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NFL Draft Prospect Michael Sam Announces He's Gay - Page 2

post #19 of 92
I could not care less...........
post #20 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
 

Here's an interesting list of openly gay athletes.  The fact that I've never heard of the vast majority of them tells me that it's just not a big deal.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lesbian,_gay,_bisexual,_and_transgender_sportspeople

 

I just don't see the NFL as somehow different than professional soccer worldwide, wrestling, swimming, rugby, or whatever. Certainly not to the point of "monumental".  ...

 

I guess others think otherwise though.....

It's only a big deal because it's one of our major team "locker room" type sports (baseball, football, basketball, hockey) and he will be the first openly gay player in any of those sports.  (All of the people on your list who played as a pro in any of those sports, as well as soccer save for Robbie Rogers, came out after they retired)  Assuming all goes well, he gets drafted where he's supposed to, his teammates accept him, etc, etc, then it will stop being a big deal pretty quickly.

 

If it goes the other way and it turns into some sort of Richie Incognito/Jonathan Martin type thing ... then, well, you'll get sick of it pretty quickly.

 

Hopefully though, all of his teammates and coaches and fans are as indifferent as you. :beer:

post #21 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

Here's why it's different: the NFL is the dominant sport in the U.S., where we're also the farthest behind the times in accepting stuff like homosexuality.

 

If there are openly gay soccer players, great, but that kind of stuff hasn't penetrated the minds of dumbass U.S. citizens (I hate using the word "Americans" - people from Uruguay are "Americans").

 

Why is "sport" so important?

 

There are thousands of openly gay politicians, physicians, military men/women, lawyers, captains of business and industry, entertainers, etc...  Why does it elevate to the level of "monumental" just because it's a sports figure?

 

It's only a big deal if people make it a big deal.  Of course, there are plenty of people who'll do just that.  I'm just not one of them.....

post #22 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
 

Why is "sport" so important?

 

Seriously? You're not this dense (I mean that in a good way).

 

Because "sports" are full of stupid meathead jocks. So if they finally become accepting of a gay dude, it's a good sign that we're advancing as a civilization.

post #23 of 92

Yea it's called rooting interests. Everyone likes to hold up the image of the American Jock as this thing to be celebrated. When the day it all changes is when an elite NFL QB announces that he is gay. That will shocked the sports world. 

post #24 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

Because "sports" are full of stupid meathead jocks. So if they finally become accepting of a gay dude, it's a good sign that we're advancing as a civilization.

Bingo.  Could not (proof is up above) have said it better myself. :-P

post #25 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

Bingo.  Could not (proof is up above) have said it better myself. :-P

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

Seriously? You're not this dense (I mean that in a good way).

 

Because "sports" are full of stupid meathead jocks. So if they finally become accepting of a gay dude, it's a good sign that we're advancing as a civilization.

 

And if they don't, they're just a bunch of stupid, meathead jocks.  Either way, a non-event.  ;-)

 

Unfortunately, the people who make the most of it (the media) probably do more damage than good.  Ignore it completely unless it becomes an issue of bias.  But that wouldn't sell......

post #26 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post
 

Why is "sport" so important?

 

Seriously? You're not this dense (I mean that in a good way).

 

Because "sports" are full of stupid meathead jocks. So if they finally become accepting of a gay dude, it's a good sign that we're advancing as a civilization.

 

This is subjective. Opinions are not facts.
post #27 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by 14ledo81 View Post

This is subjective. Opinions are not facts.

 

Then add to the conversation instead of stating the obvious.

 

Did I generalize? Yeah, a bit, but that's only an issue if I'm generally wrong. I don't believe I am.

post #28 of 92

         Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

Seriously? You're not this dense (I mean that in a good way).

 

Because "sports" are full of stupid meathead jocks. So if they finally become accepting of a gay dude, it's a good sign that we're advancing as a civilization.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

Here's why it's different: the NFL is the dominant sport in the U.S., where we're also the farthest behind the times in accepting stuff like homosexuality.

 

If there are openly gay soccer players, great, but that kind of stuff hasn't penetrated the minds of dumbass U.S. citizens (I hate using the word "Americans" - people from Uruguay are "Americans").

         Quote:

Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
 

Yea it's called rooting interests. Everyone likes to hold up the image of the American Jock as this thing to be celebrated. When the day it all changes is when an elite NFL QB announces that he is gay. That will shocked the sports world. 

 

I've already said that I don't care about Sam's decision to come out. It's his business what he does in his private life. I don't think it was necessary to go public but whatever. The issue I see is with the above statements. So if I didn't approve, accept, and/or support Michael Sam in his sexual preference then I would automatically fall under the category of dumbass U.S. citizen? How about other players in the NFL or in NCAA football that aren't 100% accepting of this? They are just labeled "stupid, meathead jocks"? To me that seems like a sweeping generalization as does the notion that the average US sports fan is an idealist living in the past clinging to bygone notions of the straight, all-American athlete. And even if that is the case for some fans, I have to ask: why is that a bad thing?

