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Stop Aiming at the Flag!!! - Page 8

post #127 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by leftybob View Post

Oh yeah the point that I forgot to get back around to...

Everyone knows the shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line. In golf the lowest score isn't always going to be found from the straightest path. TW a guy who was clearly better than everyone else on the golf course took 2 years to rebuild his swing and change his mentality from attack, attack, attack to setting the best opportunity to score well.

The hole is the final destination and not hitting directly at it is not what our brain wants to do. I speculate that it is part of our hard wiring from when we people had to hunt for their food. If we were hunting and aimed 40 feet to the left of a stationary target we would starve to death. In golf aiming 40 feet left might be the best way to setup a 2 putt for par.

We're hardwired to not aim at the flag?
post #128 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamo View Post


We're hardwired to not aim at the flag?

I think he was saying the opposite.

post #129 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamo View Post


We're hardwired to not aim at the flag?

 

I think we are very much wired to aim directly at the target.

 

"The hole is the final destination and not hitting directly at it is not what our brain wants to do." This is probably not the clearest thing I have ever written. Lets clear it up by removing an ambiguous it and the double negative and we get:

 

"The hole is the final destination. Hitting directly at the hole is what our brain wants to do."

 

If the hole was a wooly mammoth aiming at the center of the green is intentionally missing. Our brain equates missing with going hungry.

post #130 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by leftybob View Post

I think we are very much wired to aim directly at the target.

"The hole is the final destination and not hitting directly at it is not what our brain wants to do." This is probably not the clearest thing I have ever written. Lets clear it up by removing an ambiguous it and the double negative and we get:

"The hole is the final destination. Hitting directly at the hole is what our brain wants to do."

If the hole was a wooly mammoth aiming at the center of the green is intentionally missing. Our brain equates missing with going hungry.

My mistake, I read your post wrong. Missed the word "not."
post #131 of 341

I wrote it and had to re-read it twice to be sure of what I wrote.

post #132 of 341
This thread is more proof recreational golfers over estimate their abilities. I appreciate the advice, putting some numbers to it relative to handicap makes sense. I assume some research led to it. Honestly the only time I fire at a flag is when I am close enough that control is the concern not distance. Basically pitch length shots. I know how wobbly my dispersion is. I don't have one miss. For me this type of conservative play is common sense score management. Not into thrill seeking on the course. Miss the center of the green by 10 yards and you are probably still putting. Miss a sucker pin by 10 yards and you may be facing the same long putt or worse a few strokes later.
post #133 of 341
Go play with a
Quote:
Originally Posted by leftybob View Post

It's the difference between Tiger Woods in 1997 & Tiger in 2000. 97tw was crazy aggressive firing at every pin. He destroyed the masters after shooting a 40 on his first 9 holes. 97tw had no shot of winning the US open. He would land the ball a foot from the hole and end up nowhere near it. 00tw had the best year in modern golf winning 3 majors playing a totally different game. 00tw was dialed back. He wasn't firing at every pin he was going for the best leave. This could be aiming 40 feet left to leave a 15 foot up hill putt instead of going at the hole and having a 15 foot hard breaking downhill putt.

97tw was playing checkers and 00tw was playing chess.

Go play with some tour pros, they knock down pins all day.

You dont get near a tour hitting middle green.

Average miss is 22-24 feet on tour, with huge greens. If you were dead middle of every green you would be 40+ feet average distance not 22.

Middle green is good concept amateurs over scratch.

TW00 knocked down pins, he wasnt trying to hit every club full, he learned how to finesse every club by then.

20 years ago I ran into TW after he lost an amateur event to a kid I know, that kid became one of the longest drivers on tour. I'm on the toughest hole on one of the toughest courses in the area where many mini tour guys and celebs play big money games.

Im hitting a few balls to see if a dog leg can be cut on 400 yard par4.

Tw n the kid I know come up to tee, the kid says whats up, I say Im seeing if it's possible to cut the corner, I think its 280 carry to do it to front area of green.

So they both crush 3ws on the tee, I join them. i have a few balls just in front of green, TW is in front trap 10 yds longer than my driver. The bomber is 30 yards over the green.

That was a few years before he turned pro he was hitting a 3w 290 range.
post #134 of 341

Used this tip this weekend and in its small sampling was on overwhelming success.

 

Between 2 rounds I had 1 birdie, 6 pars, 3 GIRS and only 2 triples. (all better than my normal average)

 

It was a bit easier for me to use because I played 2 courses that I had not played in years and I really had no idea what the pin positions were since I purposely did not pay attention.

 

Now to see if it works on my home course next weekend.......

post #135 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by impactswing View Post

Go play with a
Go play with some tour pros, they knock down pins all day.

