or Connect
TheSandTrap.com › Golf Forum › The 19th Hole › Sports › NFL Draft Prospect Michael Sam Announces He's Gay
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

NFL Draft Prospect Michael Sam Announces He's Gay - Page 3

post #37 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post


You're taking my use of "dumbass" too literally. :) I don't literally mean a low IQ or something.

But you probably knew that. And I could have chosen better words.


You're probably right about taking the term a bit too literally. Either way I think we're actually pretty close to the same viewpoint on the overall situation. Cheers. 

post #38 of 92

Sooo, what does his sexuality have to do with football again? Why do I need to know if he's gay or not?

post #39 of 92
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nututhugame View Post

Sooo, what does his sexuality have to do with football again? Why do I need to know if he's gay or not?

Does everything a football player says have to be about football?
post #40 of 92
Does everyone have to know about or care who he screws? Being as the only domain in which I would ever know him is football the only thing I need to know about him would be football related. I'm sure there's a football player out there who let's his dog lick his balls... Why would anyone want/need to know/care?
post #41 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by cipher View Post

Exactly, Robbie Rogers has been playing for the LA Galaxy as an openly gay soccer player for a year or two now as well.
Yeah, well, it is soccer eh?
a2_wink.gif
post #42 of 92
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nututhugame View Post

Does everyone have to know about or care who he screws? Being as the only domain in which I would ever know him is football the only thing I need to know about him would be football related. I'm sure there's a football player out there who let's his dog lick his balls... Why would anyone want/need to know/care?

No one has to care or even know. You're free to avoid this thread, today's news, coverage of training came for whatever team drafts him. Go for it. Have fun.

I think it's a great thing because, for better or worse, kids look up to athletes. If Michael Sam coming out makes life a bit easier for even one gay football-playing teenager, he's done a great thing. Sometime in the future no one will care because it'll become commonplace. Clearly we're not there yet.
post #43 of 92

All the protesting about how this doesn't matter and it shouldn't be news seems a little disingenuous to me.  How is it not obvious that it will be a big deal if a gay player is accepted and successful in our most popular, hyper-macho national sport that brings together huge swaths of people from all walks of life and has never had an openly gay player?  Huge portions of the country still think it's acceptable to actively discriminate against and take away the rights of gay people.  Many of those people are big football fans.  lt's a big deal.

 

These declarations read to me more like the writer is still a tad uncomfortable with true acceptance for gay people.  Like, it's cool that we don't arrest people for being gay anymore, but you shouldn't ever have to hear a man utter the word "boyfriend" or "husband".

post #44 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamo View Post

I think it's a great thing because, for better or worse, kids look up to athletes. If Michael Sam coming out makes life a bit easier for even one gay football-playing teenager, he's done a great thing. Sometime in the future no one will care because it'll become commonplace. Clearly we're not there yet.

Exactly!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdl View Post
 

All the protesting about how this doesn't matter and it shouldn't be news seems a little disingenuous to me.  How is it not obvious that it will be a big deal if a gay player is accepted and successful in our most popular, hyper-macho national sport that brings together huge swaths of people from all walks of life and has never had an openly gay player?  Huge portions of the country still think it's acceptable to actively discriminate against and take away the rights of gay people.  Many of those people are big football fans.  lt's a big deal.

 

These declarations read to me more like the writer is still a tad uncomfortable with true acceptance for gay people.  Like, it's cool that we don't arrest people for being gay anymore, but you shouldn't ever have to hear a man utter the word "boyfriend" or "husband".

Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!  Hammer, meet nailhead.:beer:

post #45 of 92
Similar to what @mdl said, I read something where the author claimed that loudly reacting to this by saying "who cares" or "this shouldn't be news" or "why should I have to know what his sexual orientation" is simply less overt form of more plainly homophobic remarks. Like, its not acceptable to be against him coming out so instead they try to bury the story. Similar to what Richard Sherman said about the word "thug". I don't think I agree with either, but I think it's an interesting point.

