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Malaysian Airlines Flight Missing, Presumed Crashed - Page 2

post #19 of 165

Ooops.  The Malaysian PM has invoked Allah to explain the missing airplane. But why Allah chose that plane has not been answered. 

post #20 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by joekelly View Post
 

Ooops.  The Malaysian PM has invoked Allah to explain the missing airplane. But why Allah chose that plane has not been answered. 

 

It is always irrational when supernatural beings are brought in to explain earthly happenings. Whatever side of the pond it is.

post #21 of 165
Finally, they retired 370 & 371 flight nos.
post #22 of 165

The WSJ is saying the plane flew for four hours after we lost contact with it. But the Malay Mail Online is disputing that now. 

post #23 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

 (I'd go with my aliens theory long before I'd buy that a passenger jet ever gets shot down)

 

 

But you remember KAL Flight 007 (September 1983) and Iran Air Flight 655 (July 1988), don't you?

 

Unless you're just referring to the context of this particular set of circumstances.

post #24 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missouri Swede View Post
 

 

But you remember KAL Flight 007 (September 1983) and Iran Air Flight 655 (July 1988), don't you?

 

Unless you're just referring to the context of this particular set of circumstances.

No I don't ... but I will go google them right now. ;)

 

OK ... now I've caught up on those. :)  So then, now that I know, I would answer yes to the second comment.  Definitely different circumstances.  I don't mean to say that what happened to those two jets couldn't have happened to this one - it certainly could have - but I wasn't considering that type of scenario when I made my statement.

 

I was saying that I could never imagine somebody making the decision to shoot down a civilian airplane ON PURPOSE with the reasoning being that they were trying to save lives.  I get that it's possible that a civilian jet could crash in a populated area and kill all on board plus more on the ground, but I don't think that any sane person would ever think that it was such a given that all on the plane would die + more, such that shooting them down would be prudent.

 

Examples off the top of my head would be AA Flight 587 and US Airways Flight 1549.  Both of them crashed in New York City, one right smack dab in the middle of Queens all on the plane plus 5 on the ground, the other killed zero on the ground or on the plane.  If people are shooting down planes that pose a risk to people on the ground, and there are very few areas more densely populated than New York City, and the decision has to be made well before they know for sure exactly where that plane might crash, then how would you ever justify intentionally killing a bunch of innocent people when you have no guarantee that they were going to die, AND you have no guarantee that anybody else was going to die either?

 

That is the scenario I was objecting to.  However, I didn't consider the possibility, like your examples, that it could be accidentally shot down.  Nor did I consider that Malaysia and/or Vietnam are not the United States.


Edited by Golfingdad - 3/13/14 at 5:27pm
post #25 of 165
New news, I guess: http://abcnews.go.com/International/us-officials-malaysia-airline-crashed-indian-ocean/story?id=22894802
Quote:
Two U.S. officials tell ABC News the U.S. believes that the shutdown of two communication systems happened separately on Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. One source said this indicates the plane did not come out of the sky because of a catastrophic failure.

The data reporting system, they believe, was shut down at 1:07 a.m. The transponder -- which transmits location and altitude -- shut down at 1:21 a.m.

This indicates it may well have been a deliberate act, ABC News aviation consultant John Nance said.

U.S. investigators told ABC News that the two modes of communication were "systematically shut down."

That means the U.S. team "is convinced that there was manual intervention," a source said, which means it was likely not an accident or catastrophic malfunction that took the plane out of the sky.
post #26 of 165

I don't think they know for sure, seems the  focus is on the following;

  • Policy to allow cockpit visits on that particular airline and captain
  • potential to access flight control systems from the passenger wifi network
  • stolen / forged passports for two passengers

 

The latest chatter seems to indicate that hijacking is a likely scenario.  Still no word on where the plane ended up which seems strange since there are only so many landing options for a plane that size.

post #27 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

I don't think they know for sure, seems the  focus is on the following;

  • Policy to allow cockpit visits on that particular airline and captain
  • potential to access flight control systems from the passenger wifi network
  • stolen / forged passports for two passengers

 

The latest chatter seems to indicate that hijacking is a likely scenario.  Still no word on where the plane ended up which seems strange since there are only so many landing options for a plane that size.

 

I keep seeing the words "air piracy" thrown about but little in the way of explaining the term. There are oil pirates in the 4 four zone NE(?) of the takeoff point, but what does that have to do with air pirates?

post #28 of 165

Some new details;

  • the plane reached a waypoint  that was on it's original flight plan and then turned its transponders off.
  • The transponders were turned off at different times with enough of a lapse in time that it indicates it was done manually versus an explosion
  • Rolls Royce confirmed that if one of the engines were turned off, the flight time could have been increased by as much as 4 hours
  • This is a new flight plan they believe the plan followed.  The flight was an overnight flight so passengers may not have know the flight changed course.

