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Problem hitting Sand Wedge from fairway - Page 2

post #19 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwestswing View Post
 

While I agree that statistically that you will make more five footers than seven, there is no way I would agree that a partial swing is as accurate distance wise as a full swing. This is proven every day on tour that pros don't lay up to awkward yardages. If the theory that the closer you are, the closer you hit it were true, no pro would ever lay up on a par five, EVER.

 

 

Really, then why does a PGA tour players GIR percentage drop when they increase their yardage from 75 yards to 100 yards? 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by midwestswing View Post
 

When I see golfers struggle from inside full swing range it's because they are GUESSING what size of swing will produce the correct distance.

 

 

Wrong again. Its that the have poor technique, it is about guessing. If a player has proper technique they can develop distance control. With out it, they are guessing, but it isn't because of the size of the swing. Its due to lack of quality contact. So they are not guessing on distance control, they are guessing because their contact fluctuates. They wonder why sometimes the same swing length produces two different shot lengths. 

post #20 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwestswing View Post
 

When I see golfers struggle from inside full swing range it's because they are GUESSING what size of swing will produce the correct distance.


When I see people that aren't good at less than full shots it's because they can't hit the ball consistently with reliable impact.

 

For "distance control" I simply hit the ball as hard as it takes to get there. Nothing more and nothing less. I'm not "guessing" anymore than I would be guessing how hard to throw one ball to the second baseman and another ball to the center fielder from home plate, or about a hundred other examples I can think of in sports where we just see the target and hit or throw a ball to that target.

 

Not making reliable impact would be about like trying to make said throws with a catcher's mitt on the throwing hand.

post #21 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwestswing View Post
 

While I agree that statistically that you will make more five footers than seven, there is no way I would agree that a partial swing is as accurate distance wise as a full swing. This is proven every day on tour that pros don't lay up to awkward yardages. If the theory that the closer you are, the closer you hit it were true, no pro would ever lay up on a par five, EVER.

 

Pros lay up on par 5s because of the risks of hitting it longer.  A pro lays up if the shot required to get to 50 yards allows only a 3% error with a 3w but the shot required to get to 125 yards allows a 10% error with a 4i.  They are most certainly not laying up because they'll be closer on average from 125 yards out than from 50 yards.

 

The only time I'd recommend laying up to full swings is if a player is new to the game and only ever practices full swings and has absolutely no idea how far any shot attempted at less than he hits the his shortest wedge with a full swing is going to go.  Or if a player is out on the course and has a particular block going on right then and wants to avoid particular partial shots for the rest of the day.  But it's not that hard to learn at least one reliable shot from 50 or 70 yards that will be closer on average than a full SW, so that player should commence practicing such shots as soon as possible because you're giving away strokes feeling more comfortable from 125 yards than from 50. 

post #22 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post
 

When I see golfers struggle from inside full swing range it's because they over-complicate the shot by trying to finesse it attempting anything but a stock pitch.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

It's a bit funny because I'm writing this section of LSW as we type this… :P

Well, then I can't wait for it to come out because there is a gap here for me.  My "stock" pitch shots only go up to about 45-50 yards, and my "full swing" lob wedge goes about 90-95.

 

I will also say, towards @midwestswing 's point about leaving a full swing, that I have a mental block on partial shots to elevated greens.  If I can't see the green because it's up in the air and/or there is a huge bunker lip in the way, partial swings rarely work out too well.

 

Now, I certainly wouldn't choose to lay back to 100 yards if there was little risk in me laying up to 30, 40 or 50 yards ... but if my choice is hitting a 6 iron that will get me to 75 yards, or an 8 iron that will get me to 100 yards ... I still think that, at least for me right now, going full swing 8 iron/full swing sand wedge is going to put me on the green more often than full swing 6 iron/partial swing sand or lob wedge.  That extra 20 yards doesn't seem to gain me much (right now) when I have to hit a finesse shot that I don't practice all that much.

 

So while I subscribe to the theory that we should always try to get it as close as possible to the green on each shot, there are some minor situations where I diverge slightly from the theory. :)

post #23 of 28
We'll have to agree to disagree. I know what works in my game and hope you all can say the same for yours. To the op, maybe give it a shot sometime. If it doesn't help, so what? The swing is a small part of scoring well in this game. Good luck to you!
post #24 of 28

That's why I try to do the one pitch different club thing. I don't want the length of my swing to be the gauge as much as the club.

post #25 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

 

Now, I certainly wouldn't choose to lay back to 100 yards if there was little risk in me laying up to 30, 40 or 50 yards ... but if my choice is hitting a 6 iron that will get me to 75 yards, or an 8 iron that will get me to 100 yards ... I still think that, at least for me right now, going full swing 8 iron/full swing sand wedge is going to put me on the green more often than full swing 6 iron/partial swing sand or lob wedge.  That extra 20 yards doesn't seem to gain me much (right now) when I have to hit a finesse shot that I don't practice all that much.

