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TheSandTrap.com › Golf Forum › The Pro Shop › Clubs, Grips, Shafts, Fitting › Are you considering " lofting up" ? Or what is all this lofting up I am hearing about ?
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Are you considering " lofting up" ? Or what is all this lofting up I am hearing about ? - Page 4

post #55 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by amac View Post
 

Why all the buzz about the SLDR this year?  This driver came out last year and some local golf shops said it wasn't getting the traction on tour that TM hoped.  What changed?

 

As for lofting up, is this targeting the 90% of golfers who don't break 100?  Do swing mechanics prevent high HC's golfers from getting drivers airborne?  I'm not a great golfer, but I hit a fairly high ball.  I fight the high launch due to the wind and soggy nature of my home course.  I swing an R1 set at 9.5u.  After reading all the posts, I feel compeled to get on a track man and look at what type of spin numbers I get.  I'm more willing to tinker with what I've got and consider a new shaft before eating a loss and ponying up another $400. 

 

As for Pro's lofting up, they have a distinct advantage of knowing how to flight down their shots.  Most amateur's don't.  I'd hate to have a 12* setting and then be looking dead into a 15mph wind and launch a baloon!  On a side note, I did notice that all the TM guys have switch to the SLDR.  And Luke Donald dumped his Mizuno driver and 3 wood for the SLDR and a Rocketballz 3 wood. 

 

First the SLDR came out at a weird time. 2nd, its tough to change the minds of tour players to loft up. Like Mark Crossfield said in his video. If they didn't have Trackman or Flightscope to say, the numbers say otherwise. Then I don't think this driver would ever sell that good. Its just tough to change the minds of golfers when they have years of expecting a certain trajectory and performance. 

 

Taylormade is coming out with a 14 degree driver for slower swing speed players. Also, off center hits produce more spin. The R1 is a low spinning driver, you'll see a dramatic drop with the SLDR. All the slider does is shallow out the launch angle, launches it higher, with less spin. Which produces more carry, and more roll. 

 

Also, Lofting up does not mean hitting the ball higher. If you watch Mark Crossfield in his video getting fitted for the SLDR. To him it looks higher, but he is hitting the ball the exact same height in the air, and he's gone up nearly 1.5 degrees. The reason is the less spin takes some height off the ball. So don't get confused thinking you will hit it higher. 

post #56 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by amac View Post
 

Why all the buzz about the SLDR this year?  This driver came out last year and some local golf shops said it wasn't getting the traction on tour that TM hoped.  What changed?

 

I just spoke with TaylorMade and got the answers to this question specifically.

 

Basically, it's a combination of what @saevel25 said (it took awhile for PGA Tour pros to change their minds, and many weren't likely to do it mid-season last year), PLUS a little bit of "TaylorMade didn't realize what they had on their hands." They knew they'd created (in their words) a solid driver, but they were mostly concerned with a lower spinning head. Then they combined that with "lofting up" after the release, and found that they could hit the 17°/1700 RPM levels they talk about. So they changed their marketing message a bit to promote this fact, while last year it was a bit more of the "look at us, 10th anniversary of moveable weights, SLDR lets you move the weight without losing the little screws, etc." message.

 

So those two things are why. They are releasing a 14° driver head soon - read that again if you want - that they hadn't even planned on last year at all. But when they realized that a 14° driver head could actually be used and be of great benefit to a significant number of golfers, they made it.

 

So why are we hearing more about it this year than last? Because they didn't quite realize what they had until pros started hitting it, and started to need 12° drivers themselves. They had something like nine 12° drivers in the bags of PGA Tour players at the LA Open (whatever it's called… Northern Trust?) this year!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post

 

Also, Lofting up does not mean hitting the ball higher. If you watch Mark Crossfield in his video getting fitted for the SLDR. To him it looks higher, but he is hitting the ball the exact same height in the air, and he's gone up nearly 1.5 degrees. The reason is the less spin takes some height off the ball. So don't get confused thinking you will hit it higher. 