It's ridiculous to say this isn't a big deal. There is a punter who can't get a job because he publicly supported gay marraige. He wasn't even gay. How the nfl, and the public, react to this is important.
post #46 of 92
Ok, let me get this right... Not celebrating someone's sexuality = homophobic. Got it. What i'm getting out of this is that the same people who can't wait for the day when its not newsworthy because it'll be commonplace are the ones sparking conversations about it and making it news. And then throw out judgments on anyone who speaks to the issue. Like, not caring is a cover up for being homophobic..... Ok.I know its hard to take things at face value, but maybe...just maybe there really is a significant portion of the population who actually couldnt care less about his sexuality. That's not a good enough answer though... Can't pick it apart over the internet. Ah, must be a closet homophobic.
post #47 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by nututhugame View Post

Ok, let me get this right... Not celebrating someone's sexuality = homophobic. Got it. What i'm getting out of this is that the same people who can't wait for the day when its not newsworthy because it'll be commonplace are the ones sparking conversations about it and making it news. And then throw out judgments on anyone who speaks to the issue. Like, not caring is a cover up for being homophobic..... Ok.I know its hard to take things at face value, but maybe...just maybe there really is a significant portion of the population who actually couldnt care less about his sexuality. That's not a good enough answer though... Can't pick it apart over the internet. Ah, must be a closet homophobic.

The reason that you're wrong is that it isn't about his sexuality. It's about there being an openly gay NFL player for the first time in history.

In other words, "I don't care" can mean that his sexuality does not change your opinion of the man. That's not homophobic. But it can also mean "I don't want to hear this story." so if you're saying you don't care because it's not a big deal, that sounds like "I don't want to hear about gay people. " and thats because it's so obviously newsworthy and important.

"Hostile indifference" is the best way I heard it described.
Edited by dsc123 - 2/11/14 at 12:04am
post #48 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post
 
"Hostile indifference" is the best way I heard it described.

That is unfortunate.

post #49 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsc123 View Post


The reason that you're wrong is that it isn't about his sexuality. It's about there being an openly gay NFL player for the first time in history.

In other words, "I don't care" can mean that his sexuality does not change your opinion of the man. That's not homophobic. But it can also mean "I don't want to hear this story." so if you're saying you don't care because it's not a big deal, that sounds like "I don't want to hear about gay people. " and thats because it's so obviously newsworthy and important.

"Hostile indifference" is the best way I heard it described.

 

 

 

 


Why do I have to be "wrong"? Is there not a such thing as being able to speak your peace here? The thread title doesn't say "NFL faced with decisions to make on gay athelete's", it says "..... Michael Sam announces he's gay."

 

How you interpret what I say doesn't change what I said, it just means you're hearing what you want to hear. Terms like, "can mean,....but it can also mean" and "that sounds like" in reference to something i've said, followed by the insinuation that the real reason for what I really meant when I said it was to downplay the importance of the story are an attack on my character. And then to come back and edit the post to give it a name... "hostile indifference"....Nice.

post #50 of 92
The tricky thing here is the guy was already a mid to late round pick, so if he slides out of the draft completely the NFL can still save face and say "oh well there were guys ahead of him at his position. Im sorry but undersized late round draft picks wont do much to change the culture of the NFL. Here in the Bay Area there have been recent rumors that Colin Kaepernick is gay and was thinking of coming out. I dont buy it but if he was my answer remains the same...............I COULD NOT CARE LESS. Just beat the Seahawks!
post #51 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by nututhugame View Post
 

Why do I have to be "wrong"?

 

 

I could have been more clear, but this is the part that I was calling "wrong":

Quote:
Originally Posted by nututhugame View Post

Ok, let me get this right... Not celebrating someone's sexuality = homophobic. Got it. 
 

And its wrong for two reasons.  First, I got the sense that you were responding to what I wrote, and that's not what I said.  Second, nobody is celebrating his sexuality.  They may be celebrating his courage, or the progress that he represents, but people aren't celebrating him for his sexuality.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nututhugame View Post
 

The thread title doesn't say "NFL faced with decisions to make on gay athelete's", it says "..... Michael Sam announces he's gay."

