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Why do the pros hit it so far? Here's my take - Page 2

post #19 of 138
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 

 

As for your second question,

Look up this thread: http://thesandtrap.com/t/64681/handicap-versus-clubhead-speed-driving-distance

 

There's a plot from R&A that shows driving distance versus handicap.


I will look at this now. I appreciate your concern.

post #20 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by xerex250 View Post
 


Maybe I am off on the carry. Still, I think that most of the distance they get comes from roll and tailwind, elevation (as someone here said) and dry, downhill fairways. Maybe they do carry at least 260, not 230. maybe even 270. But rarely does someone carry 300. But most of the time they hit the ball extraordinarily far. This was just my views on it. I guess they do carry a little longer than I said, for example maybe 270, which of course, is impossible for most of us (not all of us though) Though we can increase our distance by having these factors. I don't know, but before I wrote this thread I had looked up the average carry of pros on multiple sites and it averaged about 230-240 carry. Guess I was mislead. Still, I'm probably the shortest hitter on the planet, averaging 190 on my drives to 210. My longest carry was 250. What's the average distance someone like me should have with driver? I'm 17 and been playing for about 3 years. also, I have about a 18 handicap and I don't swing too hard. any ideas?

 

Xerex

I disagree and the stats that @iacas posted are based on carry, not roll.  Just this last weekend in the Match play Championship, there were many instances where the players had to carry 270-300 yards over bunkers.  On one hole, Jason Day carried a 250 yard bunker with his 3W.  They hit a lot farther with today equipment and training.  The players were using hybrids and 5W so as not to hit it out of the fairway and roll past the 250 mark.

post #21 of 138
MAYBE? a1_smile.gif-You're off lets just settle that once and for all. If you carry the ball 230 you have ZERO CHANCE of competing on the PGA Tour.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xerex250 View Post


Maybe I am off on the carry.

MOST of their distance comes from carry.-Qyite a bit of it. Do the math. Dustin Johnson: Carry 299, Average 303. 98.7% from carry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xerex250 View Post

Still, I think that most of the distance they get comes from roll and tailwind, elevation (as someone here said) and dry, downhill fairways.

You were wildly misled.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xerex250 View Post

I don't know, but before I wrote this thread I had looked up the average carry of pros on multiple sites and it averaged about 230-240 carry.

Farther than that.-Swing harder. Figure out how to keep it on the planet later on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xerex250 View Post

My longest carry was 250. What's the average distance someone like me should have with driver? I'm 17 and been playing for about 3 years. also, I have about a 18 handicap and I don't swing too hard. any ideas?
post #22 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by xerex250 View Post
 

True I guess for some. Jack Nicklaus said he went full out on every shot and could carry 260. That was with the old equipment, though I don't see much difference between the old clubs and balls as compared to the modern stuff.

 

Then open your eyes.* :bugout:

 

* I mean that as nicely as possible. Seriously, there are HUGE differences. And Jack regularly drove the ball 260+. Don't believe everything you read. Especially if they tell you modern PGA Tour pros carry the ball 230. :P

post #23 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogielicious View Post
 

I disagree and the stats that @iacas posted are based on carry, not roll.  Just this last weekend in the Match play Championship, there were many instances where the players had to carry 270-300 yards over bunkers.  On one hole, Jason Day carried a 250 yard bunker with his 3W.  They hit a lot farther with today equipment and training.  The players were using hybrids and 5W so as not to hit it out of the fairway and roll past the 250 mark.

Yes, but remember that they were at elevation last weekend.  While I agree that the OP is severely overestimating rollout for pros, and comparing apples to oranges by using distances quoted by Jack 40 years ago ... I do think that we are a little guilty of applying the same clouded judgment to pros distances than we are to our own.

 

We hit one downhill, downwind 299 and after telling the story a few times, all of a sudden, we are able to carry it 300 yards when we need to.

 

We watch pros play in warm, dry, conditions 2000 ft above sea level, where they are hitting 350 yard drives and we assume that to be the norm as well.  It's not.

