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Mock Instructor Trials #002 - Mark - Page 2

post #19 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFan1983 View Post
 

But here's what I need to add to the backswing priorities... meaning what I said about the downswing possibly shouldn't even be brought up to him if this is an evolvr lesson... and if it's just a one hour lesson, it probably should'nt be brought up to him. If it's a clinic, then I think I can tell him about the downswing stuff. 

 

 

Wasn't really any of those, Mark is a friend of my Dad's and a member at our club. As a favor to my Dad I'm helping him out. It was more of a "mini" lesson with supervised practice. During the week I watch him for about 10-20 minutes when I go to the club to practice, usually on Wednesdays after his round.

 

So here is my take.......

 

Mark really struggling with contact about a month and a half ago. From seeing all your responses everyone saw why contact could be a problem. Mark was once a 2, was shooting in the mid-80's when I started helping him and playing much better now. So even though his swing looks all over the place, he does have the ability to find the ball. His move required a lot of timing and any amount I could simplify it would only help. 

 

Mark's wasn't interested in getting too much info and hasn't had many lessons. He's also a guy that doesn't practice much and when he does, there isn't much purpose to it. There is some mobility issues, has some back issues, so it's hard for him to side bend (left shoulder down) on the backswing.

 

Like I said contact is typically average-good but at the time, much worse on the course. Lots of pulls, thin and heavy shots. So definitely looking at Keys 1-3 and after seeing the swing, decided to focus on Key#1.

 

So what did I see? Very much what a lot of you guys saw, head moving up and to the right, shoulders turning too flat, eyes not even looking at the ball at A4. Swing has a "bouncy" look to it. He also has a tendency for the head to translate forward on the downswing to get his "weight" forward. In order to not stick the club in the ground he has to start un-cocking his wrist angles at a faster rate. Lack of Key#3, also leading to path and face issues (Key 4-5). So while he doesn't fully achieve Key 2 and certainly not Key 3, the "culprit" was Key 1 and how the pivot effected the rest of the Keys.

 

After explaining to him the reason he was struggling with low point control I moved on to how to change the picture. I turned both his feet out so the hips could turn steeper. Then I held a club below his left shoulder and told him to feel like the left shoulder traced down the shaft. After some rehearsals he hit some shots. Solid shots right off the bat. He then asked if his left shoulder was going down enough (it was maybe an inch better) and I told him he could max it out and not worry about overdoing it. I also explained there is no "correct" amount, just make it better. So for the next 20 minutes or so all I did was tell him to keep maxing out the feel of the left shoulder, left hip, left knee going DOWN longer on the downswing.

 

Before on the left, after on the right (about three weeks after we first worked together). Just reinforced what I told him initially, pics show he's getting comfortable with the feels.

 

Feet out, knees turned out a bit. Why make golfer harder? ;-)

 

 

Mark showing me his rehearsal/practice move on the right. You can imagine what it felt like to him to get here. Really good stuff.

 

 

Full swing trying to copy the rehearsal feel as much as he can. He can see the ball now!

 

@JetFan1983, you can see how there aren't any pressure points attached, even in the right pic. It's not a big deal IMO. It doesn't hinder his ability to hit it solid. The left arm is lower, right elbow is "flying" less, more of an effect of the steeper pivot. He would have to lift the arms excessively to create some ascent because of how flat the pivot was.

 

 

Head didn't move that much to the right on the before but the left knee would cave in and the head would go up too much. Much more "simple" position on the right, less compensations and timing required to hit the ball solid. Looks grounded and athletic.

Key 2-3 improvements via Key 1....love those ;-) 

 

Higher ball flight and straighter start lines on the right. Obviously better contact.

 

When Mark goes to the range, he makes sure his feet are turned out and that his left side is "bending" as much as he can. Every time he sees me he thinks it's going down enough and I tell him to keep doing it more;-) Like most golfers, there is some regression every time we work together. Like I said earlier, he's not the guy to do many slow practice swings on the range or to practice in front of a mirror at home. I tell him to but it doesn't always happen. So I gotta work with what I've got.

 

Moving forward it will be more of the same and I want to get into making his grip stronger, which a lot of you guys also saw. By stronger I mean more turned clockwise and get the heel pad on top of the grip. Grip is palmy right now and it effects how much he can hinge his wrist and how much "lag" he can produce. 

 

A grip change can be a HUGE thing, especially to a guy that's been playing for 40-50 years with the same grip (I'm assuming). Much bigger change than the Key #1 stuff. 

 

So that's it.......Any questions?

 

post #20 of 27

No questions @mvmac thanks for giving us your perspective. Really, really interesting to hear your take. Fun quiz! 

 

Good point on the hip slants... forgot about that. And I like the way you explained the steep shoulders. 

