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Patrick Reed - Is he arrogant? - Page 5

Poll Results: Arrogant?

 
  • 54% (50)
    Yes
  • 45% (42)
    No
92 Total Votes  
post #73 of 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post


So what's the criteria now? You don't have to beat all of the best in a big tournament ... That's just not enough. You have to "crush" them? It's gotta be "x" number of shots?

It's not a matter of criteria, it's just how that tournament played out.  Reed played well, he deserved to win.  My point was that he didn't have to face the full pressure of Sunday golf with guys breathing down his neck because he built himself a decent lead.  We've ripped Tiger a bit for his poor performance on the weekends, especially on Sundays, I'm applying the same logic to Reed.

 

It was a great win, but it wasn't a showcase for how he'll handle the pressure of a Major or tournament where he's got to play his best on Sunday to keep the field from catching him or to catch the leader.

post #74 of 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
 

OR he's an honest guy who admits what he thinks is true.

This.

 

Anybody who thinks that any of the top players on the PGA tour don't all THINK that they are one of the best is crazy.  Yet so many of those same people get all bent out of shape when one of them answers a direct question about it honestly, and without putting it through his internal PR/cliche filter.  (Likely because as an unpolished 23 year old, he doesn't yet have one)

 

So, in effect, what they're basically saying is that they'd like him more if he lied to them.

 

I, personally, think honestly is quite refreshing.

post #75 of 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

I disagree that it's obvious that he isn't anywhere near that level because (and this goes directly against your second sentence here) he is already exactly the 20th best player in the world according to these guys.

 

Is there?  Isn't it exactly the same thing, just over varied, yet equally arbitrary, time frames?  #5 in the world in the OWGR is the "hottest" player over the course of the last two years.  One could argue that what you did 23 months ago shouldn't have a lot of bearing over where you rank in the world.

 

I already discussed this on the tournament thread, but I don't think you can separate him from the rest of the field and give him less credit because he wasn't pushed.  A large part - a very large part - of the reason why he wasn't pushed was because he put himself in a position to not be pushed.  He outperformed the toughest field of the season over 72 holes.  And he REALLY outperformed them for 67 or so holes.  Who cares if it was the first 67 holes?  I mean, what's the difference if he shoots +2 on the first 5 holes Thursday, then -6 over the next 67 holes?  Either way, he finishes -4 and beats everybody.

 

I understand that hes ranked 20th in the world now but you can't tell me that doesn't mean he'll be there for long. Could he continue to move up, absolutely. But he could just as easily not touch a top 20 for a few months and be back outside the top 20, heck the top 50. My point is prove it over the long haul, not over a 7 month period when most of the big boys were at home sitting on the couch. No body is calling Russell Henley a top 5 golfer or even hinting he'll be in that upper echelon and he just won last week and has multiple victories and a well known college and amateur career. 

 

Golf is such cyclical sport. Its a fascinating sport to me because you can get to know a guy in one weekend, root for him to win the tournament and then never hear from him again on tour(or hear very little). There are so many examples of this. You don't just become a top 5 player in the sport by winning a few tournaments in under a year. You can't just say that and disrespect all the other guys who have been on Tour for much longer who have done the same things as you if not more accomplishments while staying relevant at the top of the game. 

 

Golf is humbling and I think Zinger said something about this on twitter after Reed's comments saying basically, let reed have his time cause we all know the wave comes crashing down again, just a matter of if he can get back up and ride. So basically he'll falter at some point when in contention (maybe soon), he'll probably get hammered for it in the media and will he be able to get back up and get back into contention again in the future. Its happened to every pro and some have and others haven't. (hey Mr Duval hope ESPN pays well)

 

Its very different to be a hot player in a short amount of time rather than a consistently top 5 or top 10 player in the world. 

 

Just look at recent examples within the last couple years of guys who climbed to the top and couldn't stay there. Where's Luke Donald these days? What about Lee Westwood? What about Martin Kaymer? All were former number ones in the game and all are very much doing what these days? Westwood hasn't won on the PGA Tour since 2010 and hasn't won worldwide since 2012. Donald hasn't won on a major tour since 2012 and Kaymer has done nothing of note in over 2 years. Sure they are still competing in high level tournaments but they are exactly the example to show how easy it is to fall from the top of the game and how hard it is to get there and stay there. 

Remember Billy Horschel and his run last spring. He was a walking top 10 and I don't think missed any cuts till after the US Open and had a break through win at Zurich. In fact I believe he made 23 straight cuts. Since his high finish at the US Open he's done nothing of note at all. He looked like a lock to get a spot on the Presidents Cup team and surely was touted as one of the better young Americans. I believe he's only had one top 10 since his T4 at the US Open. 

 

Golf has more flashes in the pan than any other sport and too me right now I don't think its fair to guys that have been out there for years and years to call Reed anything other than that till he proves it over a long stretch of time. 

post #76 of 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernest Jones View Post
 

Yeah, that's just dumb. 

Meh, it's like Lebron choosing the #23 right away when he was young. I don't hold anything against him or Reed. 

post #77 of 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

Maybe I am a bit jaded or old fashioned (if you can be at 48).