 

To be fair, people typically need to launch their ball higher AND get a higher peak height. 90-100 feet is good. Many people's peak height is closer to 50 or 60 feet. :(

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by amac View Post
 

As for lofting up, is this targeting the 90% of golfers who don't break 100?  Do swing mechanics prevent high HC's golfers from getting drivers airborne? I'm not a great golfer, but I hit a fairly high ball.

 

I would be willing to bet - sight unseen - that you launch the ball lower than you think. I'll withhold the exact number as it's part of our Lowest Score Wins book, but almost nobody launches the ball very high at all.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by amac View Post
 

I'm more willing to tinker with what I've got and consider a new shaft before eating a loss and ponying up another $400.

 

Part of the problem there is that when you increase loft on a 9.5° driver, you're going to be increasing backspin as well. To hit a 12° driver, you need a VERY low spinning driver (and to hit up on it a bit). In other words, there's only so much you can do with a 9.5 head and a back-in-the-head CG, and an adjustable hosel to get truly high launch, low spin.

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by amac View Post
 

As for Pro's lofting up, they have a distinct advantage of knowing how to flight down their shots.  Most amateur's don't.  I'd hate to have a 12* setting and then be looking dead into a 15mph wind and launch a baloon!

 

Optimal launch is optimal launch.

 

Up to about 35 MPH of wind, you're better off launching the ball at your optimal launch. Pros don't "flight down the ball" if they know what's good for them. People, by and large (especially true of Texans), hit the ball WAY TOO LOW with the driver.

 

And that's all I'll say for now on that, as we're making a video about this very soon. Just got off the phone with TaylorMade…

 

 

post #57 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

To be fair, people typically need to launch their ball higher AND get a higher peak height. 90-100 feet is good. Many people's peak height is closer to 50 or 60 feet. :(

 

 

 

Could that max optimal height change with swing speed? I noticed that the LPGA averages a positive angle of attack, yet all their heights are less than the PGA tour's 30 yard height average. 

 

Its probably nit picking a bit, so 30 yard height could be just fine :whistle:

post #58 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by amac View Post

As for Pro's lofting up, they have a distinct advantage of knowing how to flight down their shots.  Most amateur's don't.  I'd hate to have a 12* setting and then be looking dead into a 15mph wind and launch a baloon!  On a side note, I did notice that all the TM guys have switch to the SLDR.  And Luke Donald dumped his Mizuno driver and 3 wood for the SLDR and a Rocketballz 3 wood. 

Part of that, I think, is that the JetSpeed just isn't that appealing to professionals. It's not adjustable, and they don't offer a tour or TP version like they did with the RocketBallz, so if a pro is using a TM wood it's probably going to be an SLDR.
post #59 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
 

Could that max optimal height change with swing speed? I noticed that the LPGA averages a positive angle of attack, yet all their heights are less than the PGA tour's 30 yard height average. 

 

Yes. Somewhat. They're still at almost 80 feet, though.

post #60 of 68

Good info from TM iacas.  Surprising to hear that TM made such a marketing blunder.  It seems to me that with an edge in one category, something is missing in another.  Meaning, what are the downsides to placing the COG so low and close to the face?  Someone posted about forgiveness and shot dispersion.  Not a problem for a touring pro, but how about 10+ handicappers?  I'm definitely intrigued by the SLDR concepts and wonder if my R1, with the right shaft to head combo, can/could produce similar results?  Also, if the SLDR technology was the end all, be all for drivers, then wouldn't every manufacturer follow their lead?

 

In the end, sounds like I'll be taking my driver to my local shop for some comparison testing.  ;-)

post #61 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by amac View Post
 

Good info from TM iacas.  Surprising to hear that TM made such a marketing blunder.

 

I wouldn't really call it that.

