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I miss the buttery impact. Is it the head? The shaft? The grip?

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 

Hey all. :beer:

 

Years ago I put together a set of Golfsmith blades with Dynamic Gold R300 shafts and Winn wrap--the kind you actually wrapped around the shaft! lol And I wrapped it over a lady's grip instead of its own sleeve, so it came out jumbo and VERY cushiony. Eventually I felt the shafts were too flexible and I was wary of reshafting them, so I got Gigagolf blades with Dynamic Gold SL S300 shafts and Winn G8 jumbo grips (firm). But I think the shafts are a little too stiff, plus impact feels more like a spoon on wood than a hot knife through butter.

 

The Golfsmith irons were made of 1025 or 1030 carbon steel (don't remember which), and the Gigagolf ones of 1035. Is that enough to make a difference in feel through impact?

 

Does going from plush to firm grips change the feel through impact?

 

Or is it mainly the shaft flex?

 

PS - Does anyone still make a DIY wrap-on grip like Winn used to?

post #2 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by jscomp View Post
 

Hey all. :beer:

 

Years ago I put together a set of Golfsmith blades with Dynamic Gold R300 shafts and Winn wrap--the kind you actually wrapped around the shaft! lol And I wrapped it over a lady's grip instead of its own sleeve, so it came out jumbo and VERY cushiony. Eventually I felt the shafts were too flexible and I was wary of reshafting them, so I got Gigagolf blades with Dynamic Gold SL S300 shafts and Winn G8 jumbo grips (firm). But I think the shafts are a little too stiff, plus impact feels more like a spoon on wood than a hot knife through butter.

 

The Golfsmith irons were made of 1025 or 1030 carbon steel (don't remember which), and the Gigagolf ones of 1035. Is that enough to make a difference in feel through impact?

 

Does going from plush to firm grips change the feel through impact?

 

Or is it mainly the shaft flex?

 

PS - Does anyone still make a DIY wrap-on grip like Winn used to?

It's bad vibrations...

 

Anything going up through the shaft, including flex, will affect sound/vibrations

 

DG is not known as a smooth feeling shaft 

post #3 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond View Post
 

It's bad vibrations...

 

Anything going up through the shaft, including flex, will affect sound/vibrations

 

DG is not known as a smooth feeling shaft 

 

Yep, that is why DG invented sensicore, to soften the feel by dampening the harsh vibration from their shafts. 

 

Unless you are like DG were you change the bend profile with flex, then the feel wont change much between flexes of the same irons. KBS tour Stiff and KBS tour x-stiff felt nearly identical. They keep the same bend profile, just modify the weight (heavier = stiffer). 

post #4 of 21

Before doing anything dramatic you might want to try something like a prosoft insert...I might help dampen the vibrations moving up the shaft.

post #5 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by 96p993 View Post
 

Before doing anything dramatic you might want to try something like a prosoft insert...I might help dampen the vibrations moving up the shaft.

Yes, I've heard good things about ProSoft inserts over the years. Seems to really dampen the "bad" vibes and softens up the feel.

post #6 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond View Post
 

Yes, I've heard good things about ProSoft inserts over the years. Seems to really dampen the "bad" vibes and softens up the feel.


I have them in my KBS Tours due to an elbow problem...While I dont notice them at all most of the round I definitely know they are in the shaft when a thin shot occurs. I would give them a thumbs up from my experience with them.

 

For the OP it is a cheap possible fix for the feel situation. Give them a try...

post #7 of 21
Thread Starter 

Was my post tl;dr? lol No one's really answering the questions. I guess the answer is "probably" for each. Stronger flex, smaller & firmer grip, slightly harder metal. They all probably contribute to impact feel. I was trying to figure out which is the biggest culprit.

 

I've decided to try Jumbomax grips first, since changing grips is the easiest and cheapest thing to do, and since I've always felt "jumbo" is still a bit small. I also preferred the lighter swingweight of my previous clubs. Just wish I had thought to google "golf extra jumbo grips" years ago. lol

post #8 of 21

Changing grips is the easiest way to change the feel of impact. Impact should feel softer with less vibration. But buttery? I've only had that feeling when I hit the sweet spot with a head made for a buttery feel. My old Fusions felt good when I head the club dead on, but not buttery -- more of a jump off the face. I believe the science talked here that it is club head design and not forge vs cast. That said, I think there are more forged clubs designed for that buttery feel.

