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Let Release Happen or Force it: A question of balance

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 

If a student does not have a casting problem, and is not releasing properly, would you tell them to rotate more (let release happen) or focusing on releasing through the ball (forcing release to happen)?  Just assume everything else in the swing is normal/acceptable.  

post #2 of 20

What do you mean by release?

 

Your wrists?

The clubhead?

Your bladder?

 

I seriously have never understood what release even means. From what I understand, if you aren't releasing the clubhead naturally through the swing, you aren't swinging fast enough.

post #3 of 20
The club releases as an effect of what the golfer is doing.

If a golfer does the correct things then the proper release will happen.

Nobody who plays good golf tries to time the release on all of their shots.
post #4 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenbudda View Post
 

If a student does not have a casting problem, and is not releasing properly, would you tell them to rotate more (let release happen) or focusing on releasing through the ball (forcing release to happen)?  Just assume everything else in the swing is normal/acceptable.  

 

What's important is that the lead arm and shaft are inline at impact, not the release style. Golf ball isn't on the face long enough to impart any significant curve. If anything, "releasing" the toe more does the opposite of what you want it to do.

 

What golfer is fading it and what golfer is drawing it? (Click to show)
Fade- Left pic
Draw- Right pic

Posted that pic because I wanted to make the point that golfers think they need to release it more to draw it, just not true. Their path is the problem, not the clubface. Generally, a clubface that's | shortly after impact is often a fade and a clubface that's / at the same point is often a draw. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by midwestswing View Post
 

What do you mean by release?

 

Your wrists?

The clubhead?

Your bladder?

 

I seriously have never understood what release even means. 

 

Basically all the above LOL 

 

It is the most general and useless term in all of golf. Every golfer "releases" it. Vast majority of slicers and faders have the face aimed well LEFT of the target at impact, so you could say that slicers release it better than anyone ;-) 

post #5 of 20

When you are rotating on the downswing there should be a small delay which if you are a right hand ball striker at contact your left back pocket should be visible. Once the contact is made your lower body continues to turn unit you reach your follow though finish.I you download the V1 app onto your smartphone you shall see the pro's and the body rotations.

post #6 of 20
Thread Starter 
I have a bad feeling that everyone's jaded on this topic. lol.
 
I think I'm referring to releasing lag.  So, on your downswing, you preserve lag, and you get your hands down in front of you, right above the ball, THEN you.....what?  Isn't that called "releasing the club"?  THAT is the release I"m talking about.  I'm curious if people with good timing use their wrist muscles to assist in release, or do they hold lag and "let go" of it, letting gravity release lag versus using your wrists to do it, or is there sort of a balance (hence the wording of my title regarding balance)?
post #7 of 20

Keep in mind that a well struck ball comes from the a angle of attack. So, if you use the wrist you are slapping at the ball; which could cause fat shots.

post #8 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pharrell77 View Post
 

Keep in mind that a well struck ball comes from the a angle of attack. So, if you use the wrist you are slapping at the ball; which could cause fat shots.

 

So are you advocating "letting release happen" in the context of this post?

post #9 of 20
Thread Starter 


 

Can anyone see why would one think that you actually "do something" with your wrists?

post #10 of 20

Just from personal experience, I've fought the block/push forever.  I've had stretches of good golf trying to fix it by consciously "releasing" more, really consciously pushing the hands a bit more to close the face.  But the more permanent and effective steps in the direction of more consistently getting the face closed to where I want it (and not way beyond) have come from fixing issues elsewhere than the hands: maintaining spine angle, not dipping the right shoulder the wrong way, hip/knee bump to start the swing, rotating the hips more pre-impact while keeping the butt back and not holding my weight back.

 

In fact, as I've slowly fixed non-hands/arms issues, I find that retaining stiffer wrists to allow for a conscious push to close the face tends to overdo it and I start fighting pull-hooks.  If I get my body and rotation closer to right, I need only to let my wrists be loose and they'll close the right amount on their own.

 

@mvmac , what's the reason behind what you posted?  Is it true for straight draw versus straight fade, or just push draw versus pull fade?  For the straight draws/fades, intuitively it does seem like you need to close the face relative to the path by impact more for the draw, so you'd think that rate would continue to A8.  I know at least feel-wise, to hit a purposeful straight fade I need to feel like I'm holding my hands back or I'll tend to just hit a straight pull.

post #11 of 20
Thread Starter 

 

Another interesting point.  Listen to what Tiger says @2:14.  Dare I say that he said the words "so they can flip it, hit the ball a long ways" (and yes he did acknowledge that you can hit it further that way but you lose consistency).  My points are never "definitive" in nature.  I'm just curious as to what the thoughts are behind having active or passive wrists or whether wrists should be part of the "release" equation at all.

post #12 of 20
Thread Starter 

Also,

 

would anyone say that when you are holding decent lag, and your hands are over the ball, and, do you slow down your torso to allow the club to whip through the ball?  Or do you continue to accelerate your torso/shoulders through striking the ball?  It looks to me as if the pros have a split second stop-n-go in their swing as they strike the ball.

post #13 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenbudda View Post
 
I have a bad feeling that everyone's jaded on this topic. lol.
 