You dont get near a tour hitting middle green.

Average miss is 22-24 feet on tour, with huge greens. If you were dead middle of every green you would be 40+ feet average distance not 22.

Middle green is good concept amateurs over scratch.

TW00 knocked down pins, he wasnt trying to hit every club full, he learned how to finesse every club by then.

20 years ago I ran into TW after he lost an amateur event to a kid I know, that kid became one of the longest drivers on tour. I'm on the toughest hole on one of the toughest courses in the area where many mini tour guys and celebs play big money games.

Im hitting a few balls to see if a dog leg can be cut on 400 yard par4.

Tw n the kid I know come up to tee, the kid says whats up, I say Im seeing if it's possible to cut the corner, I think its 280 carry to do it to front area of green.

So they both crush 3ws on the tee, I join them. i have a few balls just in front of green, TW is in front trap 10 yds longer than my driver. The bomber is 30 yards over the green.

That was a few years before he turned pro he was hitting a 3w 290 range.

Im sorry, but I don't know how this war story of you knowing a kid that played with TW back in the day and was a long hitter and he hit a 3w over the bunker that not even TW could get over, but at least you were a little short of the bunker even though you only hit driver..

Of course you never mentioned the kids name that could out hit TW by 30 yards, but then again how this relates to the OP thread I will never know, and all of this is now and is off topic..

Help me out here what the heck are you trying to say with your war story that no one will ever be able to verify? Or will we?
post #136 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by impactswing View Post

Go play with a
Go play with some tour pros, they knock down pins all day.


You dont get near a tour hitting middle green.

Average miss is 22-24 feet on tour, with huge greens. If you were dead middle of every green you would be 40+ feet average distance not 22.

Middle green is good concept amateurs over scratch.

TW00 knocked down pins, he wasnt trying to hit every club full, he learned how to finesse every club by then.

20 years ago I ran into TW after he lost an amateur event to a kid I know, that kid became one of the longest drivers on tour. I'm on the toughest hole on one of the toughest courses in the area where many mini tour guys and celebs play big money games.

Im hitting a few balls to see if a dog leg can be cut on 400 yard par4.

Tw n the kid I know come up to tee, the kid says whats up, I say Im seeing if it's possible to cut the corner, I think its 280 carry to do it to front area of green.

So they both crush 3ws on the tee, I join them. i have a few balls just in front of green, TW is in front trap 10 yds longer than my driver. The bomber is 30 yards over the green.

That was a few years before he turned pro he was hitting a 3w 290 range.

 

I love how you quote professional golfers. Ever realize that they could be wrong as well? 

 

http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.331.html#2013

 

Average is 35', might want to do some research first, yay? 

 

how does hitting 290 3w matter to an aiming at the flag thread? You know that Bubba Watson is a top 10 driver distance, top 25 greens in regulation but bellow average proximity. He pays the price being in the rough. 

 

No pro's don't pin seek all day long. I've been to pro events. I am a student of the game, and I watch pros and their actions. They DO NOT pin seek all day long. They know the greens they know their shots, they know what they want to do. A pro rather be in the middle of the green than short sided with a difficult shot. Do they take their shots yea, but it is when weighting risk versus reward. Even Jack talked about doing the same thing, he would only pin seek if the percentages were high in his favor. Ricky Fowler talks about how his goal is to hit every green. 

post #137 of 341
I did this in my last round and shot my best score in a calendar year. I actually took it a step further and not only played to the center of the green but I also took half a club more on all approach shots. I do have agree with an earlier poster that it is not easy to shoot at the center of the green, especially with a scoring iron/wedge in hand.
post #138 of 341

Long par 3, Bubba Watson just hit to the center of the green. Dustin Johnson and Brian Harman went for the flag. Bubba has a long birdie putt, Harman is in a deep bunker and DJ is short sided in what McCord is telling me is kikuya grass. They are the top 3 on the leaderboard, wonder who makes par?

 

Edit: All 3 made par but Harman told his caddie he learned his lesson when he left the bunker. Harman had to make a 12 footer and DJ was a yard from joining him in the bunker.

post #139 of 341

The team that consistently aimed at the centers of the green today won the SoCal tournament. :-)

post #140 of 341
The OP mentioned TW, and how he didnt go for pins in his opinion in 00.

If you know anything about the pga tour, you know who ruled the distance charts for almost 15 years. You look at the charts the one year the pga's long drive champ got unseated a young kid took his crown.

Only guys Ive seen longer are the professiional long drivers.

So, TW imo will always go after pins as all tour pros do. They might keep it on a side of the hole away from trouble, but they do not aim for middle of greens.