 

I'd just call it "not being entirely aware of what they had…" Combine that with the fact that PGA Tour players weren't going to switch mid-season (not in quantity), and you have this delayed reaction.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by amac View Post
 

It seems to me that with an edge in one category, something is missing in another.  Meaning, what are the downsides to placing the COG so low and close to the face?  Someone posted about forgiveness and shot dispersion.  Not a problem for a touring pro, but how about 10+ handicappers?  I'm definitely intrigued by the SLDR concepts and wonder if my R1, with the right shaft to head combo, can/could produce similar results?  Also, if the SLDR technology was the end all, be all for drivers, then wouldn't every manufacturer follow their lead?

 

To answer your last question first… I guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

I would expect shot dispersion to go up a little bit, but distance is a much bigger advantage than accuracy. Or to put it another way, virtually everyone should give up 1° of accuracy for 20 yards of distance. For PGA Tour pros it's an even tradeoff. For everyone else, it's a win.

 

P.S. Also, the lack of forgiveness is primarily going to affect only mishits.

post #62 of 68

Another thought on lofting up.  According to TM's engineering and reivew...  "If 1.5 degrees of additional loft is added, the face angle will close 3 degrees."  So, if I go from 9.5* to 12* in loft, I'm closing the clubface 5-6*?  In your SLDR fittings, how has the ball flight been affected, if at all?  

 

The above quote was taken from a review of the R1.  The adjustable face technology was designed to counter the above affect of lofting up.  Why is this no longer needed?
 

post #63 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by amac View Post
 

Another thought on lofting up.  According to TM's engineering and reivew...  "If 1.5 degrees of additional loft is added, the face angle will close 3 degrees."  So, if I go from 9.5* to 12* in loft, I'm closing the clubface 5-6*?  In your SLDR fittings, how has the ball flight been affected, if at all?  

 

That's only if you do it with the hosel thingy. They'd "close the face" so you opened it up, adding the loft.

 

You can get an SLDR in 10.5, 12, and even 14° (soon) lofts. Then make small adjustments using the hosel from there.

post #64 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
 

Big Bertha is similar to the SLDR except now you can change the vertical COG. Now you can tune in the spin a bit with out changing the loft. 

 

 

At the 0:45 mark, the Callaway guy shows the vertical COG adjustment. Kinda cool.

post #65 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandallT View Post
 

 

 

At the 0:45 mark, the Callaway guy shows the vertical COG adjustment. Kinda cool.

 

 

Until you drop it and loose it. Then you are playing with a non-conforming golf club :-D

post #66 of 68

I'm not claiming this as an accurate measurement (the actual number), but if you saw the video you'd clearly see how HIGH the ball is launched… and it carries 310 or more.

 

The Video (Click to show)

 

post #67 of 68

I would say its pretty accurate. The ball is launching at what 175 mph there. The ball has traveled about 29 inches in those two pictures. (Just took the diameter of the ball and calculated how many ball lengths it moved from the original position, multiplied by 1.68. Cheap way of calculating distance of an image using a known distance)

 

So the ball moves at about 257 feet per second. Ball moved 2.42 feet. I would say its pretty accurate, that you are taking a very small increment from the starting point that its a good assumption the spin on the ball can't effect its trajectory yet. 

 

:-D

post #68 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
 

I would say its pretty accurate. The ball is launching at what 175 mph there. The ball has traveled about 29 inches in those two pictures. (Just took the diameter of the ball and calculated how many ball lengths it moved from the original position, multiplied by 1.68. Cheap way of calculating distance of an image using a known distance)

 

So the ball moves at about 257 feet per second. Ball moved 2.42 feet. I would say its pretty accurate, that you are taking a very small increment from the starting point that its a good assumption the spin on the ball can't effect its trajectory yet. 

 

I'm just saying the 14° is possibly not super-accurate given that the camera angle isn't directly perpendicular to the motion of the golf ball.

 

Tiger did say in his post-round interview that he wanted to launch it quite high.

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