 

One guess is that the change in shafts has changed you ball striking and you miss the feet spot more.

 

If it is what I'd call "pure" feeling that you're looking for, and not what I'd call "buttery," then changing grips and shafts may give you back the feel that you are looking for.

post #9 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rustyredcab View Post
 

Changing grips is the easiest way to change the feel of impact. Impact should feel softer with less vibration. But buttery? I've only had that feeling when I hit the sweet spot with a head made for a buttery feel. My old Fusions felt good when I head the club dead on, but not buttery -- more of a jump off the face. I believe the science talked here that it is club head design and not forge vs cast. That said, I think there are more forged clubs designed for that buttery feel.

 

One guess is that the change in shafts has changed your ball striking and you miss the sweet spot more.

 

If it is what I'd call "pure" feeling that you're looking for, and not what I'd call "buttery," then changing grips and shafts may give you back the feel that you are looking for.

That's probably it. I definitely feel like it's a bit of a struggle with the stiffer shaft and smaller grip. I'm hoping the bigger grip takes care of things. It just really bothers me that most grip fitting charts tell me I need "standard" size grips. But even jumbo feels like it shifts around a bit at the top of my swing. Makes me think I'm not gripping the club right, though a local pro took a quick look and said my grip looks right. *extreme cognitive dissonance*

post #10 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by jscomp View Post
 

Hey all. :beer:

 

Years ago I put together a set of Golfsmith blades with Dynamic Gold R300 shafts and Winn wrap--the kind you actually wrapped around the shaft! lol And I wrapped it over a lady's grip instead of its own sleeve, so it came out jumbo and VERY cushiony. Eventually I felt the shafts were too flexible and I was wary of reshafting them, so I got Gigagolf blades with Dynamic Gold SL S300 shafts and Winn G8 jumbo grips (firm). But I think the shafts are a little too stiff, plus impact feels more like a spoon on wood than a hot knife through butter.

 

The Golfsmith irons were made of 1025 or 1030 carbon steel (don't remember which), and the Gigagolf ones of 1035. Is that enough to make a difference in feel through impact?

 

Does going from plush to firm grips change the feel through impact?

 

Or is it mainly the shaft flex?

 

PS - Does anyone still make a DIY wrap-on grip like Winn used to?

 

1035 is harder than 1030 and 1025, about 185 to 150. 

 

Well the SL's weight about 105

The original DG R300 is about 125 grams. So that SL

 

DG RSX EiGj

 

DG SL EiGj

 

The SL should be much more soft feeling than the Original Dynamic Gold. The tip section and transition to the mid section is similar, but the butt end is much softer on the SL shafts. 

The feel is probably because of the clubhead you chose, its probably a harder steel. That and you could be mishitting the irons because they are fitted poorly as well. 

post #11 of 21
just a thought, and it may be completely off base... when you say "years ago" i'm not sure how many years you mean...

could it be the ball? i've used the same set of irons for a long time (ping isi becu), and it seems to me that i've never been able to reproduce that "buttery feeling" you are describing with any "modern ball"... wound balata balls produced a much better "feel" off the clubface for me...

of course, i suck now (well, suck more than i sucked then a4_sad.gif ), so hitting the center of the clubface could certainly have something to do with it...

just a thought from a hack... :)
post #12 of 21
Thread Starter 

@saevel25 Wow, thanks! Very interesting. I didn't realize 1035 was about 25% harder than 1025. That probably does contribute.

 

@ccotenj I actually thought of that, too, but kinda forgot about it. We're talking around 1997-2005. I used to use Maxfli. I think they were XS Tour. I just spent a decent amount of time googling old Maxfli balls and the packaging on those rang the most bells. Whether it was the XS Tour or something else, I do remember being extremely disappointed when it was discontinued, as other balls I tried weren't as soft-feeling and didn't have that sweet, delicate click on impact. Other than extreme distance balls, they all say "soft" cover now. So that doesn't help. :/

post #13 of 21

@saevel25 ,

 

Do you have a link to the site where you got those charts?

post #14 of 21
post #15 of 21

Nice job, Matt.

 

On another issue, I am not a DG guy, but another reason people were wary of them is that they are weight sorted. The most consistent shafts in terms of a specified weight go to the Tour, and they are labeled as "Tour Issue." By the time the pecking order gets down to regular Joes, inconsistencies within a set of shafts are said to be apparent because of various weight within a set.