 

So while I subscribe to the theory that we should always try to get it as close as possible to the green on each shot, there are some minor situations where I diverge slightly from the theory. :)

 

Obviously there's the knowing your current game aspect to things.  I used to be almost exactly in your boat, where I felt really confident over a pitch style swing, and I could put that to ~50 yards at most, and then I felt uncomfortable with a partial full swing instead of a pitch swing and felt very inconsistent from 55-80 yards (about a full swing choked up 60˚ at the time).  But I wonder how much of it was different expectations.  With a full LW or SW, I knew I wasn't going to even be on the green 100% of the time, much less in not super low percentage birdie putt range a high percentage of the time.  Once I got to 65 yards, my expectations shifted to long pitch accuracy, so I'd be really disappointed with results that would have just been fine but meh with a full swing wedge.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave2512 View Post
 

That's why I try to do the one pitch different club thing. I don't want the length of my swing to be the gauge as much as the club.

 

I instead have gotten confident with just using my 60˚ pretty much all the time past the distance I hit it full swing.  But I'm intrigued at this possibility.  I'm definitely less consistent left/right with a 65 yard partial 60˚ than I am with pitch swing from 45 yards.  My short game practice generally is to start hitting my 60˚ with a pitch stroke trying to hit the same place all my BirdieBalls have gathered, 40-45 yards, then picking spots longer and shorter to hit.  Maybe I should spend some practice time hitting that same default pitch swing that gets my 60˚ 40-45 yards with longer clubs...

 

At the very least it would be good to know about how far and how high each of the clubs goes with that swing for recovery shots out of jail under some tree branches.  Going sideways like that I end up short or through the fairway an embarrassing percent of the time.  There's nothing so satisfying as feeling smart for playing it safe and minimizing the risk of worse than bogey and then not leaving yourself an open look at the green for GIR+1 and a two putt bogey :)

post #26 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightEdge View Post
 

Hey guys, I was wondering if anybody could give any advice on an issue I am having.  I played this past weekend at a beautiful golf course and hit good drives and pretty good second shots for the most part.  However my kryptonite reared its ugly head again. Every single time I was left with any shots between say 50 and 70-80 yards to the green I tried to hit a sand wedge in and to date I hit some of the most horrible shots ever seen on a golf course. Skulls, tops, 10 yard chunks etc..  On one hole I hit a good drive on a par 5 and then hit a 3 hybrid to 55 yards short of the green and ended up with an 8 on the hole. That is ridiculous and I seem to just keep doing it over and over and over. I was out driving my friend and playing partner with my 3 hybrid and he used driver and he STILL beat me by 12 strokes! Just plain embarrasing...

 

I use pretty much the same swing for all irons so why can't I hit the sand wedge from the fairway? I line up the face angle the same and I take the same swing so why are the mishits so bad with the sand wedge?  Do I actually need to make a different swing with a sand wedge? I hit my pitching wedge and gap wedge just fine with that same swing. Is it the bounce? Is it the leading edge? I'm baffled.

 

Note:  I am playing Taylormade Burner 2.0 Irons so my pitching and gap wedge's design is much different from the above mentioned Cleveland sand wedge if that matters.

 

Here is the wedge I'm using. 

 

http://www.amazon.com/Cleveland-Golf-Cavity-Black-degree/dp/B0093YZ6CG/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1394553687&sr=8-2&keywords=cleveland+sand+wedge

 

I'm actually having a lesson today specifically on that but I was just wondering if anybody had any advice.

 

Ok so I had my lesson today and man what a difference an experienced instructor makes.  My swing plane was all wrong.  By the way, he told me why my iron shots were so straight on almost every shot.  It was because my swing was really steep and I was basically swinging straight down the line.  The only reason I could get away with it was because I have a high swing speed.  Basically even though I hit my irons an ok distance it would always go very high.  He showed me how to swing on plane with the length of the club and the result was that I get better contact, consistent divots and added distance.  I was using my 9 iron to hit a 125 yard shot before but after the lesson I could hit 125 easy with my gap wedge and even my sand wedge with a hard swing. 

 

I was not really consistent with my 4 iron but I was able to hit that pretty consistent today after the lesson. Now because my swing plane has changed and I'm not as steep, my iron shots are not dead straight all the time. Now they are left or right of the flag but I'm still close enough.

 

So not only did he help me to correct the issue with hitting a sand wedge, he changed my plane and now I'm hitting each iron a little further with better contact. My ball contact even sounds different with the irons.  It used to be like a "whack" now it sounds more like a "whoosh".  Didn't work on my driver swing though.  He had me hit 5 balls with the driver and he said my driver swing was good.  Now all I have to do is practice the drills and burn this new swing into my brain.

post #27 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by RightEdge View Post
 

Now all I have to do is practice the drills and burn this new swing into my brain.

 

Glad to hear you had some success at your lesson. Now read this thread to help you get the most out of your practice time.

post #28 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by geauxforbroke View Post
 

 

Glad to hear you had some success at your lesson. Now read this thread to help you get the most out of your practice time.

Ok I will thanks.

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