I think I'm referring to releasing lag.  So, on your downswing, you preserve lag, and you get your hands down in front of you, right above the ball, THEN you.....what?  Isn't that called "releasing the club"?  THAT is the release I"m talking about.  I'm curious if people with good timing use their wrist muscles to assist in release, or do they hold lag and "let go" of it, letting gravity release lag versus using your wrists to do it, or is there sort of a balance (hence the wording of my title regarding balance)?

 

I have never really thought about it...I've just been trying to ingrain the fundamentals, but now that you've asked the question I can't stop thinking about it lol. Thanks a LOT!! :pound:;-)

post #14 of 20
On my phone now so I'll answer more when I'm home later tonight. We like to say "lag happens", due to good sequencing and having the weight forward at impact.

There is no need to consciously "release it", it happening whether you want it or not. Club is closing and the wrist are unloading throughout the downswing. Good impact is just a moment when things line up. You don't "hold " your wrist angles and at the last minute let it go. It' would be impossible to do that unless you wanted to swing 5mph.
post #15 of 20
I agree with Mac. Don't hold your lag or consciously release the club.

Proper Lag and release are an outcome, caused by other movements. Those movements are what the golfer should focus on.
post #16 of 20

Welcome to the site @zenbudda, please make sure not to make posts within a few minutes of eachother, you have 9 minutes to go back and edit if you want to add anything. Good thread to check out about multi-quoting and stuff like that.

 

 New to The Sand Trap? Little Things Members Expect and Ask of Fellow Members 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenbudda View Post


 

Can anyone see why would one think that you actually "do something" with your wrists?

 

The work Donald has been doing with Chuck Cook has been to lessen that "rolled" look. Help him hit the ball higher and less heel cuts with the driver.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdl View Post

 

@mvmac , what's the reason behind what you posted?  Is it true for straight draw versus straight fade, or just push draw versus pull fade?  For the straight draws/fades, intuitively it does seem like you need to close the face relative to the path by impact more for the draw, so you'd think that rate would continue to A8.  I know at least feel-wise, to hit a purposeful straight fade I need to feel like I'm holding my hands back or I'll tend to just hit a straight pull.

 

The pic I posted? I was trying to nip the whole "release it" to draw it, or "slicers don't release it enough", in the bud before it started. Show that the release style doesn't have any effect on how/why the ball is curving, maybe I got ahead of myself lol

 

Yes you need to have the face closed to the path but it's tough to do that when most golfers are swinging left. So if the path is 7 degrees across the ball, they have to close it 8-9 degrees to make it draw. Low pull draws (when you're able to close the face enough) is not really a way to play functional golf.

 

Much easier in the long run to have the face closed to the path by having the path OUTward enough so the face can be aimed a little right of your final target at impact.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenbudda View Post

 

 

Another interesting point.  Listen to what Tiger says @2:14.  Dare I say that he said the words "so they can flip it, hit the ball a long ways" (and yes he did acknowledge that you can hit it further that way but you lose consistency).  My points are never "definitive" in nature.  I'm just curious as to what the thoughts are behind having active or passive wrists or whether wrists should be part of the "release" equation at all.

 

Got to be careful what a player feels and what is really happening. Very, very rare to find a good player that lines up the lead arm and shaft before impact. The feeling of a flip might work for Tiger because he can tend to have too much lean at impact. Pretty good examples on inline impact here though.

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenbudda View Post
 

Also,

 

would anyone say that when you are holding decent lag, and your hands are over the ball, and, do you slow down your torso to allow the club to whip through the ball?  Or do you continue to accelerate your torso/shoulders through striking the ball?  It looks to me as if the pros have a split second stop-n-go in their swing as they strike the ball.

 

Slowing down the torso only makes things worse. Clubhead "overtakes" the hands at a faster rate.

 

 

post #17 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BENtSwing32 View Post
 

 

I have never really thought about it...I've just been trying to ingrain the fundamentals, but now that you've asked the question I can't stop thinking about it lol. Thanks a LOT!! :pound:;-)

 

I'm a little distracted by your avatar.  :-/

post #18 of 20
Thread Starter 

mvmac, thanks for your reponses.  

 

so now that we have the "release happens" philosophy on the table, and you posted a picture of lining up your arm with the club (with a slight shaft lean I might add), this suggests to me that when you turn your torso and shoulders on the down swing, the closer you get to impact, the higher you have to get your left shoulder (for a right golfer).  In this case, for someone who is not used to this position, it will most likely feel like you are literally swinging under the ball?

 

So the combination of twisting the hips and torso, and causing that last minute elevation of the left shoulder (for right handed golfers) will automatically cause proper lag to release?  I need to video tape my front view swings.

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