 

It doesn't pop out (and thus, doesn't stick in our brain) when they are at Pebble Beach and Zach Johnson is hitting an 8 iron 156 yards than it does when they are at Dove Mountain and hitting 200 yard 8 irons, or at Kapalua where they are averaging 400 yards on their drives on #18.

 

Don't get me wrong ... these guys hit it MILES farther than we do, just not as far all the time as we like to think that they do.

post #24 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

Yes, but remember that they were at elevation last weekend.  While I agree that the OP is severely overestimating rollout for pros, and comparing apples to oranges by using distances quoted by Jack 40 years ago ... I do think that we are a little guilty of applying the same clouded judgment to pros distances than we are to our own.

 

FWIW, I'm only considering the stats last year.

post #25 of 138

One thing I'll certainly agree with OP on is that fairways on tour courses are cut like greens on many course.  Firestone South Course has the really tightly cut, dry fairways that can produce a lot of roll IF you hit the right spot in the fairway.

 

Agree with others that today's tour pros hit it a LOT farther than Jack did in his heyday with equipment available to him.  Heck, even the 19-year-old LPGA tour pro from FL has a 272 yard driving average!  And that's more than 230 carry, I'd guess.

post #26 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by xerex250 View Post
 


Maybe I am off on the carry. Still, I think that most of the distance they get comes from roll and tailwind, elevation (as someone here said) and dry, downhill fairways. Maybe they do carry at least 260, not 230. maybe even 270. But rarely does someone carry 300.

 

Yeah just a bit off, 30-40 yards ;-)

 

How the heck can "most of the distance" come from wind and rollout when they are carrying the ball 270 yards. Take a look at Jeff Overton, his average carry is 275 and his driving distance is 293. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xerex250 View Post
 

I'm 17 and been playing for about 3 years. also, I have about a 18 handicap and I don't swing too hard. any ideas?

 

Pretty simple, you need more Keys

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xerex250 View Post
 

On tv they look small, but I've seen Bubba Watson's arms and they are larger than most. He also uses leverage very well. Most of these guys are huge, like 6' and 240 pounds. I'm only about 170 pounds and 5'4". Any other ideas on how they hit the ball so far?

 

 

I don't know what pros you're watching by most are definitely not 240 pounds.... okay maybe Colt Knost ;-)

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xerex250 View Post
 


True I guess for some. Jack Nicklaus said he went full out on every shot and could carry 260. That was with the old equipment, though I don't see much difference between the old clubs and balls as compared to the modern stuff. 

 

Come on @xerex250, you can't be serious. You do realize Jack Nicklaus has taken a staunch stance against advancements in golf ball technology because he thinks they go too far.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

Then open your eyes.* :bugout:

 

* I mean that as nicely as possible. Seriously, there are HUGE differences. And Jack regularly drove the ball 260+. Don't believe everything you read. Especially if they tell you modern PGA Tour pros carry the ball 230. :P

 

Yeah see clubs like this all the time

 

post #27 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

FWIW, I'm only considering the stats last year.

I know ... I was really only quoting Boogie to point out the rest of his post (which was all about distances from the Match Play tournament)

post #28 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by xerex250 View Post
 


Maybe I am off on the carry. Still, I think that most of the distance they get comes from roll and tailwind, elevation (as someone here said) and dry, downhill fairways. Maybe they do carry at least 260, not 230. maybe even 270. But rarely does someone carry 300. But most of the time they hit the ball extraordinarily far. This was just my views on it. I guess they do carry a little longer than I said, for example maybe 270, which of course, is impossible for most of us (not all of us though) Though we can increase our distance by having these factors. I don't know, but before I wrote this thread I had looked up the average carry of pros on multiple sites and it averaged about 230-240 carry. Guess I was mislead. Still, I'm probably the shortest hitter on the planet, averaging 190 on my drives to 210. My longest carry was 250. What's the average distance someone like me should have with driver? I'm 17 and been playing for about 3 years. also, I have about a 18 handicap and I don't swing too hard. any ideas?

 

Xerex

 

What sites were those?

post #29 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 

 

You need to also take into account that the pros hit with 80% effort. I'm sure on the driving range any of them could hit close to or more than 300 carry.