A pro would never aim for 20 yards long on a hole where you have 45 yard green front to back and a tucked front pin.

If they have room over the pin they go 5 yds long over the pin no where near the middle.

Pros and scratch players never go middle green. They hit to pins using a pie grid. You draw circle 15 feet around the pin, you quarter it, then you pick the 1/4 of the pie with best putt. If the best putt is near trouble, they go for a quatrant away from trouble.

To say TW in 00 went middle of green hunting is wrong.

Pros aim for 15 or 25 foot circles.

150 in its 15 foot circles. From 200 in its 25 foot circles.

Pins can be 20 or more yards from a center on deep greens. That's foolish to think any pro is going 60 feet from a hole.

Anyway, pros and scratch golfers hit to areas of small circles around the pin.

Hacks should aim for center cuts not skilled players.

A bunker will not scare off a tour pro, they all got great bunker games. Now water and a penalty might make the pro aim away from the quadrant near a penalty, it wont make him go 20 yards away from a pin.
post #141 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by impactswing View Post

The OP mentioned TW, and how he didnt go for pins in his opinion in 00.

If you know anything about the pga tour, you know who ruled the distance charts for almost 15 years. You look at the charts the one year the pga's long drive champ got unseated a young kid took his crown.

Only guys Ive seen longer are the professiional long drivers.

So, TW imo will always go after pins as all tour pros do. They might keep it on a side of the hole away from trouble, but they do not aim for middle of greens.

A pro would never aim for 20 yards long on a hole where you have 45 yard green front to back and a tucked front pin.

If they have room over the pin they go 5 yds long over the pin no where near the middle.

Pros and scratch players never go middle green. They hit to pins using a pie grid. You draw circle 15 feet around the pin, you quarter it, then you pick the 1/4 of the pie with best putt. If the best putt is near trouble, they go for a quatrant away from trouble.

To say TW in 00 went middle of green hunting is wrong.

Pros aim for 15 or 25 foot circles.

150 in its 15 foot circles. From 200 in its 25 foot circles.

Pins can be 20 or more yards from a center on deep greens. That's foolish to think any pro is going 60 feet from a hole.

Anyway, pros and scratch golfers hit to areas of small circles around the pin.

Hacks should aim for center cuts not skilled players.

A bunker will not scare off a tour pro, they all got great bunker games. Now water and a penalty might make the pro aim away from the quadrant near a penalty, it wont make him go 20 yards away from a pin.

 

Actually Tiger Woods has NEVER been the top of driving distance. He's been in the number 2 spot, and a few top 10's. 

 

They do not always go for pins. Even the fact you mentioned they sometimes shade away from pins is not aiming for a pin. Pin hunting is trying to knock down flags. You can't just change your criteria to support your argument. 

 

Do Pro's try to put the ball in the best putting position, yea. I give you that they try to. They are not routinely trying to get inside of 15'. Just look at the distance to the hole average, 35' for a PGA tour player. Just saying, you'd think it would be closer. 

 

If that was true, then is is the average for proximity for a 125-150 yard shot 23', and not 15' like you say? Why is the Green in regulation percentage 71%. Pro's miss the green 30% of the time from that short distance.  Tell me again how good these guys are? 

post #142 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by impactswing View Post

A bunker will not scare off a tour pro, they all got great bunker games.

Yes, with an average around 50% saves on tour, they really like to play those odds.

post #143 of 341
Risk reward, short club to tucked pin no water every pro going at that pin.

Water one side, they go to side of pin away from penalty.

I think your avg distance hole is off, its 24 foot range.

There might be variance, distance to hole gir and overall distance to hole.

But 24 foot putts is avg from stats I remember

150 yard shot is 450 feet, pros are 95% accurate or better

More like 97% accurate on the greens they hit at 150 yds

Pros are hitting wedge or 9iron from 150

Their gir is higher from 150 than the overall avg gir

Pros start to score at 150 yds

Non pros usually get close at 100 yards
post #144 of 341
Quote:
Originally Posted by impactswing View Post

Risk reward, short club to tucked pin no water every pro going at that pin.

Water one side, they go to side of pin away from penalty.

I think your avg distance hole is off, its 24 foot range.

There might be variance, distance to hole gir and overall distance to hole.

But 24 foot putts is avg from stats I remember

150 yard shot is 450 feet, pros are 95% accurate or better

More like 97% accurate on the greens they hit at 150 yds

Pros are hitting wedge or 9iron from 150

Their gir is higher from 150 than the overall avg gir

Pros start to score at 150 yds

Non pros usually get close at 100 yards

Why is your post written in pidgin English?  Also, you have not provide reference source links to your sketchy stats.  Posters who make up stats have a 37% chance of being believed.

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