 

You're right, it doesn't.  But if you follow the news, or  the responses here, everyone that is not of the "i don't care" mindset is commending him for his courage and expressing hope that he is accepted by the NFL.  As golfingdad said on page 1 "I get that you might not care about the sexuality of one person whom you do not know (nobody should), but that is not what this is about.  This is a monumental event in our current social landscape."  The only people making it about his sexuality are the ones loudly declaring that they don't care about his sexuality.    

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nututhugame View Post
 

How you interpret what I say doesn't change what I said, it just means you're hearing what you want to hear. Terms like, "can mean,....but it can also mean" and "that sounds like" in reference to something i've said, followed by the insinuation that the real reason for what I really meant when I said it was to downplay the importance of the story are an attack on my character. And then to come back and edit the post to give it a name... "hostile indifference"....Nice.

 

Well, that wasn't really directed at you personally.  I could have been more clear.  But I was really responding to your first line, where you clearly didn't understand the point I was making.  So the rest was an explanation of the point of view that I found interesting, though I also said that I don't necessarily agree with it.  

 

But at the same time, when you, nututhugame, say you don't care, and couple it with "keep it to yourself", a refusal to acknowledge the newsworthyness of him coming out, and compare knowing that he is gay to knowing that a man let his dog licks his balls, well, yeah, then it sounds homophobic.  I didn't, nor would I, call you homophobic because I don't know you from adam.  All I know is what you said and what those words sound like to me. 

 

Notice that the only people who are discussing his sexuality, as opposed to his courage or the NFL's reaction, are the people who are claiming this isn't a big deal.  What does that tell you?  

 

Obviously, not everyone who says "I dont care" is homophobic.  See Erik's first post, or at RonTheSavage directly above, you can see examples of "I don't care" that don't have the slightest whiff of homophobia.  But when its "I don't care if he's gay but I don't want to know about it", it starts to sound different.  

post #52 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonTheSavage View Post

Im sorry but undersized late round draft picks wont do much to change the culture of the NFL.

I don't know about this.  You might be right in the sense that the locker room culture might not be that affected if the guy is only in training camp for a week or two and ends up getting cut.  But if he makes the team, then it matters regardless of his draft stock.  It's the fact that there is an openly gay guy in the locker room.

 

But you are probably right that the necessary culture shift would happen more rapidly if somebody like Colin Kaepernick or Aaron Rodgers came out as well.

 

Then again, that is also a likely side effect of this guy coming out.  More high-profile guys out there who are still in the closet see the (hopefully) positive reaction to Sam, and it makes it that much easier for them.  Then it snowballs, everybody realizes its no big deal, and then it becomes commonplace, and we've grown as a society. :)

post #53 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by nututhugame View Post
Ok.I know its hard to take things at face value, but maybe...just maybe there really is a significant portion of the population who actually couldnt care less about his sexuality. That's not a good enough answer though... Can't pick it apart over the internet. Ah, must be a closet homophobic.

 

Not caring whether someone is gay or not isn't homophobic.  But it at best demonstrates indifference to the suffering and oppression of a part of your own community to dismiss and ignore and express displeasure with the fact that anyone is talking at all about something that is obviously a significant milestone marking the advancement of gay rights and acceptance.  It could even help nudge a few minds in the right direction.

 

I guess the point is, it's great if you couldn't care less personally about Sam's sexuality.  It's just lame if you won't acknowledge that this is a big deal and that it's worth publicly celebrating given the homophobia and oppression gay men have suffered in professional sports (and, obviously, elsewhere) for so long.

post #54 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by nututhugame View Post

Does everyone have to know about or care who he screws? Being as the only domain in which I would ever know him is football the only thing I need to know about him would be football related. I'm sure there's a football player out there who let's his dog lick his balls... Why would anyone want/need to know/care?

 

Right. Because they are alike and even remotely the same thing.:doh:

 

What this kid has done is not necessarily heroic as some have stated, but it is certainly courageous. I just hope that he can get the opportunity to downplay it when the time comes for him to fit into an NFL locker room, but I doubt the media will let it slide so quickly. I don't know if this is comparable to the Riley Cooper incident, but everybody was able to get past it in Philly once they started playing football.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Sports
TheSandTrap.com › Golf Forum › The 19th Hole › Sports › NFL Draft Prospect Michael Sam Announces He's Gay