 

Now this is old school  - don't know if TT improved their process. But unless your club maker takes special care to sort your shafts, in the past your chances of getting a decent set that were consistent - was low.

 

FWIW, I had similar issues with Rifle w/ OEM sets - shaft stiffness was all over the place within a set..

 

I guess my old school point is that once you are a consistent player, check your set for consistency.

post #16 of 21

I agree. I talked to my previous golf instructor about getting fitted, and back when he fitted players for clubs he would sort the shafts by frequency. So if a shaft wasn't matched in the set he would set it off to the side. 

 

Kinda why I like KBS, they are able to get the frequency good because they maintain the same frequency in the specific model, just change the weight of the shaft for stiffness

 

 

If you look at the C-Taper, its just solid.

post #17 of 21

If you want to, consider the use of a shaft with a parallel tip, not taper. I don't care which brand, as this is very much true for the majority of brands.  In the trimming instructions, you will find a directly relevant detailed answer to your question. You will find the instructions for a shaft that comes blank at a combo flex of A-R or R-S or S-X. You will read between the lines that you are to trim the tip to suite the flex you desire. You will read that the range of tip trim causes the flex to move from the lower to the upper range. You will read that this range of trim is 2 inches. This is going to effect feel, or vibration, and you may tune it to suite yourself. They may say reg flex tip is 13 inches stiff is 11 for example. I think I recall that is the TT version. It might be FST (KBS)

 

If you are like so many people that wish for less stiff long irons to elevate ball flight but stiffer short irons to enhance dispersion, you will read between the lines and see that you may have a 1" trim to acquire a firm flex. You will read between the lines to see that you may trim small increments to have reg/firm or stiff/firm. The key here is that you try all that, Ho some more shafts, try  them out, and work it until that ball goes where the hell you think it should.

 

This grip insanity you have going is a curiosity. I understand grips in the love line for putters, and taking the wrists out etc. I think its stupid (I think the putt is a baby iron swing) but I understand the thinking. Has somebody convinced you that the grips don't go down into the fingers? If your grips aren't down in your fingers and you are palming the grips, doesn't this prevent you from making an acute lag angle at the top of your back swing? You need a flag if you cant go back, cause you have a flagpole sticking straight up. The lag is in the right wrist, but if you stiffen iron grips to follow big putter grip theory, you have big iron putters that fly crazy because you have reduced the two lever action inherent in a golf swing. I wear an extra large cadet glove. Short fingers, get it? I actually jam on undersized shafts. You have to get your Palm Pad on top of the stick and fingers underneath, and the bigger the grip, the more you are gonna cheat that pad to the side. Did you ever consider the choking up you see on the PGA TV? Did you ever wonder why? They are getting a very comfortable handle down lower in the smaller diameter area of the grip.

 

I currently have oem KBS tour regular shafts in my TM irons. They are 1.8 torque mid bend. You cant get the same flight from the same flex TT DG because the TT are high bend so play them a fraction softer flex to make it up if you wish. The TT DG are also  + a little torque compared to the KBS. The single most important thing is YOUR ball flight, so you adjust it accordingly. I know specifically the "Butter" you refer to, and I find mine in the TT DGR400s. I have two sets of DG R400s that I have yet to install, they are my favorite base to trim up from in flex. I think the DG is a smoother feeling shaft upon impact, but I enjoy a mid height flight design.. I can always knock a ball down when I am into the wind, its harder to float it up when the wind is behind me. 

 

The more brittle the steel (1035 steel is 35% carbon and thus less ductile) the more glassy the shaft feels, but the less torque you can have in a similar wall thickness shaft compared to 1025. Its the metal way to do what they do with low torque graphite wood shafts. Same effect, different materials.

 

Ok long way around to say Torque is Butter. But Better Butter? Thats up to you. On this chart, please dont use the minimum speed. All your "gotta make it" swings arent gonna be as hard as you can swing. I paid 600.00 for the best laser I could find. When I say my normal accurate 5 iron is 170yds, I am not fooling like so many. 

 

I hope some of this helps.

post #18 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by jscomp View Post
 

Was my post tl;dr? lol No one's really answering the questions. I guess the answer is "probably" for each. Stronger flex, smaller & firmer grip, slightly harder metal. They all probably contribute to impact feel. I was trying to figure out which is the biggest culprit.

 

As others have said, it's probably more of the shaft than the head or grip change.  

 

Also is your contact on the face similar to your previous set?  Off center hits will obviously feel "harsher" than center hits.

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