 

I don't think it's appropriate to wear a golfers "colors" to pay homage to the person if he's still active on the Tour.  If Tiger was retired or on the Champions Tour and Reed wanted to do so then I'd say it's an homage.  Wearing them while competing against Tiger might be possibly considered disrespectful unless he spoke to Tiger and Tiger told him he didn't care.  Imagine both of them in a final pairing walking down the fairway together looking like twins, could be awkward for both.

 

I do agree that Tiger doesn't "own" those colors but Reed acknowledged those are Tigers colors on Sunday, so he's aware of what he's doing.

 

He's attention seeking, there's no question about that and I don't dislike him for it, I just think it could work against him.

 

 Who created that image of Tiger? The fans did. So honestly I could care less if it offends Tiger. I don't think it does. I don't think Tiger gives a damn about it. The only people who do are his fans because they think it is a smack in the face to Tiger. I believe the reason Tiger wears red is because his mom said it was a powerful color. If I am remembering that right. Besides that, fans created the mystique of Tiger's Red and Black on Sundays. 

 

Of course he's aware of what he is doing. He wants to be the best, so why not emulate the best. You don't think Kobe Bryant stole every one of MJ's moves he could possible do. Even MJ himself said Kobe stole them. MJ was alright with that, because for one thing its an honor to be emulated by your pears. 

 

To grab at straws saying it it attention seeking is beyond the scope of anyone here. 

post #78 of 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

It's not a matter of criteria, it's just how that tournament played out.  Reed played well, he deserved to win.  My point was that he didn't have to face the full pressure of Sunday golf with guys breathing down his neck because he built himself a decent lead.  We've ripped Tiger a bit for his poor performance on the weekends, especially on Sundays, I'm applying the same logic to Reed.

 

It was a great win, but it wasn't a showcase for how he'll handle the pressure of a Major or tournament where he's got to play his best on Sunday to keep the field from catching him or to catch the leader.

The guy hit a 4 iron about 215 yards that didn't even reach the fairway on the final hole. If he was forced to pull driver by anyone in the field not choking down the stretch (still can't believe Donaldson layed up at the 16th hole) it would have been a different story. 

 

He won the tournament fair and square (much the way Tiger has won many tournaments). Pedal to the medal for 3 rounds and coast home. The difference is Tiger has also won with guys breathing down his neck or having to sink big putts on the final hole. Reed had none of that. Can't blame the kid because no one in the final groups came to play but I think you have to tone the excitement a little bit as a fan or analyst of the game till he can do it with someone staring him down. 

post #79 of 349

Just saw the poll.

 

Voted "no."

post #80 of 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

We've ripped Tiger a bit for his poor performance on the weekends, especially on Sundays, I'm applying the same logic to Reed.

Not when he wins the tournament, though.

 

Except for extreme cases - where Tiger whens the US Open by 15 shots, or the Masters by 12, or Rory wins the US Open by 8 - nobody remembers or cares how the tournament was won.**  Whether you had the lead going into 18 and made a bogey that didn't cost you, or you were tied going into 18 and made a birdie (or your opponent made bogey), its all irrelevant.  You won the tournament, and that is all that matters.

 

**If it mattered than much then we should be worshipping Charl Schwartzel for how he won his Masters (birdie-ing 15, 16, 17 and 18 on Sunday), but instead, we just remember that he won the Masters.

post #81 of 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by saevel25 View Post
 

 

 I believe the reason Tiger wears red is because his mom said it was a powerful color. If I am remembering that right. Besides that, fans created the mystique of Tiger's Red and Black on Sundays. 

 

 

Huh, wow. I never knew that. I always thought it was because he played at Stanford. Cool little tidbit. 

 

BACK TO TOPIC

post #82 of 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post
 

Not when he wins the tournament, though.

 

Except for extreme cases - where Tiger whens the US Open by 15 shots, or the Masters by 12, or Rory wins the US Open by 8 - nobody remembers or cares how the tournament was won.**  Whether you had the lead going into 18 and made a bogey that didn't cost you, or you were tied going into 18 and made a birdie (or your opponent made bogey), its all irrelevant.  You won the tournament, and that is all that matters.

 

**If it mattered than much then we should be worshipping Charl Schwartzel for how he won his Masters (birdie-ing 15, 16, 17 and 18 on Sunday), but instead, we just remember that he won the Masters.

I'm giving him full "props" for winning last week.  My only point is the win didn't demonstrate how he'll handle the pressure of a Major or a Sunday where he's really got to play at his best.  Somehow you think I'm short-changing his win and all I'm saying is there's still a lot to learn about this kid before I'm ready to anoint him "Top 5".

post #83 of 349

Some of us just enjoy athletes that don't boast about their accomplishments.  It's not against the law to be arrogant, but it does turn a lot of people off when a person consistently tells you how great they are.  

