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Today's average golfer, what is your answer? - Page 4

post #55 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by flopster View Post
 


It could be the course you were playing is not rated very high. If your averaging 88 for all 20 rounds that's only 16 over if your course is a par 72, then your best 10 may be another 2 shots lower.


Actually, I did something wrong on my math because I realized I couldn't have been averaging that low..   I redid the math and my average of the last 20 I posted was 92.4, not 87.85..   My course is a par 72, rated at 69.8/124 from the tees I play.   So over the course of the last year, my average is was somewhere around 92-94 and my handicap is 18.0.   In 2012, when my average score was around 97, my handicap was in the 20-22 range. 

 

So I don't believe a 15 is averaging 95-100 and that is what Spitfisher stated.   I don't doubt they are capable of shooting a 95 or even a 100 (or higher) and I don't doubt they do it multiple times a season but I don't believe for a second they are averaging 95-100.  I think to be a 15, they are going to have to be averaging around an 88 or so..


Edited by teamroper60 - 2/28/14 at 10:48pm
post #56 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by flopster View Post
 


Well maybe the 100 part but I have seen plenty of 15 cappers shoot mid 90's, you have to take into account these more than likely are the throw away rounds and even a low 90 for instance on a course with a 130+ slope will get at least 2-3 shots taken away when it's indexed and then after all that it gets multiplied by .96 so shooting a low 90 is not an unreasonable score for a 15 to post and have it count toward handicap.


The problem with trying to figure out "average" scores (around here anyway) is that most rounds are played by seniors and most of the course ratings from their tees are between 65 and 67.

 

Most of the ones I know are seldom going to shoot above an 85 from those tees and plenty of them shoot in the 70s. They could fall in line with national averages on handicaps but shoot lower than what most people would consider average scores.

post #57 of 81

5

120

48

post #58 of 81
My high average is 90s, i feel good with a 42., close to breaking into 30s and I'm a 17-ish.

That's why I wondered about the 95-100. 100 would be a disaster for me.
post #59 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post

My high average is 90s, i feel good with a 42., close to breaking into 30s and I'm a 17-ish.

That's why I wondered about the 95-100. 100 would be a disaster for me.

Do you track stats? What is your avg strokes over par.

If people are going to post averages, assumed or legit, maybe they should post stats and ratings for the courses they play most to make sense of it.
post #60 of 81
Good grief I hate posting on my tablet. Sorry for any disjointed posts hard to type on this dang thing.
post #61 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post


Do you track stats? What is your avg strokes over par.

If people are going to post averages, assumed or legit, maybe they should post stats and ratings for the courses they play most to make sense of it.


Dave,

 

I have the GHIN app on my phone.   There is a part of it that will allow you to put in a handicap and then adjust the slope to anything from a 55 to a 155.    For a person with a 15 handicap, if they played a course with a slope of 155, their course index would be 21.   So while the stats you seek might mean something, I still don't think they mean a "true 15" is averaging 95-100 (again, average was the supposition).

post #62 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by teamroper60 View Post


Dave,

I have the GHIN app on my phone.   There is a part of it that will allow you to put in a handicap and then adjust the slope to anything from a 55 to a 155.    For a person with a 15 handicap, if they played a course with a slope of 155, their course index would be 21.   So while the stats you seek might mean something, I still don't think they mean a "true 15" is averaging 95-100 (again, average was the supposition).

I understsnd that. Point was to make these posts relevant regarding members hc it would be helpful to know strokes over on the courses they actually play. Here in CO courses are adjusted for altitude so quite a few sub par cr's around town. I made an effort to play higher rated courses in 2013 because I felt my index was higher than the golf I played. Mostly because due to conservation efforts in the summer courses grow the rough really long, and my scores didn't fluxuate when I played higher rated courses. My home course is rated 71.3/130 par 72 and I avg 13ish over playing to my current 10. Stuck here until we can post scores 4/15/14. I had several sub 80 combined scores and around 5 sub 80 18 hole scores and the lowest I made it was 8.8.
post #63 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lihu View Post

My high average is 90s, i feel good with a 42., close to breaking into 30s and I'm a 17-ish.

That's why I wondered about the 95-100. 100 would be a disaster for me.

Do you track stats? What is your avg strokes over par.

If people are going to post averages, assumed or legit, maybe they should post stats and ratings for the courses they play most to make sense of it.