 

I don't really understand why it is necessary for every person in America to embrace Sam like he is some sort of hero. There are a lot of reasons why people may not support this 100% and don't those people have a right to feel that way? I tend to believe that this sort of thinking is representative of an alarming trend in this country. People have such zeal to be perceived as "progressive and open-minded" that they almost militantly disregard any opinions or viewpoints other than their own. In doing so, they begin to practice the discrimination that they so vehemently claim they are against.

 

It was Sam's decision to come out and good for him if he felt like that was what he needed to do. But there's no reason to act like he is some sort of hero or condemn anyone that doesn't believe that this is one of the great acts in our history as a society. He has the right to come out, be proud, and not be discriminated against but other people are allowed to view these types of issues through any lens they choose. It's a two-way street

 

Just my two cents. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but that's what it is...an opinion.

 

 

post #29 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPtheKid View Post
 

The issue I see is with the above statements. So if I didn't approve, accept, and/or support Michael Sam in his sexual preference then I would automatically fall under the category of dumbass U.S. citizen? How about other players in the NFL or in NCAA football that aren't 100% accepting of this? They are just labeled "stupid, meathead jocks"? To me that seems like a sweeping generalization as does the notion that the average US sports fan is an idealist living in the past clinging to bygone notions of the straight, all-American athlete. And even if that is the case for some fans, I have to ask: why is that a bad thing?

 

There's a big gap between "accepting him as a person" and treating him with respect, and "embracing him like he is some sort of hero." I don't do the latter, but I do the former.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPtheKid View Post
 

People have such zeal to be perceived as "progressive and open-minded" that they almost militantly disregard any opinions or viewpoints other than their own. In doing so, they begin to practice the discrimination that they so vehemently claim they are against.

 

I don't see it that way at all.

 

Should we be racist? Is racism right? If I think someone's a butthead for being a racist, that's "discrimination" by me? I don't think so.

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPtheKid View Post
 

It was Sam's decision to come out and good for him if he felt like that was what he needed to do. But there's no reason to act like he is some sort of hero or condemn anyone that doesn't believe that this is one of the great acts in our history as a society.

 

Again, a big gap between "treating the dude with basic human respect" and "celebrating him as a hero performing a great act."

 

I couldn't care less that he came out, but I hope for the sake of our growth as humanity that it is NOT treated as a big deal.

post #30 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

 If I think someone's a butthead for being a racist, that's "discrimination" by me? I don't think so.

 

 

 

 

Certainly it is.  But not ALL discrimination is bad.  I won't let my daughter date a 40 year-old pedophile either...... 

 

We both discriminate.  Neither is bad in this case.  :beer:

post #31 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in FL View Post

Certainly it is.  But not ALL discrimination is bad.  I won't let my daughter date a 40 year-old pedophile either...... 

We both discriminate.  Neither is bad in this case.  c2_beer.gif

My dictionary defines discrimination as "unjust."
post #32 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

I don't see it that way at all.

 

Should we be racist? Is racism right? If I think someone's a butthead for being a racist, that's "discrimination" by me? I don't think so.

 

I kind of lumped your thoughts into some of what I have been reading in media stories about this as well as some thoughts others have voiced in this thread and that probably wasn't fair. However, assuming someone is stupid just because they are not accepting of someone of a different sexual orientation is discrimination. There is a very real chance that the person that is not accepting is not stupid at all. Perhaps guilty of having a strange point of view, but not necessarily a dumbass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

There's a big gap between "accepting him as a person" and treating him with respect, and "embracing him like he is some sort of hero." I don't do the latter, but I do the former.

 

 

Again, a big gap between "treating the dude with basic human respect" and "celebrating him as a hero performing a great act."

 

I couldn't care less that he came out, but I hope for the sake of our growth as humanity that it is NOT treated as a big deal.

 

Agree on the fact that I hope things like this don't continue to be treated as a big deal. My first post in this thread basically said I don't care that he did this and I wish the media wasn't providing such sensationalized coverage of the story. I think we are on the same page in that we both believe he shouldn't be discriminated against and that ideally this kind of scenario would not be a story at all.

post #33 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

My dictionary defines discrimination as "unjust."

That's one of several definitions, and one that I have no problem with.

But "unjust" is somewhat subjective, and there are people for whom the distinction blurs....
post #34 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPtheKid View Post

I kind of lumped your thoughts into some of what I have been reading in media stories about this as well as some thoughts others have voiced in this thread and that probably wasn't fair. However, assuming someone is stupid just because they are not accepting of someone of a different sexual orientation is discrimination. There is a very real chance that the person that is not accepting is not stupid at all. Perhaps guilty of having a strange point of view, but not necessarily a dumbass.

You're taking my use of "dumbass" too literally. :) I don't literally mean a low IQ or something.

But you probably knew that. And I could have chosen better words.
post #35 of 92
Gonna hurt his draft stock. Not for the fact that he is gay but all the media attention he will get.. It will be a distraction. Hope my falcons can pick him up as a steal in the 4th
post #36 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14ledo81 View Post

This is subjective. Opinions are not facts.

Then add to the conversation instead of stating the obvious.

Did I generalize? Yeah, a bit, but that's only an issue if I'm generally wrong. I don't believe I am.

I just feel that not everyone would agree that civilization is "advancing". Moving in a different direction for certain, advancing? That is subjective.
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