting it to control distance etc. 

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