No stats yet, not in any detail. This year, I'm learning to swing, chip and putt. Towards the Summer, I need to learn this skill. Average strokes over par is possibly about 1. I still have some doubles, and some pars to offset them.

I know how many putts per round, GIR, FIR I don't track direction of drive and the approach stats, because I have no idea how to use them. I suppose I can track all this stuff with all that extra time I'll have by not hitting extra balls.
Edited by Lihu - 2/28/14 at 11:56pm
post #64 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by teamroper60 View Post
 


Dave,

 

I have the GHIN app on my phone.   There is a part of it that will allow you to put in a handicap and then adjust the slope to anything from a 55 to a 155.    For a person with a 15 handicap, if they played a course with a slope of 155, their course index would be 21.   So while the stats you seek might mean something, I still don't think they mean a "true 15" is averaging 95-100 (again, average was the supposition).


But remember course Handicaps are "potential" so reaching that score of 93 on that 155 slope course would happen less than 20% of the time, a more common score will be close to 100. I know none of us will ever set foot on a course rated that ridiculous but if there was a situation where a 15 would average 95-100 that would probably be it.

post #65 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by flopster View Post
 


But remember course Handicaps are "potential" so reaching that score of 93 on that 155 slope course would happen less than 20% of the time, a more common score will be close to 100. I know none of us will ever set foot on a course rated that ridiculous but if there was a situation where a 15 would average 95-100 that would probably be it.


That is my point.  I agree that it is not out of the realm of possibility for a 15 to card a 100 or higher from time to time but there is a HUGE difference in shooting a number once in a while and doing it enough for that number to be their average score (the original supposition I dispute).  Since the typical 15 is not likely to be playing a course with a slope of 155 very often (at least not from the tees that have that rating), their average score is not going to be high enough to be averaging 95-100 and still be a 15.

post #66 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by teamroper60 View Post


That is my point.  I agree that it is not out of the realm of possibility for a 15 to card a 100 or higher from time to time but there is a HUGE difference in shooting a number once in a while and doing it enough for that number to be their average score (the original supposition I dispute).  Since the typical 15 is not likely to be playing a course with a slope of 155 very often (at least not from the tees that have that rating), their average score is not going to be high enough to be averaging 95-100 and still be a 15.

It would help if we knew what number you had in mind, please reveal it.
post #67 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post


It would help if we knew what number you had in mind, please reveal it.


I did in post 55 above.   I said I believed they would be averaging about an 88.

post #68 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by teamroper60 View Post


I did in post 55 above.   I said I believed they would be averaging about an 88.

Sorry missed it total pita on a tablet. For someone with an ancient CIS degree I haven't embraced tech at all. That said on what course. Using myself as the example as I mentioned I average 13ish over playing to ten. Granted my index is high due to CO ratings but I don't play with 15s averaging 88. I avg 85 at 5 points lower. The ratings here with altitude adjustment aren't 3 strokes under par. Here when I played to a 15, that was as recent as 2012, my avg scores were mid 90s.
post #69 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by teamroper60 View Post


I did in post 55 above.   I said I believed they would be averaging about an 88.

Sorry missed it total pita on a tablet. For someone with an ancient CIS degree I haven't embraced tech at all. That said on what course. Using myself as the example as I mentioned I average 13ish over playing to ten. Granted my index is high due to CO ratings but I don't play with 15s averaging 88. I avg 85 at 5 points lower. The ratings here with altitude adjustment aren't 3 strokes under par. Here when I played to a 15, that was as recent as 2012, my avg scores were mid 90s.

The courses I am prone to scoring 90 on average, are 72/130 or 70.6/126. Some 88, some 92. On 9 42 to 46 with an occasional 41 and a couple 48.

I'm about 17.3, I hope to eliminate my blowup holes and keep it around 43 on the same courses per 9 or 86 per 18 this year.
post #70 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post


Sorry missed it total pita on a tablet. For someone with an ancient CIS degree I haven't embraced tech at all. That said on what course. Using myself as the example as I mentioned I average 13ish over playing to ten. Granted my index is high due to CO ratings but I don't play with 15s averaging 88. I avg 85 at 5 points lower. The ratings here with altitude adjustment aren't 3 strokes under par. Here when I played to a 15, that was as recent as 2012, my avg scores were mid 90s.

 

I started looking around the net to see if I was way off base on what I believe a 15 capper shoots on average.   In just a couple of minutes I found this:  http://www.popeofslope.com/magazine/howtodetect.html

 

Then I found another place (tried linking to it and apparently I can't link to it from here) where a guy said he was averaging 90 with a 15 handicap.