 

Look up this thread: http://thesandtrap.com/t/64681/handicap-versus-clubhead-speed-driving-distance

 

I don't think so. 

 

At least 50 guys on tour in 2013 never carried a ball 300 yards. That's what the stats say. 

post #30 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by shortstop20 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 

 

You need to also take into account that the pros hit with 80% effort. I'm sure on the driving range any of them could hit close to or more than 300 carry.

 

Look up this thread: http://thesandtrap.com/t/64681/handicap-versus-clubhead-speed-driving-distance

 

I don't think so. 


The average PGA has a 272 carry on the course with tournament conditions and roughly 80% effort.

 

I'm pretty confident that when they are dialed in on a driving range they can hit at least 10% farther, or roughly 300 yards.

post #31 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 


The average PGA has a 272 carry on the course with tournament conditions and roughly 80% effort.

 

I'm pretty confident that when they are dialed in on a driving range they can hit at least 10% farther, or roughly 300 yards.

 

At least 50 guys on the PGA Tour never carried a ball 300 yards in 2013 during competition. I won't believe they never once gave it their 100% swing. 

 

http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02409.2013.html

 

I'm skeptical of this 80% talk that is thrown around too, even though they say it.

post #32 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

I know ... I was really only quoting Boogie to point out the rest of his post (which was all about distances from the Match Play tournament)

Elevation didn't account for that much. Tucson is only at 2600 ft.  Day was hitting it much farther than the OP states.  He hits a long way and high.  The OP was grossly underestimating how far the Pros hit it in carry yards.

post #33 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post
 


The average PGA has a 272 carry on the course with tournament conditions and roughly 80% effort.

 

I'm pretty confident that when they are dialed in on a driving range they can hit at least 10% farther, or roughly 300 yards.

 

 

Actually no, I would not say they hit it 80%. I think you are applying an old tip and assuming that they are able to do that. PGA tour professionals average +/- 4-7 mph on their driver. 

 

Lets look at tour average, Villegas

 

average 113.77 mph

Max 116.71

Min: 110.63

 

I assume every pro goes at it full throttle a few times a year, and eases up a few times as well. So not hard to presume that the min and max would be close to their min and max. Even when Bubba unleashes a rip he only 4-5 mph more. 

 

So, simple math here right. (116.7 - 110.6) / 116.7 = 5.2% change. 

 

Not nearly close to your 80%

 

That would be assuming their max is 85%. Pro's swing pretty close to their max. Even if the max for them is 95%, lets just assume that swinging 100% is not possible. They are still only swinging 90%. 

 

Nah, no 80%. If 80% was assumed, then Villegas would be able to reach club head speeds of nearly 138 mph. 

post #34 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by shortstop20 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post

 


The average PGA has a 272 carry on the course with tournament conditions and roughly 80% effort.

I'm pretty confident that when they are dialed in on a driving range they can hit at least 10% farther, or roughly 300 yards.

At least 50 guys on the PGA Tour never carried a ball 300 yards in 2013 during competition. I won't believe they never once gave it their 100% swing. 

http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02409.2013.html

I'm skeptical of this 80% talk that is thrown around too, even though they say it.

Ok, I'll change 'any' to 'most', even though I've seen 17 year old PGA prospects hit monster far with roughly 80% effort.
post #35 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post


Ok, I'll change 'any' to 'most', even though I've seen 17 year old PGA prospects hit monster far with roughly 80% effort.

 

how do you know that is 80% effort? Did you measure it? 

 

Just saying. Feel isn't real, a common motto around here. 

post #36 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post

Ok, I'll change 'any' to 'most', even though I've seen 17 year old PGA prospects hit monster far with roughly 80% effort.

how do you know that is 80% effort? Did you measure it? 

Just saying. Feel isn't real, a common motto around here. 

They told me.

One kid was waiting to hit, and knew the two on the tee box. He told me both of them could have carried the brook which is about 320 to hit the far bank and bounce out.

Of course, he may have been just saying so, except he hit a 3W almost to the front edge. Chose not to drive for fear of getting in the brook. He hit about 290.
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