 

I'll say it again- If you want an example of a really solid, up and coming player that knows how to exhibit class and respect for the game, see Russell Henley.  He's 1 year older than Reed, has almost as many accomplishments, and is very humble.  When it comes down to it on a Sunday, that's the type of guy I root for.  

post #84 of 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post
 

I'm giving him full "props" for winning last week.  My only point is the win didn't demonstrate how he'll handle the pressure of a Major or a Sunday where he's really got to play at his best.  Somehow you think I'm short-changing his win and all I'm saying is there's still a lot to learn about this kid before I'm ready to anoint him "Top 5".

That's fair ... although I think you should give him kudos.  Right @Ernest Jones ?? :banana:

 

And I don't think anybody here is anointing him as being Top 5.  We're simply saying that we don't think it's a big deal that he thinks that.  Nor is it a big deal to me that he's honest about telling us that he thinks that.

post #85 of 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by albatross View Post
 

Is this a serious question?  Anyone that rambles off their list of accomplishments 3 minutes after winning a PGA event, is arrogant. Period.  


I just wonder.... What if Tiger rattled off his list of accomplishments and said  that he was better than everyone else that played in the event, except of course the "other" legends.  Even though Tiger is top 5 without a doubt and accomplished all these things could you IMAGINE the backlash!  They would have customized a cross just for him and publicly crucified him on it.  They would have burned him alive and made s'mores over the simmering flames as they slowly died and revealed the remains of Tigers charred body.

post #86 of 349

I can easily say this kid is arrogant as hell, but like Richard Sherman in his post-Super Bowl interview it's a breath of fresh air. I'm so sick and tired of the PC, canned responses. Show some damn raw emotion and answer questions off the hip with how you really feel - not what will sell your brand and put your Wheaties posters in the bedrooms of kids everywhere. I would much rather see somebody speak with raw emotion and open answers than the typical "Well... I feel great..., you know, I just went out there and played really well against great competition.". I'll respect someone for being themselves before answering questions the way their PR manager thinks they should.

post #87 of 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by albatross View Post
 

It's not against the law to be arrogant, but it does turn a lot of people off when a person consistently tells you how great they are.

I can't argue with you on this, because based on this thread, you are obviously right.  I think it's a lot different, though, when you answer a direct question honestly, and then try again when asked another direct question a few days later.  He's not just grabbing a mike and standing on a pedestal, he's just a kid trying to answer questions people are asking of him.  Is he answering them perfectly?  Probably not, but he's trying to answer them honestly, and that is really all I ask.

 

I much, much, much prefer this over the old Tiger style of dealing with the media ... you know, those standoffish, one word, "I ****ing dare you to aks me that stupid-ass question again" type answers.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by albatross View Post
 

I'll say it again- If you want an example of a really solid, up and coming player that knows how to exhibit class and respect for the game, see Russell Henley.  He's 1 year older than Reed, has almost as many accomplishments, and is very humble.  When it comes down to it on a Sunday, that's the type of guy I root for.

Yeah, I really like Henley.  And I haven't heard him speak much - because nobody's chosen to make a big deal out of it** - but he does seem pretty quiet, unassuming, and humble.  Good for him.  That works for him, and I like it too.  In fact, I was rooting for him at the end last week too.  But I'm also rooting for Reed, and think that - at least for now - the "brash" route is working for him.

 

**NBC only chose to air those comments on Sunday because he was winning and they knew it would get people talking.  They basically created this monster by airing the comment, then opining on it, then re-asking the question again immediately after he won the tournament.  Who knows how many other guys have exhibited a bit of confidence or even arrogance at one point in their early careers (maybe Billy Horschel, or even Russell Henley, or one of a thousand other guys) only for it to just fall by the wayside because Johnny Miller wasn't there to decide to make a big deal out of it.

post #88 of 349

Is he arrogant?  Yes.

 

Do I care?  No.

 

We don't remember Muhammad Ali because he said in his press conferences, "That was a tough fight against a good opponent, and I'm just lucky to escape with the win."

post #89 of 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtogolf View Post

Maybe I am a bit jaded or old fashioned (if you can be at 48).

I don't think it's appropriate to wear a golfers "colors" to pay homage to the person if he's still active on the Tour.  If Tiger was retired or on the Champions Tour and Reed wanted to do so then I'd say it's an homage.  Wearing them while competing against Tiger might be possibly considered disrespectful unless he spoke to Tiger and Tiger told him he didn't care.  Imagine both of them in a final pairing walking down the fairway together looking like twins, could be awkward for both.

I do agree that Tiger doesn't "own" those colors but Reed acknowledged those are Tigers colors on Sunday, so he's aware of what he's doing.

He's attention seeking, there's no question about that and I don't dislike him for it, I just think it could work against him.

A golfers colors? What's next, gang signs? Geez leave the fashion police stuff to Joan Rivers.
post #90 of 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by ztexz View Post
 

Is he arrogant?  Yes.

 

Do I care?  No.

 

We don't remember Muhammad Ali because he said in his press conferences, "That was a tough fight against a good opponent, and I'm just lucky to escape with the win."

Good post, I have no issue with his arrogance if he backs it up.  Ali and Sherman are great examples of guys who talked up a big game and backed it up when they had to.  If Reed can do that I'll be a fan.

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