Sorry to abandon the debate, guys, just been out playing a course that actually has rough. Pitifully short at this time of the year so I apologise but it'll grow back in the summer :)
(taken a couple of hours ago at my home track...)
Originally Posted by impactswing
So to put a typical scratch player on pro tips swinging only 100mph with 450 yard and longer par 4's at sea level is a joke.
A scratch golfer is swinging a driver typically around 100mph pros are 115/125 mph
Its night and day when you have a 100mph swing against even 115 let alone 125 mph
The short pro is 30/50 yards pass you on tee shots and then 2 to 3 clubs longer every other club.
So unless you have 115 s/s and can hiit 65% of fairways, you have no chance scoring on a pga tour track, zero chance.
I really do think you're either belittling the scratch player or there is even more difference in the handicapping system between what we call scratch and what you do. I am not a scratch player and you've seen my carry numbers on a good day (and in the dead of winter). I carry the ball about 270.... So you're saying the short pro will carry it about 310 in the air and then get some roll so call it 340 yards average for a short hitter on the PGA Tour. How far exactly do you think a long hitter on tour hits it?!?
Then a Tour pro is 2 to 3 clubs past me with the irons. Here's a couple of 8 irons from a lowly amateur (check the traj, bit high but I'm clearly not hitting 5 irons here:
So the pros are all launching 8 irons 210 yards? They aren't.
Look I think the pros are very, very good. Fantastic in fact. But I do not think they are nearly as good as you are saying they are, and nowhere near as good as the PGA Tour tries to hype them up to be. They mishit shots, they duff chips, they slice the odd drive, you just rarely see it on the coverage. Seriously, go on shot tracker, pick a pro near the middle of the field but above the cut line, and run through a tournament with him, shot by shot. Even off the fairway you'll see some shockers.
Regarding the handicaps of the pros, just look at the handicaps when they turned pro of guys who managed to stay there (ie didn't lose their card), it'll give at least an idea. Just taken at random:
Sergio Garcia turned pro off plus 5, not plus 8 as was said somewhere on the forum: http://www.europeantour.com/europeantour/players/playerid=487/index.html
People like Charl Schwartzel - plus 4 http://www.europeantour.com/europeantour/players/playerid=32014/index.html
Henrik Stenson - plus 4 http://www.europeantour.com/europeantour/players/playerid=2090/index.html
Rory Mcilroy who was on top of the world amateur rankings - plus 6 but this was unusually high - http://www.europeantour.com/europeantour/players/playerid=34024/index.html
Oliver Fisher - plus 4 http://www.europeantour.com/europeantour/players/playerid=34653/index.html
Justin Rose after his epic assault on the Open as an amateur - plus 3 http://www.europeantour.com/europeantour/players/playerid=1941/index.html
All these guys went onto the tour and were mixing it with the big boys straight away (although Justin struggled as a pro even if he oddly hadn't as an amateur ?!?!?) Anyway my point is, if a plus 4 player couldn't mix it on tour none of these guys would have done...... but they did........