  • What's interesting about this flight plan is that as designed, it would avoid any civilian radar detection and most known military radar as well.  The transponders were turned off at the Igari waypoint.
  • The pilot was photographed with kids and female passengers inside the planes cockpit which indicates cockpit access from hostiles was possible.
  • Thoughts are that given the flight plan, turning off of transponders, etc that this was done by someone with a lot of knowledge about the planes which means the pilot and co-pilot are under suspicion as well (suicide).
  • The flight was not full but passenger count was limited due to excessive cargo.  To this point the cargo contents or owners are not being shared with the public

 

Overall the feeling among the "informed" is many of the details are being withheld or obfuscated to prevent anyone outside of government from figuring out what why the plane is missing and where it could have landed, crashed or been shot down.

post #29 of 165
It all seems to have occurred so precisely. The transponders and other transmission systems were turned off just as they left Malaysian radar coverage, and before entering Vietnam's. A left turn executed right afterward, staying out of reach of civilian air systems. The flight routes used aligning with common airline routes so as to minimize suspicion.

If all this info leaking out is true (a big if), this was a deliberate and well-planned action by the pilots of the aircraft.

And whether or not it was commandeered by pilots other than the Malaysian Airlines pilots, I don't know , of course. Hard to imagine that anyone else on board would have the capability to conduct a violent takeover of the craft and then coolly execute the mission as described above with perfect timing. In Hollywood maybe, not in real life.

Mystery just deepens every day.
post #30 of 165
If one steals a 777 what can one do with it? Is there money in stripping it? Are the guidance systems, engines, etc... resellable? What was in the cargo hold? I think there were lithium batteries?
post #31 of 165

I read today that it could have flown for 7 hours after the last contact. So it can be anywhere now. 7 hours is a long way to go

post #32 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by mchepp View Post
 

I read today that it could have flown for 7 hours after the last contact. So it can be anywhere now. 7 hours is a long way to go

That's correct, the original assumption was that it was flying below civilian radar but now they believe it's altitude was above civilian air space and therefore it could travel longer, up to 7 hours.

post #33 of 165

I'm looking at the pilot's youtube page in an attempt to psychologically profile him. He's mostly thumbs up'd comedy videos, videos that promote atheism, and videos that promote free thought and creativity. His five video uploads show a technical appreciation for tinkering with hardware. He also liked several videos that teach you how to jailbreak an iphone or use SSH.

 

I dunno, besides the technical likes and uploads -- which could correlate with the speculation that the person who disabled the various internal systems of MH370 had to be an expert at what he was doing -- there isn't a whole lot here to point to him being the guy. That said, we can't rule anything out at this point. But I mean... one of the people this guy subscribes to is Sarah Silverman... I just can't see someone who would subscribe to Sarah Silverman, Richard Dawkins, Comedy Central, TED Talks, and Eddie Izzard as being capable of intentionally diverting this plane for nefarious purposes...

 

But then again, who really knows.  

 

 

Zaharie Shah's Youtube Page

post #34 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFan1983 View Post
 

I'm looking at the pilot's youtube page in an attempt to psychologically profile him. He's mostly thumbs up'd comedy videos, videos that promote atheism, and videos that promote free thought and creativity. His five video uploads show a technical appreciation for tinkering with hardware. He also liked several videos that teach you how to jailbreak an iphone or use SSH.

 

I dunno, besides the technical likes and uploads -- which could correlate with the speculation that the person who disabled the various internal systems of MH370 had to be an expert at what he was doing -- there isn't a whole lot here to point to him being the guy. That said, we can't rule anything out at this point. But I mean... one of the people this guy subscribes to is Sarah Silverman... I just can't see someone who would subscribe to Sarah Silverman, Richard Dawkins, Comedy Central, TED Talks, and Eddie Izzard as being capable of intentionally diverting this plane for nefarious purposes...

 

But then again, who really knows. 

 

 

Zaharie Shah's Youtube Page

Initially there was a lot of talk within pilots and ATC forums that the pilot may have done this as a suicide mission but masking what occurred so that his family would still collect on the insurance policy.  There also was some discussion that the pilot had a full 777 simulator in his house but there was a question as to whether that was normal behavior for a pilot with 18,000 hours of flight time.

 

One thing that is pretty certain is flight and cockpit security is not as tight in Malaysia as it is in the US.  

post #35 of 165

So plane went somewhere on one of the two arcs. If the top one, it had to land before getting too inland. If the bottom, there is a tiny island with an airport near Australia.

 

Sunday press conference for more details on search of pilot's house.

 

post #36 of 165

I've found myself so intrigued by this story, I'm actually reading pilot forums looking for informed conversation on this matter (present company excluded of course). Just an absurd story. 

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