 

Also, you must remember that we are talking about an average for people with a 15 handicap, not just an average for 15 handicaps that play tough courses.    So, since the average course is not rated the same as say, Bethpage Black, and handicaps are based off of what the USGA says is the average course ratings, one can presume that the average score for a 15 capper is not going to be based on somebody shooting 95-100 on an average course.

 

So, I might be off by a stroke or two, but not by 7-12.  


Edited by teamroper60 - 3/1/14 at 1:14am
post #71 of 81
Thread Starter 
Again I see where some of you are going with this, some providing stats and some not. Sme questioning their own handicap. I believe most will agree that a handicap in a rough sense of the word is 85% of your average score. So using a standard course rating of par 72 and course rating of slope and difficulty One could assume if the average score is 95. X 85% = 87...............87 - par 72 = 15 handicap.

Now I did understand course are more and less difficult, their is altitude and sea level course, different tees and yet others can argue and say that its not exactly 85% and that my example above is not an exact science, I get all that. I also get that guys scoring 95 are likely not playing the ball down, use gimmies, and take illegal drops.

But circling back to what the average golfer is...the subject of this thread. In order to get accurate data, you would need accurate scoring, on rated golf courses. I just don't believe you will ever get that for the masses playing golf for fun or for score. You likely won't get that ever and if you do it will be golfers that have a handicap. My conclusion with handicap is your average golfer doesn't have a real one and your average golfer with a handicap does score one acuratately or regularaliy to matter much in this exercise. Only a small percentage of golfers carry an official handicap, I'm guess at 30% and most have one as a result of being a member of a club.

So looking at our own data of what we feel, see or have an opinion of what the average golfer is its MALE, 47+ years old and shoots 98+ by their scoring and likely 109 by the assumed correct scoring.

More data is your are interested ages 10-25 years old in the past have accounted for 19% of all golfers, for 2013 the percent <11%
Rounds for 2013 are down 13% in an otherwise fair weather year across the country! no major disasters! when compared to a dismal 2012 weather and rounds played.

And yes like Dave. I find it difficult to type ona an ipad
post #72 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfisher View Post

Again I see where some of you are going with this, some providing stats and some not. Sme questioning their own handicap. I believe most will agree that a handicap in a rough sense of the word is 85% of your average score. So using a standard course rating of par 72 and course rating of slope and difficulty One could assume if the average score is 95. X 85% = 87...............87 - par 72 = 15 handicap.

Now I did understand course are more and less difficult, their is altitude and sea level course, different tees and yet others can argue and say that its not exactly 85% and that my example above is not an exact science, I get all that. I also get that guys scoring 95 are likely not playing the ball down, use gimmies, and take illegal drops.

But circling back to what the average golfer is...the subject of this thread. In order to get accurate data, you would need accurate scoring, on rated golf courses. I just don't believe you will ever get that for the masses playing golf for fun or for score. You likely won't get that ever and if you do it will be golfers that have a handicap. My conclusion with handicap is your average golfer doesn't have a real one and your average golfer with a handicap does score one acuratately or regularaliy to matter much in this exercise. Only a small percentage of golfers carry an official handicap, I'm guess at 30% and most have one as a result of being a member of a club.

So looking at our own data of what we feel, see or have an opinion of what the average golfer is its MALE, 47+ years old and shoots 98+ by their scoring and likely 109 by the assumed correct scoring.

More data is your are interested ages 10-25 years old in the past have accounted for 19% of all golfers, for 2013 the percent <11%
Rounds for 2013 are down 13% in an otherwise fair weather year across the country! no major disasters! when compared to a dismal 2012 weather and rounds played.

And yes like Dave. I find it difficult to type ona an ipad

 

95*0.85 = 80.75-72 ~> 8 handicap.

 

If we make it 95*0.95 ~> 18 handicap. Which seems about right.

 

I average about 90 and am about a 14.5 to 17 handicap. The 14.5 is based upon my low average 9 hole scores and 17 is based upon my high average scores. Since I am new to the game and have an uncertain short game, I stick to the 17.3 handicap given to me. Unless, I am competing, then the 15.

 

I think the 0.85 is the thing I am complaining about. That would create too much of a difference between the 10 rounds I throw away and the 10 rounds I keep. I think it should be 0.95.

 

Am I looking at this correctly?

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