 

PS- It's interesting to hear about his personality. That'd definitely play a role in the way I would have chosen to communicate the information to him. 

post #21 of 27
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFan1983 View Post

 

 

PS- It's interesting to hear about his personality. That'd definitely play a role in the way I would have chosen to communicate the information to him. 

 

Yes for sure. I think it's pretty common with most golfers. 

 

I like sharing pics of a guy like Mark because it illustrates that we don't teach a swing or a method. If I was teaching a swing, then yes the right arm would have to look different, grip would have to change right away, change the followthrough stuff. Dude might have to quit playing for a few months. When you just focus on a priority piece, the golfer gets better, they can still play golf as they work on their swing and it's still basically their swing with some upgrades. One of the myths about getting lessons is that you start from scratch or something like that

 

Mark's lesson is a also a fun lesson. Tell him to do something as much as he can and his ball striking only gets better. His Key 1 change made immediate improvements to his 2nd and 3rd Keys. One of those lessons that makes you look smarter than you actually are ;-) 

post #22 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvmac View Post
 

 

Yes for sure. I think it's pretty common with most golfers. 

 

I like sharing pics of a guy like Mark because it illustrates that we don't teach a swing or a method. If I was teaching a swing, then yes the right arm would have to look different, grip would have to change right away, change the followthrough stuff. Dude might have to quit playing for a few months. When you just focus on a priority piece, the golfer gets better, they can still play golf as they work on their swing and it's still basically their swing with some upgrades. One of the myths about getting lessons is that you start from scratch or something like that

 

Mark's lesson is a also a fun lesson. Tell him to do something as much as he can and his ball striking only gets better. His Key 1 change made immediate improvements to his 2nd and 3rd Keys. One of those lessons that makes you look smarter than you actually are ;-) 

 I can totally relate to what Mike says. Proof is in the pudding.

post #23 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvmac View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetFan1983 View Post

 

 

PS- It's interesting to hear about his personality. That'd definitely play a role in the way I would have chosen to communicate the information to him. 

 

Yes for sure. I think it's pretty common with most golfers. 

 

I like sharing pics of a guy like Mark because it illustrates that we don't teach a swing or a method. If I was teaching a swing, then yes the right arm would have to look different, grip would have to change right away, change the followthrough stuff. Dude might have to quit playing for a few months. When you just focus on a priority piece, the golfer gets better, they can still play golf as they work on their swing and it's still basically their swing with some upgrades. One of the myths about getting lessons is that you start from scratch or something like that

 

Mark's lesson is a also a fun lesson. Tell him to do something as much as he can and his ball striking only gets better. His Key 1 change made immediate improvements to his 2nd and 3rd Keys. One of those lessons that makes you look smarter than you actually are ;-) 

 

Cool, Mike. OK, so I was right in my initial response, but then I over-thought it and decided to try to change the flying elbow because I felt the arm lift was so excessive -- that didn't change his priorities of a steady head, but I understand how important it is to hold back information, or what exactly are things we don't necessarily need to touch -- hence, why I was hesitant at first to address the elbow and armpit pressure points -- I spoke about it in my video at 4:40.

 

But your guy's "feel practice swing" was exactly what I wanted, so perhaps in person, I would have likely never told him about it. All that said, I definitely just learned something.  

 

Great point on how critical it is to keep the information to a point where the person can still not just play golf, but play better golf. Thanks. And again, that new practice swing you got him to make is great. Great job as usual, Mike. :-)

post #24 of 27
Thread Starter 

Update with Mark. He had been playing good the last few months, consistently shooting in the high 70's. Then traveled for three weeks and didn't touch a club and it all went to hell :doh: When I saw him today he was back to his regular style of rapid fire practice. Not practice swings, just one ball after the other hoping for something good to happen. Filmed about 9 minutes of us working together, a lot of it was just reminding him to make slow practice backswings and to feel his left should go down. As I've said earlier, the good thing with Mark is that only needs to do one thing and he can max it out, he'll never overdo it. He also doesn't need it to be "perfect" to hit it solid.

 

Few issues with Mark:

- He doesn't quite understand how much he needs to practice his move for it to really sink in. A few practice swings here and there ain't gonna do it.

- He is too result oriented and it leads to be try different swing thoughts after every swing

- He's not a stupid monkey. After a solid shot he'll ask me about his wrist hinge or if he's one plane, it's in the video

- He can find something negative in every shot. 

 

Just to go more into being too results oriented. I obviously want players to hit good shots and get better but it can be harmful to base whether the swing was "good" or "bad" depending on what the ball did. Leads to players giving up on what they're working because "this stuff doesn't work anymore". Then they start looking for a quick fix and end up not improving at all or playing worse. So my advice to anyone wanting to get better, identify your priority piece and make that better.

 

post #25 of 27
I didn't look at the answer yet but I would tell him to quit moving his head up and down and get his right arm into his body to start.
post #26 of 27
Thread Starter 

post #27 of 27

Those videos are great, mvmac.  Thanks.

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